Bryan C.,,Ken Moody,L.Sellers,Lion Hunter & Dave Fulson

You guys are spot on correct.

I went to a meeting last Wed. afternoon for vendors featuring a blue ribbon committee comprised of: 2 Freemen people,2 SCI persons,2 Mandalay Bay men and one person from city of LV.

The chocolate covered tripe presented to us as advantage was insulting thinly disguised and juvenile. The costs to the vendors are going to be steep. I made 3 pages of notes on the meetings.Not one positive item to members and vendors. The only advantage (SCI) will be several hundred more booths at great expense to vendors and attendees.
After lengthy introduction of panel and a Power Point presentation there was a short invitation, by the SCI moderator, for the attendees to ask questions. However there was no break for the crowd to ask questions as the moderator ground on and started thanking us for attending and what appeared to me a clear attempt to end the meeting with out addressing our questions. Then several attendants stood taking control with questions and would not allow for this obvious manipulation.
The panel making the presentation and answering questions were very skilled at putting off questions and expert evasion. About half the vendors in attendance left in disgust before meeting ended.
A woman from Freeman told the crowd something like .. SCI members should be proud as the SCI people are shrewed at the bargaining and we should be proud... or words to that effect. I would call it " a KY application after the penetration".

The SCI people were presented questions that admittedly they had no idea or even consideration as to issues presented or asked by some vendors regarding costs ,logistics etc. This was after the shrewed negotiation compliment.



"The problem I am hear about Vegas is it will be very expensive to have a booth and most convention workers are union which will cost a ton of money" ---Brian Clarke

"Exhibitors are not happy for the very reason you mentioned. It's a union show which means you can't even set up your own booth and must pay a union man to hang photos, plug in your lights, etc." --Ken Moody

Guess who will eventually and ultimately pay that cost? Sound like sort of like osama bama care?
I am sure most of have seen the movie Casino. I am not sure who is least trustworthy. At least in Casino we knew they were all crooks.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:


It's not that simple for exhibitors however if they should choose to "sit it out" in LV they would lose all their accumulated points and maybe put at the bottom of the list for reinstatement. Wouldn't think many would consider this a viable option.

No Larry, it is possible to sit-out for a year (maybe two??) and not loose your points.

I have been considering this very option this week.... but at the end of the day clients want to see us face-to-face and we will be forced to go to Vegas.

Not very happy about it but we must...

The simple fact that SCI is moving alternately back to Reno, proves that they only really care about the money generated. Otherwise they would be staying in Vegas, if the move to Vegas was to 'better' the show. Sad fact but we will still support them...

and all of this shit surprises anyone?? FOLLOW THE MONEY- SCI can get another 250-300 exhibitors at $1000 to 4000 per booth. why would they care what it cost exhibitors? the very thought the that you have to pay a union member to set up your booth is insulting. until this year i have helped a friend set up his booth( actually 3 adjoining booths) and break it down for 10 years and we always managed it quite well without paying off the teamsters or any other bunch of crooks. it's all about GREED!!!!!

Matt - Thanks for the clarification on the exhibitors NOT losing their points if they set out a year or so. At least that's somewhat of a buffer and option if one chooses to do so.

It's a dammed if you do dammed if you don't situation, but see and agree with your point on really needing to have a presence in LV.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:


It's not that simple for exhibitors however if they should choose to "sit it out" in LV they would lose all their accumulated points and maybe put at the bottom of the list for reinstatement. Wouldn't think many would consider this a viable option.

No Larry, it is possible to sit-out for a year (maybe two??) and not loose your points.

I have been considering this very option this week.... but at the end of the day clients want to see us face-to-face and we will be forced to go to Vegas.

Not very happy about it but we must...

The simple fact that SCI is moving alternately back to Reno, proves that they only really care about the money generated. Otherwise they would be staying in Vegas, if the move to Vegas was to 'better' the show. Sad fact but we will still support them...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Obviously the three or four people you talked to at the Show are greatly outnumbered. Look around here and you will see that. France rates right up there as a $h&$ hole designation for a lot of folks. Enjoy Vegas, you seem the type, even if I have no idea who you are. It's only temporary so make the best of it.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Thank you for your kind words Larry your a class act.

