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... unless the trophy hunting community cleans up its act. More than anything else: more than canned hunting; more than political correctness; more than the combined efforts of all of the anti-hunting organizations in the world - the one thing that will end hunting in Africa is the public perception of the trophy hunting community as being peopled by a bunch of ignorant, arrogant, obstinant paranoid racists exemplified by the quote below and the many comments in support of it. They are not the face of the trophy hunting community and they do not speak for us. Thank God. Those who do speak for us: people like John Jackson, Ron Thomson, Peter Flack, Craig Boddington, SCI and the DSC should publicly denounce these clowns before they completely destroy the trophy hunting industry and the wildlife and habitat which it protects. Subject quote: "why don't we as forum members drop the politically correct attitude and call this for what it is- a land grab by a few GREEDY BLACKS INTENT ON ENRICHING THEMSELVES and who could care less about wildlife OR LOCAL BLACK TRIBES??? 3 years from now when the Save is a desolate moonscape, these same blacks will still be blaming whitey for the problems THEY CREATED! oh, that's right- keep forgetting- it's the white man's fault..... the hypocrisy here boggles the mind. sure, everyone knows-it is the white man who turned Eden to desert. give me a break!!!! give Africans half a chance and they f--k up a one car funeral procession." | ||
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horseshitt  Birmingham, Al | |||
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Jerry gives a good description of what has been happening in Zim since 2000 and he is a racist? How many farms have to be stolen and destroyed in the name of indenginisation? How can a black African whose ancestory in Zimbabwe may only be one or two generations have the right to steal the property of a fourth generation white African? If these roles were reversed the UN would have sent troops to stop the land takeovers 12 years ago. You are right, the end may be near for Zim, and it will be because of the use of racism by those in power in Zimbabwe. | |||
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SteveGI, I'd actually say the 'subject quote' although politically incorrect, is a fairly accurate statement but if you disagree, perhaps you could tell us if you think the land grabs that have been happening in Zimbabwe in recent(ish) years are justified & if so, would you call them a success & discounting the Lacey Act (if you live in the US) , would you find it acceptable to hunt on such 'liberated' land ? | |||
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STEVE GI - Now you I don't like !!! | |||
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I look at this in a different set of eyes... Have you ever noticed the reservation system in USA and it operates the same way... Land allocations (leases) are give to the tribal member when in power. I think that what the parties are saying is that every one is a racist...you just do not know what it is...stupid individuals.. usually... ones who want what you have with out working for it... sometimes... So when you see your life's work being taken away and there is nothing you can do to stop it. It does not make any difference what skin color the individuals would be you are called a racist if you opposed them...per Steve... Now i wonder someone moved into Steve GI home and moved him out would he be a racist for not letting them have the home...you know they need it Steve... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You've got the strongest hand in the world. That's right. Your hand. The hand that marks the ballot. The hand that pulls the voting lever. Use it, will you" John Wayne | |||
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It always amazes me that people living in nice cushy house,not eating the dog shit knows exactly what it tastes like. | |||
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I am a hunter, and none of the people you listed speak for me. | |||
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Sometimes its not what you say, but how you say it? | |||
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At the risk of sounding rather philosophical, isn't that part of the point of not being politically correct. The comment might be bluntly put but it's not at all inaccurate. Therefore, if the statement is accurate & true, how can it be wrong to make it? | |||
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What Anton said. Dutch | |||
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Now we are getting to the root of PC B.S. Better not to say anything at all because someone, somewhere MAY get offended, even if sppeaking the truth. No way this will fix anything, anywhere
White Mountains Arizona | |||
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Shakari is hitting the nail on the head. I am NOT racist, and have made many friends in Africa, many of whom I communicate with years after the safari, many of whom are black, and I have yet to see one example of an African colony which has become better off after independence. Stick any label on that statement you'd like, it's the truth. Phil Massaro President, Massaro Ballistic Laboratories, LLC NRA Life Member B&C Member www.mblammo.com Hunt Reports- Zambia 2011 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1481089261 "Two kinds of people in this world, those of us with loaded guns, and those of us who dig. You dig." | |||
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Hey SteveGI, what's racist about a true statement? The guy didn't say blacks were inferior to anyone. The ones taking over the Save are just greedy thieves just like you find in all races. | |||
