Just got an e-mail from a booking agent and here are some of the hutns listed. Sure makes most of Africa look like a real bargain.

(1) Trophy hunts for Boone & Crockett Antelope and Elk are still available for
the 2005 season in New Mexico. Antelope hunts are $4250.00
and Elk hunts start at $9500.00

(2) Western Alaska Brown Bear hunts from $11,400.00

(3) Alaskan Mixed Bag hunts from $17,200.00

(4) Canadian Moose hunts from $7500.00

(5) Alaskan Brown Bear hunts in the South East from $9950.00

(6) Alaska Peninsula Brown Bear hunts from $15,000.00

Notice the prices say "from" and "start at"...wow!

Bill,

This is nothing compared to some of the European prices asked for certain animals.

They charge you more as the trophy gets bigger.

Let's see...
Elk for $9500.00 or Cape Buffalo for $9500???...

... Cape Bufflo!

Mixed bag for $17K or Elephant for 17K???...

... Elephant!

That didn't take long at all.

Alaskan hunting has been way overpriced for years. And elk is way overpriced too. Some places try to get a lot of cash out of a deer or antelope hunt, but most guys are smart enough not to waste their money on such foolishness.

I keep telling people that I cannot afford to hunt in North America anymore.

For the $10,000 I might spend in NA, all I am sure of, is a wet ass and a horse back ride.

Saeed,

You've mentioned this a couple of times and I just want you to know that not everywhere uses a sliding scale. It is usual on Roe but for red stags it is usually a set rate regardless of trophy size.

It's also the case that most of what stalkers will in the wild is not going to be trophy size, so it would be unfair for them to have to pay the same for all animals. If a stalker on the hill puts you onto a stag you really are expected to shoot it, whereas in Africa you can pass up all the animals you see ina week if nothing is good enough for what you want.

I don't nkow if you have tried it but you should give it a go over here, and if you shoot a gold medal RoeBuck, (Which according to your legendary status here you will find two standing broadside next to each other in the first morning!!) It will be a trophy worth paying for. Afterall who wants to pay £800+ for a cull buck.

If you ever change your mind just let me know.

Regards,

FB

On the other hand, add in $1500.00-2500.00 for RT airfare to Africa, fees for dipping and packing of trophies, trophy shippment costs, 6 months to 2 years to receive your trophies, passport fees, shots, curios etc and suddenly a 10k hunt in in Tanzania costs close to 20k and Alaskan bear hunt looks reasonable. Not that it will stop me from returning to Africa, but hunting is expensive everywhere and Africa is not immune.

Unfortunately, the law of supply and demand apply--we seem willing to pay those high prices for an Alaskan hunt so the outfitters will continue to raise their prices until they start having open spaces on their schedules.

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:
Saeed,

I don't nkow if you have tried it but you should give it a go over here, and if you shoot a gold medal RoeBuck, (Which according to your legendary status here you will find two standing broadside next to each other in the first morning!!) It will be a trophy worth paying for. Afterall who wants to pay £800+ for a cull buck.

If you ever change your mind just let me know.

Regards,

FB

EXCUSE ME! 800 for a cull buck? Who wants to pay 800 for ANY buck????????????, when that 800 would almost pay for a Cape Buffalo,in Africa, and the daily lodgeing fees are a lot cheaper than anything in England, while airfare is the same to both places from the USA.

I hear people tell people at the booths at hunting shows they can't afford to hunt Buffalo. In the next breath they say, "I GUESS I'LL JUST GO ELK HUNTING IN THE USA"! In most cases a short Cape Buffalo hunt will cost you less than an elk hunt in the USA, and as Terry says all that gurantees you is a wet ass,and a horseback ride in the rain!

Gentlemen, Africa is the best bargain in the hunting world, and it is the penicle of the hunting game! Damned if I'm going to pay $3000 to hunt a goaty old deer,or $12000 + airfare for an elk, when I can hunt cape buffalo for under $10K, including airfare!

Fallow Buck - what determins a gold medal head Roe buck for the extra fee?

MacD37, is that Elk hunt a self guided and camped hunt (do your own cooking etc) they are talking about or a fully guided hunt in the Gila? I have friends from here in the east that hunt Elk every year on public ground in Colo and stay in a cheap motel and do their own cooking damn cheap. To these guys the cost of African or fully packaged western hunt is a bit pricey.