Personally I wish the show would stay in Reno as it is only 40 miles from my home.
I spoke to a number of vendors concerning this issue. None of the vendors I spoke to were in favor of moving to Las Vegas. All but one was planning to attend the LV show simply because it was to big of a show with so many consumers to miss. They said that SCI was charging $300 more per booth for the Vegas show and would have another 350 booth spaces to sell. I'm wondering what happens to those 350 vendors when they move back to Reno in 2013. Like many of you have already said, the unions and cost of Las Vegas are also main concerns of theirs. Hopefully it won't be as bad as they fear. Some also had concerns that all the activities and entertainment Vegas offers could keep consumers away from the convention.
Some of the consumers I spoke to liked Vegas as it would be easier and cheaper to fly into and would have more to offer in entertainment. Others, like me do not like Vegas.

I went to the meeting as well. I've found it costs us about 30% more every time the show is at Las Vegas and don't like having to mess with the Union thugs there. I PUSH BACK and they usually leave me alone but with my pop up 20 foot booth I'm small potatos for them. I want to make a prediction here. I already know exhibitors who are NOT planning to go to LV. I'm predicting that the 2014 show scheduled to again be in LV will NOT be but instead will stay in RENO.

to Las Vegas!

Rich Elliott

It seems a lot of outfitters responding. I wonder what the attendee's think? I know i can get a much cheaper flight from my home in the midwest to Vegas than i can to Reno. No doubt about it.

I have probably been to vegas at least once a year for the past 25 years,, it is a convention destination. Not a place I look forward to going. Our trade shows for my profession has at least one meeting there a year. I have been to Reno as well. If all anyone is doing is going to SCI to look at the booths,, Reno can do that, but for those from out of the US or flying in frome the east or south east,, Vegas much easier to get to and more to see. As a past board member and president of a national association that has used that location,, there are "perks" for the board members and staff that are not available in Reno. Oh yes,, the suites are much nicer at the new hotels in Vegas!.Yes hotels and cities put together packages with perks for those at the top. Yes it is much more expensive to put on a convention there,, union, Freemans decorating, catering etc,, but people go there! It is alwasy one of our best attended locations! MONEY<<MONEY<<MONEY!!!!! When you get to the size of a convention that SCI or even DSC is,, there are few cities that can handle the numbers, and all have a convention center to put on the shows,,, Orlando,, Dallas, Vegas,, Anaheim, San Diego,Salt Lake City, Seattle, New Orleans, Chicago,,talk about unions,, there is a spot that will bust the budget,,San Antonio, Houston,,,There are many more great destinations but few can handle the numbers,, being in the trade show arena in the past,,, Reno is not considered a "top Tier" destination.. Number of sleeping rooms,, number of square ft exhibit,, number of flights,, number of total seats available on flights, average price of flights, average cost of sleeping rooms, public and private transportation and their costs, weather, number of resturants, other venues of interst nearby etc. Reno doesn't measure up but for the fraternity of hunters that attend,, we all like it! The exhibitors appaerntly like it! Bottom line we all know it is about the ability to make more money,, not on what the exhibitors or attendees prefer, what industry does customer satisfaction make a difference now? It isn't airlines,, and now the list grows.

The attendees will go to Vegas,, and the newbie list will be much greator as well as the exhibitors. Mark it down,,that's just the business end..we may grumble and whine but if we want to see the show,,we will go to where the show is,,,probably just go to DSC again next year myself

I think there is little doubt the exhibitors cost is going to be higher. From the attendees standpoint, for most it is easier and less expensive to get there. Hotels & meals will likely be more expensive. There is a hell of a lot more to do. Vegas has less bad weather. I wonder if more people will go because of the other activities?

I wish I could remember the details. IIRC, one exhibitor told me his cost was going from $3,800 to $7,000. A booking agent I know drove from TX to Reno because of $8,000 some entity was going to charge him to move his stuff. He is doing it himself.

Personally, I won't go or not go because of cost or location. I am certain there are others who would go or not go because of cost or location.

No one if forcing us to go. If you don't like it, stay home.

SilentT - If you look strictly at the airfare costs then you might and I say might save a little bit on it. The difference for me in New Mexico saves me about $45.00 between the two venues. That savings will be gone very quickly when you start adding in hotels, food, entertainment and the really big thing, transportation costs in getting around in LV.
Every move generally requires a cab or rental car. That's eight trips to the Show and back, two trips to the airport, dinner and shows at other hotels, etc. Plus the time and hassel in driving or cab riding is grueling. Ever drive in Las Vegas?? When all is said and down more dollars to attend in VEGAS.