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"seek ye the truth, and the truth shall set you free". Steve, to quote a famous Jack Nicholson movie line- " YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH"..... have you even been to Zimbabwe in the last 10 years? and on the slim off chance that you have- you didn't see the white circus tents set up by the UN/NGO food distribution network to feed the locals people starving under the farm invasion policy?? i have and it makes me weep to see a net food exporter that can now longer feed its own people because of a racist( and according to the Zimbabwe High Court, illegal) theft of farms from their legitimate white owners. good luck with drumming up a lot of sympathy to make me the bad guy for stating facts. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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I think the statement "the end is near" is true if regarding the current state of affairs in sub saharan Africa-heck saharan too White Mountains Arizona | |||
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Are there no greedy people of any other race trying to enrich themselves in Africa? Why is just the black man's fault? Are the chines not greedy and enrichining themselves? Are the Russians not doing it? Are there no people of European descent who are greedy & criminal? In hindsight colonial rule may look romantic and ideal. But the causes and reasons (quite differnt in their very essence) of today's problems are closely intertwined. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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last i heard, no Chinese or Russians had invaded/stolen any farms/conservancies. of course, if you know differently, please enlighten us. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Food for thought:
Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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The editing job above puts it very clear and will stop the whining by those who were calling it racist. | |||
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THAT is the crux of the argument & the FACT is that ALL the bad policies that are affecting Zimbabwe (which is the country under discussion) are being implemented & enforced SOLELY by black men. I'm not suggesting that ALL black men/people are at fault just that all of the men/people who are at fault (in this case) are black. And quite honestly, the same statements can be applied to pretty much every African country. As I've said before, there are black people/leaders that do have their heads screwed on right & are shrewd & intelligent such as Tutu, Mandela & Ramaphosa but the real truth is, they're FAR from average. I appreciate it's not politically correct to point that out but it's the cold hard truth. | |||
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Steve GI and/or Naki, Please explain to me what was wrong/bad about Rhodesia under colonial rule and then under independent government with Ian Smith in the lead. List me about 10 things please. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Everyplace run by black people, from Zimbabwe to Detroit, becomes a dystopic nightmare of poverty, crime and misery. If you know any examples otherwise I'd be glad to hear about them. | |||
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Chicago? Sorry I just crack myself up sometimes... | |||
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Good day, Gentlemen: I put the following on another thread a few days ago and it may be more appropriate here. As a school teacher for my career I had to tread lightly on any issues dealing with race. Being a hunter and NRA member I already had the administration looking down at me. I also had my share of, "You gave me a bad grade because I'm black" crap from students and their parents. I worked the truth into my Africa lessons thusly: I asked the students to come up with a list of identifiers of civilization and write them on the board. They would write things such as: education, health care, life expectancy, infrastructure, use of natural resources, civil rights, laws, courts, economy, and many more. Then I would make three columns on the board which where headed as: Before Colonialism--Colonial Period--Majority Rule or Post Colonial Period. Of course, the Before column was zero--basically a stone age continent. A little research and some assistance from my several trips there filled in the colonial column. Then the kids (black, white, Asian, Hispanic and most from liberal back grounds) researched and completed the post colonial column. In the words of Gomer Pile, "Surprise, Surprise, Surprise." The truth about tribalism and the failure of majority rule manifested itself. I did get a few complaints, yes: parents angered I would disrespect the "motherland" by teaching such matters. I correctly pointed out I didn't teach anything--no outcomes--it was the students who taught themselves via their own research. Life expectancy in Zim has fallen from 63 to 39 (and it is not all AIDS), we all know about the economy, the joke of the court system, etc. In a situation such as above, one can't argue with the truth. For what it's worth, gents. Cheers, Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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"give Africans half a chance and they f--k up a one car funeral procession." How is that not offensive? If its somehow just 'speaking the truth', why bother to be considerate of ANYONE'S feelings before you open your mouth? 'Speaking the truth' in this way will not set you free, it will only incite and inflame. How is that a good thing? | |||
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Adam I assume you are a white African and take offense at being "lumped in"? White Mountains Arizona | |||
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I'm a white African (an Afrikaner) but my gripe is not being "lumped in" with anyone - I just question the wisdom of anybody who profess to speak these 'great truths'. | |||
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You seriously need to start looking towards your future. Things are not looking too rosy in your part of the world either. | |||
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SteveGI, your post is a very accurately written description of your opinion! Having said that in my opinion the only thing wrong with it is it is WRONG! Your post will do more harm to legal hunting world wide that all the true stories of BLACK invasions and murders of white people in Africa simply because they are WHITE and have something they WANT than all the LIES you want people to speak.