All that said I haven't hunted the Rockies since I discovered Africa and the rest of the world. That dosen't mean I won't some day, just not right now.

Hey DB I need to jack up my antelope prices, I'm still charging $2250 in NM and we shoot some 17 inchers every year...

Still got 4 spots left if anyone is interrested.

So the only way to hunt is being led around by a guide? I'm quite sure that your "affordable" cape buffalo hunt would pay for my elk, deer, and antelope hunting for years.

Its funny the first safari I took to R.S.a. in 1999 the one P.H. stated that he could no longer afford to hunt in his own country.I told him the same went for me and thats why I was in south africa.

Ralphie, now you can't hunt in Wy that is home or you can't hunt public ground.

Why can't we compare apples to apples, not apples to peanuts?

Die Ou Jagter,

I'm not sure I understand your post. Are you saying for me to pretend that I cannot hunt in Wyoming or public ground? Well when I lived in Oregon, Idaho, and Utah I hunted just fine. I even went to Colorado and S. Dakota too. There is a horde of public land to hunt.

There is no excuse for not hunting elk, deer, and antelope if you can afford even one trip to Africa. You DON'T have to hire an outfitter. Actually one reason I'll probably never go to Africa is because I don't like the idea of being guided. That might be biased though by my low income. I realize you guys are comparing guided hunts, but some of the statements came off as if that was the only way to hunt. Sorry if I interpreted them incorrectly.

Ralphie, no not the only way to hunt. I don't use a guide to hunt here in Pa. When I hunt unfamilar ground I prefer a guide (real guide not some drug store cowboy with a 4X4) because I only have a week or so and I prefer not to spend a day or so learning the lay of the land. If I lived in a western state and had the time to pre-season scout the area I would be hunting then it is a diferent can of beans.

First off, those prices are on the high end. If we looked at Africa, and compared, I'm sure we could find some hunts a lot higher or lower than others, just like here.

As Ray said, he has hunts priced WELL below the examples given.

Then as someone else mentioned, add in all the "extras" that are actually "necessities" for Africa, and the gap closes more.

And yes, before someone thinks it's out of reach for me, or jealousy, or whatever, I could afford Africa financially if I wanted to, I guess my priorities are just set differently.

Finally, call me crazy, but I really have no desire to hunt Africa. (Actually, I kinda do, only for plains game, but don't see myself going through it any time soon. To me, it's more money & hassle than it's worth, TO ME...). Hunting "closer to home" holds a lot more appeal for me. (Closer to home means almost anywhere in the US).

I'm more comfortable hunting by myself or a close friend (mainly my dad), casually and comfortably, than in a camp with "staff" and all.

I'd rather whack a big bull elk than a buffalo any time...

Like I said, call me crazy, but that's ME.

Prices for hunts are going up world wide and this tendency shows every sign of continuing. Hunting is more and more becoming a sport of the Elite. There is a way that to get around this and make money instead of spend it, but of course like most things this requires an investment. If you buy the land and run cattle on it you get an income from the cattle, profits from land prices going up every year and income from hunts you can sell on that land. Two of my clients who are also members of my hunting club are buying a $1,000,000 ranch in Patagonia for just these reasons. It has mountain red stag hunting and trout fishing and is less than an hour from a ski resort. Even if your pockets are relatively shallow you can still do this for half that price. I don't know if the same can be done in Africa but in Argentina it's a great business opportunity with fringe benefits.

For a real shock check out the prices of a Bighorn sheep hunt in BC....$25,000 USD for a 14 day hunt is not uncommon. Stone sheep are up in the $20,000 USD range too...

...unless you are a resident of course. A $40 licence and a $50 tag will get you started. Living in BC is a wonderful thing.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

...unless you are a resident of course. A $40 licence and a $50 tag will get you started. Living in BC is a wonderful thing.

Cheers,
Canuck

Think I would rather live in the Great State of Texas and pay the higher fees! Not sure you are getting a bargain there Canuck!!

Gentlemen, you are missing the point! Maybe I'm not makeing myself clear, however. I don't think you can compare a self guided/outfitted elk hunt with a profesionally outfitted elk hunt. That is, unless you have horses, wall tents, and a week to pack all that stuff into the back country before the hunt starts.