Rich - I think you have a good bet going.
I'll second Rich also with to Las Vegas.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by SilentT:
It seems a lot of outfitters responding. I wonder what the attendee's think? I know i can get a much cheaper flight from my home in the midwest to Vegas than i can to Reno. No doubt about it.

Lots of good points and observations here. I will continue to support SCI and will go to LV, even if I dont agree with the move to that venue, maybe it will work out fine....we'll see!!

Guys,

I got back from Reno (SCI & Gun Guild shows) yesterday, and the week before, spent almost the same amount of time in Las Vegas for SHOT. There is no doubt that it is cheaper to fly to Vegas than it is to Reno. How much cheaper depends on where you are coming from. My hotel in Las Vegas (Circus Circus) cost me $36.00 per night plus tax (no Friday or Saturday nights). In Reno I stayed at the Nugget, a reasonably comparable hotel, which cost me $107.00 per night plus taxes. I spent less on meals in Las Vegas, but I ate better in Reno so I'll call that a wash. I paid three cab fares in Vegas, one from the airport to the hotel, and a round trip one evening that I was invited out. I rode a shuttle ($6.00) from the hotel back to the airport. I used no taxi service in Reno.

I assume, but don't know for sure, that SCI will have shuttle bus service from several hotels to the Convention site. They done so in the past.

From an attendee perspective, I don't know if SCI has done any attendee surveys, but I do know that SHOT has done so, and have found that attendance is always higher when the show is in Vegas than anyplace else where it has been held. That fact seems to bode well for exhibitors.

Actually, I personally don't care very much for either Vegas or Reno, but I go where the show is and make the best of it.

TT

quote:

Actually, I personally don't care very much for either Vegas or Reno, but I go where the show is and make the best of it.

Tom,
I vote San Antonio. Didn't it used to be there yeras ago???

SCI's regular annual conventions have only been in Reno and Las Vegas, and never in Texas. There were attempts years ago to hold regional shows in Georgia and Florida, and a European conclave in Germany, and all three flopped. I attended the one in Atlanta, and a skeet shoot could have been held inside the hall with no fatalities.

Bill Quimby

quote:

I vote San Antonio. Didn't it used to be there yeras ago???

You are thinking of Game Coin. I went to the last..the very last.. Game Coin Conventions in, I think 1992. It was an "old boys" club and the exhibitors had their own little club to keep from getting bored to death.

Rich Elliott

quote:

SCI's regular annual conventions have only been in Reno and Las Vegas, and never in Texas. There were attempts years ago to hold regional shows in Georgia and Florida, and a European conclave in Germany, and all three flopped. I attended the one in Atlanta, and a skeet shoot could have been held inside the hall with no fatalities.

I was there, Bill. Soudy Golabchi was the only attendee I can recall. The Orlando, Florida one was at least a lot of fun. I even spent some time in the booth!

Rich Elliott

I heard some old-timers talking about some kind of safari hunting convention being held in San Antonio...I thought...maybe I was dreaming.

Anyway...would be a good place!

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Elliott:

quote:

SCI's regular annual conventions have only been in Reno and Las Vegas, and never in Texas. There were attempts years ago to hold regional shows in Georgia and Florida, and a European conclave in Germany, and all three flopped. I attended the one in Atlanta, and a skeet shoot could have been held inside the hall with no fatalities.

I was there, Bill. Soudy Golabchi was the only attendee I can recall. The Orlando, Florida one was at least a lot of fun. I even spent some time in the booth!

Rich Elliott

Hi Rich. Another attendee was another Iranian, Naurie Tajbash, the taxidermist. I went with Soudy and Nouri and their wives one night to an Iranian restaurant that had a belly dancer for entertainment. We had a big laugh about a drunk who slid to a stop while he was being chased by cops and tried to rob Naurie, who told him to get lost. About that time, the police came running around the corner and the would-be thief took off again.

Bill Quimby

Las Vegas is a far better venue for the SCi gathering as for the members it is a far easier destination. The vendors are doing business, the members are doing down time, R&R, vacation, getaways whatever you want to call it. Rewards should be to the members.


Of course I am biased as hell, but what else could be new!

Viva Las Vegas!

Not only is it cheaper to fly to LV it is also easier because there are many more flight options. More of everything in LV; if it costs more so be it. I am going as long as Palin WON'T be there!

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
SCI's regular annual conventions have only been in Reno and Las Vegas, and never in Texas. There were attempts years ago to hold regional shows in Georgia and Florida, and a European conclave in Germany, and all three flopped. I attended the one in Atlanta, and a skeet shoot could have been held inside the hall with no fatalities.