Andrew, your editing of that original quote is nothing more than a politically correct description of groups that are membered by all BLACK people. What is different between your edited version and SteveGis posting of the quote? The answer is political correctness! IMO if people are offended by being called black, that is their problem! I'm not offended by being called white, or Irish, American because all those things are TRUE! In my opinion politically correctness has caused more strife than the TRUTH will ever cause. I will say that the colonial period worked very well, and when the countries were given back to the black citizens it was done wrong IOM. The way it was done caused the strife we see today in most BLACK ruled Africa. What I mean by this is, the borders of the colonial countries were artificial borders, that when repatriated by tribal societies caused an inequity in rule among the different tribes. Who ever was in rule tended to give everything his tribe and nothing to the other tribes. The land involved should have been put back into tribal lands with each chief in charge of his own land the way it was before colonization. The making of one tribe in charge of all tribes was a real mistake and colonization was not the problem, but the ending of colonization and improper assigning of power to only the tribe of the new president. With the way it was done colonization was better for ALL blacks, not just one tribe. Hunting has nothing to do with this problem it is a corrupt government that tends to amass fabulous wealth for a few individuals and nothing for the rest of the population white or black, is the problem. ................Wait till I get my foxhole dug!  .........................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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And I suppose that gives us another good example of why political correctness is wrong and the blunt truth must be right. Here we have Adam, a white Afrikaaner who is as African as any black man. His race developed RSA into a highly efficient, well run & productive country that had a good infrastructure and a strong economy & I guess he has a right to object to the expression "give Africans half a chance and they f--k up a one car funeral procession." Sooooooo where the f**k does that leave us?   | |||
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The problem with these sort of discussions is that you always have that group that basically insinuates that the blacks are genetically inferior to whites. And they are not. The fact is that culturally they have been brought from the stone age to the modern era in less than 100 years. Thier culture, and various traditional hang ups have held them back. And culture is a tough nut to crack. The fact that almost all african independence movements were socialist in origin is also proving to be a huge handicap. So you combine cultures that for various reasons the people have a hard time taking the 'long-view' when it comes to life and combine it with communism - and modern africa is what you get. Same thing applies to anywhere else, like chicago for instance... except those results are almost entierly socialist in origin. You then have those guys that love to haul out the debunked racial IQ studies. Which actually to a degree prove my point. Asians have the consistently highest test results. But it is the western nations that have ruled the global roost for the last few hundred years. Why? Thier (eastern) culture and acceptance of socialism have held them back. And why are countries like china now starting to come into thier own? By the acceptance of certain western cultural values into thier society, like capitalism, and personal freedom. (to varying degrees) Low time preference cultural thinking and the indoctrination of socialist thought for the last 60 years or so is the real reason Africa is getting so "stuffed-up" as it is. We must remeber that socialism is a very seductive doctrine, and very difficult to combat or get rid of. And the western nations are starting to feel the effects of adopting varying degrees of socialist policies. When your culture and political institutions drift away from the doctrine of personal freedom and individual self-reliance, you are starting the slow slide into the abyss. . | |||
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If this is true as you state...then answer the below question.
Your second quote is 100% correct and well documented in history. But it is contradictory of your first opinion in the first quote above and begs a question. If Black (Native) Africans were not genetically inferior as a race...why had they not progressed past the stone age at a time when Europe was into the modern era a couple of centuries and had entered the industrial era by the late 18th century? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Good question LEDVM. . | |||
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What do genetics have to do with social progress? Your question above can be be reworded to "if Europeans were not genetically inferior as a race...why had they not figured out the cause and cure of bubonic plague when around the same time Baghdad was thriving as a center of commerce and learning?" or couple of dozen other ways. Would Lane Easter of circa. 1350 make the same comment? Religious and political ideologies, tribe dynamics, history, language and culture all play an important role in the development of societies and can be great hurdles in the way of progress. It has very little to do with genetics. How would you explain the vast divide between the progress of North and South Korea and a huge difference between the living standards? Surely you can't attribute it to genetics. How about the explosive social and economic development seen in China and India in the past 15 years? Have they gotten genetically better in that short period of time? The price of knowledge is great but the price of ignorance is even greater. | |||
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Just a thought. It is now generally accepted that mankind hatched in Southern Africa and then spread throughout the world over a period of, give or take, eighty thousand years. Over that period, the rest of humankind developed building skills, medicin, mathematics, agriculture and astronomy. Around four to three hunred years ago, European explorers, [the first of the bloody colonialists] pitched up for a look around. Guess what, they found nothing. Over the preceeding eighty-odd thousand years, f#*k all had happened. Damn!! | |||
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Your question above can be be reworded to "if Europeans were not genetically inferior as a race...why had they not figured out the cause and cure of bubonic plague when around the same time Baghdad was thriving as a center of commerce and learning?" or couple of dozen other ways. Had anyone figued out bacteriology at that time??? NO! If the people of Bagdad at that time had the ability to view, culture, and kill bacteria...I would say they were genetically superior...but they didn't. ================================================ They hadn't even figured out a way to dispose of waste and sewage, something that Indus valley civilizations had discovered 5000 years prior. Also at the time of the golden age of Middle East, the medical discoveries made by their scientists and surgical procedures perfected by them would make Europe look like uncivilized land of savages May be you did not understand my point. I said precisely the same thing that political ideology can be the determining factor in the progress of a society not genetics As far as oppression changing the genetics overtime, you have lost me there. How come hundreds of years of oppression in Europe didn't make the European genetics inferior? The price of knowledge is great but the price of ignorance is even greater. | |||
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This very question is answered in my first post... Thier traditional cultural beliefs and mores held them back. Asian consistently test higher, so according to your beliefs they should have always been superior. But admiral perry had to drag the japanese into the 1800's by gunpoint - the japanese were still living at a feudal level of civilisation when we were crossing the globe in steam powered ships. And they test with higher IQ's than caucasians How were they Chinese with thier superior IQ test scores economically dominated for so long by the "intelectually inferior" caucasans? In fact they were only able to expell the "inferior" foriegners around the turn of the last century, and only now within the last 20 years have become an economic powerhouse of note. In both cases thier cultural traditions held them back - and in both cases they only started to compete with the west when they adopted some of the western cultural ways. | |||
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