I don't think it is fair either to compare a self guided hunt any place for anything with a hunt that requires guiding/outfitting by law, as is the case for Africa, or for aliens in Canada. Addtionally of the self guided Elk hunts, I would say the ratio of TROPHY ELK taken on a self guided hunt, would be 1/10 the result from a guided elk hunt, and what about the guy who lives in some big city in the east, how is he going to get a camp into the back country of Idaho, with a rented Astrovan? Unless you are lucky enough to live in one of the elk states, one almost has to book an outfitted hunt if Elk are in the cards. I was lucky enough to live in as good hunting country as there is in the USA, and elk hunting was a chore to simply get my camp into the back country, that I knew like the back of my hand. I certainly think it would be harder for someone who had never been there!

That is my whole point why pay a guide to hunt deer, when in New Mexico alone there is 36 million acres of public land to hunt, and it includes elk, black bear, and turkeys, besides Mule deer, and whitetail. The take will be low on ELK, and smaller on black bear, than it will on deer, but the time you spend hunting will be in most cases elbow to elbow with other hunters, rideing little noisey 4 wheelers. Not an ideal sittuation for ELK, or bear.

For the same money it takes for outfitted elk hunt, in an area that gives you a decent chance of baging a real trophy elk,(ONE ANIMAL, license, & Tags will set you back the greater part of $1000+travel expences, on top of the cost of the booking) In African you are getting six or seven hunts (6 or seven animals) for the same price that you get one for ELK, at oe nere the same price. you can book a six animal plains game hunt with all the cooking, laundry, and transportation from airport, back to the airport provided. Or a short Buffalo hunt for one Buffalo, and couple plains game animals. Simply because a hunt is so-called GUIDED, doesn't mean you don't have to hunt! These animals are not tied to trees, here or in Africa.

I hunted public land all my life in the western USA,Alaska, and Canada, and in all that time I never saw one Cape Buffalo, Eland, Lion, Leoapard, Impala, warthog, sittunga, Puku, Rhino, hippo,Kudu, jackle, bushbuck, croc, or any of the things that are on a general license in Africa, where the trophy fees are only paid when you take the animal. How many times have any of you gone on EVEN a guided Elk hunt, and came back with an Elk of any sort? I'd say on the self guided ELK hunt the avreage is one for every ten hunts, for most folks, and some like a couple guys I know who have been going to Colorado on self guided hunts for 30 yrs, and two of them still have never shot an elk. How much money do you think those two have spent on their self guided hunts without results?

As long as we are free to hunt as we choose, there will be hunting for everyone, the way he likes it, and the way he can afford, and that is the way it should be in a free society. IMO, however, I simply don't see the ecconomic sense in spending 10 or 12 thousand dollars to hunt one animal that you pay for the tags, and license whether you bag or not, and usually not!

All I'm saying is, if you want to hunt Africa, you can, and as cheaply as a guided ELK or Deer hunt, with far more results! It's simply up to you to decide what you want, and can be satisfied with. For me, I've hunted about everything North America has to offer, much of it on my own, eating out of a can sitting on a rock in the rain, and those are great memories, but nothing can compare to Africa, and the night sounds of lion roaring his ownership of the bush for everyone in hearing to listen to! There are only three sounds in North America that stir my soul, and that is the howel of the timber wolf, the buegle of a bull elk, or the snuffeling, and grunting of a big brown bear sniffing the side of you tent in the night. I would say those three sounds are things that most avid hunters of NA, have never heard, but that old lion is something that every hunter that has made it to the dark contenant, has heard many times!

Folks put that elk hunt asside and join us in the African bush to hunt the big black Cape Buffalo Bulls, it will burn a tunnel through you soul, and form an addiction that ony more Africa can satieate! Make no mistake, haveing a guide(PH) will not keep that bull off your back. In all cases, you are alone when he comes boiling out of the thorn. When he hits the ground ten paces off the barrel of you rifle, you wouldn't trade that buffalo for a train load of ELK, or deer!

Mac, I don't know how you could have put it any more realistically or clearly than that. No matter how you sort the dollars, Africa is the best hunting buy in the world, and Europe the biggest ripoff.

The U.S. is getting there, but a major part of the problem is that N. American outfitters simply don't have the number of huntable animals or the variety of species that Africa offers, yet outfitters have to eat, buy equipment and insurance, exhibit at shows to attract business, and somehow survive until the next season. So they have to charge more on a per-animal basis in order to stay afloat. It's a tough business with a high casualty rate, and it's getting tougher every year. Alaska, especially, is an expensive place to operate out of, period.