Bill Quimby

if i remember right, SCI had it's first few conventions in the LA area( but that was a helluva long time ago and my memory ain't the best) for damn sure i remember the last few conventions in LV and i can GUARANTEE you it will be more expensive for both attendees and exhibitors! cab fare alone( not to mention everybody and his bother who works there with their hands out for tips)will eat you alive. the people of Reno are very glad to see you and make you feel wanted. to the fine folks in Vegas, you are just another mark ready to be fleeced. been there done that- never again. Dallas, here i come.

JD- Something we agree on. Comparison on Reno and LV is right on. Will definitely be taking a look at Dallas myself this year as well.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
SCI's regular annual conventions have only been in Reno and Las Vegas, and never in Texas. There were attempts years ago to hold regional shows in Georgia and Florida, and a European conclave in Germany, and all three flopped. I attended the one in Atlanta, and a skeet shoot could have been held inside the hall with no fatalities.

Bill Quimby

if i remember right, SCI had it's first few conventions in the LA area( but that was a helluva long time ago and my memory ain't the best) for damn sure i remember the last few conventions in LV and i can GUARANTEE you it will be more expensive for both attendees and exhibitors! cab fare alone( not to mention everybody and his bother who works there with their hands out for tips)will eat you alive. the people of Reno are very glad to see you and make you feel wanted. to the fine folks in Vegas, you are just another mark ready to be fleeced. been there done that- never again. Dallas, here i come.

damn Larry, since we both love to hunt, it was bound to happen sooner or later!!

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
SCI's regular annual conventions have only been in Reno and Las Vegas, and never in Texas. There were attempts years ago to hold regional shows in Georgia and Florida, and a European conclave in Germany, and all three flopped. I attended the one in Atlanta, and a skeet shoot could have been held inside the hall with no fatalities.

Bill Quimby

if i remember right, SCI had it's first few conventions in the LA area( but that was a helluva long time ago and my memory ain't the best) for damn sure i remember the last few conventions in LV and i can GUARANTEE you it will be more expensive for both attendees and exhibitors! cab fare alone( not to mention everybody and his bother who works there with their hands out for tips)will eat you alive. the people of Reno are very glad to see you and make you feel wanted. to the fine folks in Vegas, you are just another mark ready to be fleeced. been there done that- never again. Dallas, here i come.

SCI has never held a convention in California. You're thinking of the Las Angeles Safari Club, which became the first chapter of SCI.

The first SCI convention was held in 1972 at the Riviera Hotel. C.J. McElroy paid out of his own pocket the $25,000 up-front money the hotel demanded.

The convention was supposed to be a joint affair with the Hunting Hall of Fame with both groups sharing the profits, but Mac told the Hall to get lost when its leader decided not to induct Mac into the Hall.

The Hall people sued and SCI settled, which meant SCI made no money on that first convention.

You can read more about this in my 2005 "The History of Safari Club International," available from SCI's publications department.

Bill Quimby

I stay with a friend in Reno so there are no hotel costs. Besides that, I consider LV nothing more than a place to refuel, if you must, so that you can get farther away from it. I'm not sure what our plans for 12 are but I'll bet they don't include the Convention.

I visited SCI for the first time this year . If I go again it will be Reno in 2013 . A big decider for me as an overseas visitor is Reno having a Cabelas and Sportsmans Warehouse . Judging by the number of New zealand and South African accents in Cabelas on the Sunday I feel this may be important to other people as well . Vegas would be better if my wife came on the trip but there is not much chance of her coming to a hunting convention !

Mark

Larry, If you come do Dallas, let me know. I'll buy you a drink.

Hey Mark: Vegas has a huge Bass Pro Shops connected to the Silverton Hotel and Casino where many of the 2012 attendees will most likely be staying, with all of the hunting, guns, and shooting goods, as well as fishing, archery, camping, clothing, etc., etc., etc.,(well you get the picture), and just like Cabelas. There are also numerous gun stores and gun ranges where you can shoot a full auto machine gun and other firearms that you only dream of back in your part of the world! I've taken plenty of visiting folks there to buy stuff to take back across the pond. I also heard talk from some of the Sportsman's Warehouse people in Reno that there had been talk that they might put one back here in Vegas. There were two Sportsman's Warehouses built here in Las Vegas, and both opened right at the wrong economic time, so they closed them both within a matter of months. Don't stay home! Come and join us in 2012!