Today, the whitetail-sphere is dominated by hit-listers with cute names and the idea that a buck is only worthy of an arrow if he’s mature. The reason we’ve gone this way is because pure trophy hunting is generally ugly in the eyes of hunters and non-hunters alike. If you don’t believe that, go shoot a giraffe and plaster your kill photos all over your social.

While long-necked leaf-eaters from Africa are a far cry from 140-inch bucks in the States, the truth is that even deer hunters understand negative connotations. Hunting for “horns” comes with plenty. So, we target mature deer that are in their prime and have already passed on their superior genes.
It just so happens they are also at a stage where their antlers are potentially as big as they’ll be in the deer’s life cycle.

This particular article is an easy on taking the focus off “mature whitetails.” The thesis being targeting mature bucks is fine, but most people need to just go hunt deer and not focus on maturity.

This particular article is authored by To y Peterson.

I wish Meateater would get out of the echo chamber on African Hunting Conservation being a negative. It certainly can, but has and can be done to provide net positives.

At least, the group needs to reach out to someone better schooled then I for a public discussion.

Steve Rinella has hunted Brown Bear numerous times and on his show unsuccessfully numerous times. Very few are eating a salmon cured brown bear. The discussion of hunting a brown bear and Africa from an ethical standpoint are very similar.

Roger Hurt and Morgan Potter were on the podcast last year.

Worth a listen: https://www.themeateater.com/l...ffalo-beats-your-but

If it’s not gonna be trophy hunting , it will be meat issue like “ why can’t we just buy meat in store “ or just eat veggies
Antis will be coming after hunters for eternity or stop when they succeed to stop all hunting
These people are commies and tyrants who want power to dictate

All these shows are out with a message.

And generally it is NOT positive for hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Roger Hurt and Morgan Potter were on the podcast last year.

Worth a listen: https://www.themeateater.com/l...ffalo-beats-your-but

I haven`t listened to a lot of the meateaters podcast, but I have listened to that one. Since I heard he has a very skewed vision of hunting in Africa. That was very well confirmed through out that episode. I`m really glad his assumptions were proved wrong. Fascinates me that a person who deep dives into so many hunting and conservation related topics, knows so little about an area like African hunting. Wish to see him hunt in Africa in the future.

On another note, I`m a huge fan of Steve and his programs. I think it`s one of the few hunting-related shows that break over into non-hunting demographics. The same as one of my favourite danish programs "Nak og Æd" (they hunted with Thor Kirchner im Zambia). The danish Duo has 15 seasons of hunting, fishing and eating across the world, with a big following of non-hunters. real important to bridge the group of the middle group between Anti-hunters and hunters

I am not surprised. I agree with Steve’s brother, not Steve.

Rinella has demonstrated multiple times he has no knowledge, understanding or interest in hunting that occurs outside of the USA (with the exception of his trip to NZ where he hunted with Americans on public land just like he did in the USA). Some years ago he received an email from Germany which was rear out on the podcast. It started off with "weidmannsheil", which pretty much derailed the whole conversation as the podcast guests speculated on what that meant. Every time someone mentions hunting outside of the USA Rinella bitches about the one red deer hunt he did in Scotland and how terrible it was.

I just got home from a bike ride. I listened to the most recent JRE podcast. It was Joe Rogan, Steve Rinella and Cameron Hanes.

They discuss many subject but essentially keep coming back to the same message - Meat hunting good, Trophy hunting bad.

All three have been conditioned by their relative celebrity that they are right. People seem to want to fawn over these guys, hoping for a little celebrity stardust falls upon them I guess?

I listened very intent and found both stuff to agree on and disagree upon.Since they don't seem to understand that they have the nations ear, they have an implied responsibility to either send a positive hunting message, PERIOD, or shut the fuck up. They are hurting us more than helping us.

They are all hypocrites anyway. They speak of Western bow hunts for Elk and talk about "Oh, it was a 370 bull or it was this or that" THEY ARE TROPHY HUNTING.

To my point - I'm sure there are folks on here with a conduit to get this message to anyone or all three of these guys. I would be more than happy to have a civil debate with them as to the differences and reasons for responsible conservation thru trophy hunting in Africa and why the model in North America is completely different and simply cannot be applied.

Regards -

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
I just got home from a bike ride. I listened to the most recent JRE podcast. It was Joe Rogan, Steve Rinella and Cameron Hanes.