AD

Folks,

How about hunting is expensive period?? If you want a particular animal you can afford it or not and you make your decision to hunt or not based on that. The highly prized animals anywhere with the top operators are very expensive.

Personally I think Africa is only a better deal if you are talking plains game and maybe buffalo. Then we are only talking about the amount of shooting you get for the buck.

Comparing NA to Africa is like comparing apples to oranges. They are both good but quite different.

Regards,

Mark

To me, this isn't as ridiculous as some of these guys paying 25,000.00 for a whitetail within a high fenced area.

There oughta be a $5.00 find for whining on this board...

You think hunting is expensive, then try keeping me in golf balls!

The my latest hobby, team roping, I bought a $10,000 horse a $10,000 horse trailer, another ten grand or so in needed assesories, won $34.00 the other night but it was a mistake and I had to give it back!! Had to sell two nice English double rifles to buy my grandkids a couple of good rope horses, that hurt but they are sure enough worth it...

I say go for the gold, you can't take it with you and when you get down on the cost of hunting go buy a tank of gas, that helps!! I have spent a bloody fortune on hunting, and I have no regrets...then there is that big $40,000 car you drive and that $500,000 home you live in, cut both those costs in half and you you live just as well and you can hunt all you want the rest of your life...

Yes, hunting has gone up an its expensive, but you tell me what isn't....

I'm not sure it is quite "fair" to compare a brown bear hunt to a Cape Buffalo hunt. If you look at the stature of the Brown Bear or the various sheep species in North America, seems a more valid comparison in Africa would be an Elephant, Mountain Nyala or Bongo hunt in Africa. When comparing those, the BB or sheep hunts seem not so bad.

A 10 or 14 day BB or Dall Sheep hunt usually runs license and tag fees plus about what comes to $750-1K a day daily rate. A much better price than Marco Polo sheep or Altai Argali.

Plane fare is cheaper too.

And when you think about it hunting isn't really about the animals or the locations or the fees or the braggin rights. Its about sitting under a tree and falling asleep and waking to find two young does intently watching you sleep from ten feet away, Its about the sunset over the desert and listening to the cayote call on the hillside as if to say
"I'll be here tomarrow, how about you?"
Isn't it about hearing the crackle of the fire and the song of loon out over the lake, or the owl in the tree above you. And have you ever heard a big cat scream in middle of the night just when you were about to drift off to sleep; and you caught yourself still listening for him an hour later.

I personally love the idea of hunting. I love the idea of shooting and if I don't take away from from family I will do anything it takes to spend another day out there, doing that!
From the tenor of these posts there are a lot of very intense hunters in this crowd. The kind of place I like to be because every little spark sends me back to the days and nights I've spent hunting for deer and bear and elk and other North American game and every little spark sends me dreaming about the next part of the Adventure yet to come in Africa.
Frank

I enjoy hunting Africa, but it doesn't stop me from hunting the rest of the world too.

MacD 37,

I never said £800+ for a cull buck. My intention was to say that without a sliding scale the majority of hunters would be paying an "Averaged Up" price to shoot the same cull deer that they can now take for £100. That is if there was not surplus fee for a "Trophy" Buck.

My point is that for me the enjoyment is in the hunt. Some of the best stalkds I have had have been on does or prickets and in some cases I have not even taken a shot.

I think an interesting point is that for me to come and hunt Whitetail in the US it ioos really only possible if I pay the prices of an outfitter.

If you came to the UK I think you could get much cheaper stalking. There are several options. Someone mentioned accomodation. A cottage that can be rented for a week will cost under £500 and sleep 4 people. If you take 5-8 stags in a week between you at £300 each and a hire car for a week you will have a holiday for under £2k plus air fairs assuming there are a couple of you. If you come and do the hinds you can cut that in half almost. or fuurther reduce it by taking Roe deer which will start at £100 each.

The other alternative is to come to my areas and shoot Fallow/Roe and Munjac. Morning and evening stalks for £120-150/day including upto 5 deer for the week with B+B at £40/day you are looking at about £1k for 5-6 days shooting with all transport included. The only extras are your meals in the evening and a few beers.

The list is endless but that is the beauty of a place like this where we can all benefit from eachothers local knowledge.

Die Ou Jagter,

Heads are scored according to mass lengthe points pearlig and colour and symetry. Those that shoot medal heads know more about this than I do. I have passed up deer that are this good because I don't want to remove them from the herd.

I'm sure some of the guys in the European forum can help explain the measuring process to you better than I can.

Regards,
FB

DB: Most of the costs you listed for Alaskan hunts are quite modest....moose hunts are $12,000 or more, brown bear hunts less than $10K are cheap and you may have to go on two of these hunts to actually tag a bear...if you want to hunt really big bears, $15 to $20,000 will buy you a 14 day ticket (again two hunts may be required). Sheep hunting is even in the $10K range...but, There are plenty of $20,000 hunts up here...and when I go on my own hunts, bust my ass, spent $3000 on a charter plane, haul $3000 worth of gear around, and get back out again....I simply love it. When I look at Africa it is expensive (I already have been once), but it is not that expensive. If Africa was not on the other side of the earth, I could save 4K just in travel costs. There are few things more exciting and tough than chasing brown bears and everyone should give it a shot...I hope hunting Cape buffalo is just as exciting. I want a stone sheep, and as Canuck said, it is $20K and risky. Polar bears are even more demanding and expensive. But so what? It is all exciting. Once I get that taste in my mouth and the adrinaline is there, how can you not go? Anyone who has not hunted in Alaska must do so....this place is changing. The cost of any of the hunts listed above are less that the cost of a used car. If you bought a 40K truck you could go and shoot really big game, like lions in Africa. I would much rather have a lion than a truck (I have a truck).

rwj....don't doubt the prices are representative of the going rate for a good hunt and I didn't post it to slam either those charging it or those paying it...just an observation on my part. It does, however, make me happy that I had the opportunity to hunt/fish Alaska while I was stationed at Elmendorf....2 big brownies, 3 moose over 60", 4 black bear, + several large caribou and all on a Captain's pay.

like many of you I've hunted thruout the world, elk in Mongolia,red stags in NZ,bears in Ak, DG & PG in Africa. None of it was or is getting any cheaper.
I laugh at booking agents whom tell people they can hunt Africa for PG cheaper than a good elk hunt in NA, sure the daily fees and trophy fees can be had for a 10 day PG safari for the same price as a good elk hunt but the agents ALWAYS omit saying it costs double to get to Africa, shipping trophies home is unreal, shots, medical insurance,etc. add up quickly too!
Will I continue to head over across the pond......yup1 long as I can, then I'll sell one of these homes my wife insits we keep and keep going! Wyn

$40,000 cars, 500,000 homes? I thought I was out of my element in this forum and now I know that I am!

Ralphie, haven't you ever traveled in the Jackson area?

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
There oughta be a $5.00 find for whining on this board...



I have no regrets...then there is that big $40,000 car you drive and that $500,000 home you live in, cut both those costs in half and you you live just as well and you can hunt all you want the rest of your life...

....

Ray, I'm with you.

I live in and OLD house, drive a car with 133,000 miles on it. Owe nobody anything, and hunt 40 days a year in Africa.

What a way to go.

Damn Terry quit lording it over us po folk who can only do 10 to 15 days a year in Africa.

Die Ou Jagter,


I sure have, but I KNOW I'm out of my element there.

The goods news is I get to hunt any day I want I just walk out the back door. It sure isn't for Buffalo and brownies, but I sure love calling in coyotes.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Damn Terry quit lording it over us po folk who can only do 10 to 15 days a year in Africa.

Do ya know why I only hunt 40 days there a year? Because I can't afford 41.

wynwood,
I doubt seriously that any legitamate booking agent ever told you such a line of crap as that, I know I havn't, don't know any that would....To start with its your place to look into these matters and make those determinations. Surely you would not do otherwise...

If you talk to a legitamate booking agent he will tell you exactly what any hunt is going to cost you damn near to the penny...then you can take it or leave it, simple as that...

I don't intend to get ugly in a post, but come on keep to the facts, not what you assume..be fair is all I ask...

I can send you on a 5 to 7 day safari for the cost of some Idaho elk hunts and get you 3 to 5 head of game, including airfare .....I can also send you on a 10 day 7 or 8 head of game for the cost of a Mule Deer hunt, some fenced elk hunts or some whitetail hunts and include your airfare....

Care to make a wager? If I lose you go free, if I win you book a 10 days PG Safari..

quote:

Originally posted by wynwood:
like many of you I've hunted thruout the world, elk in Mongolia,red stags in NZ,bears in Ak, DG & PG in Africa. Wyn

No you haven't. You're an internet fraud.