They discuss many subject but essentially keep coming back to the same message - Meat hunting good, Trophy hunting bad.

All three have been conditioned by their relative celebrity that they are right. People seem to want to fawn over these guys, hoping for a little celebrity stardust falls upon them I guess?

I listened very intent and found both stuff to agree on and disagree upon.Since they don't seem to understand that they have the nations ear, they have an implied responsibility to either send a positive hunting message, PERIOD, or shut the fuck up. They are hurting us more than helping us.

They are all hypocrites anyway. They speak of Western bow hunts for Elk and talk about "Oh, it was a 370 bull or it was this or that" THEY ARE TROPHY HUNTING.

To my point - I'm sure there are folks on here with a conduit to get this message to anyone or all three of these guys. I would be more than happy to have a civil debate with them as to the differences and reasons for responsible conservation thru trophy hunting in Africa and why the model in North America is completely different and simply cannot be applied.

Regards -

I know Steve’s brother Matt. But if you’ve listened to Meateater long enough you know that will get you no where

Morgan’s podcast is probably as good as it will get. He did talk to Tom McIntyre before he died as well.

I am willing to bet Steve does go hunt with Morgan Potter. One of his cohorts on the show (Corrine) hunted with him in Scotland.

And it will probably be the last time he hunts africa. I think it’s just too far out of his wheelhouse.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
I just got home from a bike ride. I listened to the most recent JRE podcast. It was Joe Rogan, Steve Rinella and Cameron Hanes.

They discuss many subject but essentially keep coming back to the same message - Meat hunting good, Trophy hunting bad.

All three have been conditioned by their relative celebrity that they are right. People seem to want to fawn over these guys, hoping for a little celebrity stardust falls upon them I guess?

I listened very intent and found both stuff to agree on and disagree upon.Since they don't seem to understand that they have the nations ear, they have an implied responsibility to either send a positive hunting message, PERIOD, or shut the fuck up. They are hurting us more than helping us.

They are all hypocrites anyway. They speak of Western bow hunts for Elk and talk about "Oh, it was a 370 bull or it was this or that" THEY ARE TROPHY HUNTING.

To my point - I'm sure there are folks on here with a conduit to get this message to anyone or all three of these guys. I would be more than happy to have a civil debate with them as to the differences and reasons for responsible conservation thru trophy hunting in Africa and why the model in North America is completely different and simply cannot be applied.

Regards -

Fine idea Steve and you would be the perfect spokesman

Unfortunately they become legends in their own minds and become Know it all personalities
Hunting show that is all about just meat/food is as rare as hens teeth
Most is all about trophy hunting and that sells
I just don’t like when they do one thing and say another

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
Unfortunately they become legends in their own minds and become Know it all personalities
Hunting show that is all about just meat/food is as rare as hens teeth
Most is all about trophy hunting and that sells
I just don’t like when they do one thing and say another

I get the fact that they make a living serving a narrow band of audience. That audience is tolerant of hunting for subsistence only. As a podcaster, they can't step outside that accepted level of killing or they risk mucho dinero doing so.

I have also already made some conclusions about Joe Rogan. First I find him very interesting. His long interview style is unique and makes listening to his guests easy.

I've learned much about stuff from his guests, I highly recommend others pick and choose his podcasts to listen to. Lots of CIA types, Ex-SEALS. Lots of UFO theorists like Bob Lazar, Col. Fravor, the Navy pilot that chased and filmed the Tic-Tok craft.

He even interviewed Edward Snowden twice. Snowden, whether you realize it or not, IS an American hero.

BUT...his advocacy of illicit drug legalization, his on air use of weed, his advocacy of psychedelics is unsettling, as he is a role model and kids listen to him.

Whether a guy like him realizes it or not, he is a role model. I would offer his paid endorsements of products as proof. He rely's on folks buying products based on his words.

There is no end game for the Anti’s. Totally ban hunting and they’ll move on to fishing. Ban fishing they’ll move on pet ownership. Ad nauseum. There is a large cross section of people who have to invent something to rage and protest against. “What are you rebelling against? What have you got?” Facts are liberal anti’s have a strangle hold on media and culture that bleeds into hunting and sporting media and culture. Pun intended. Liberal Democrats hate and despise hunters. All the while claiming to love animals while moving as far away literally and figuratively from them as they can. Meanwhile folks whose daily lives revolve around animals, ranchers farmers hunters, are reviled and cast as evil miscreants in the public eye. And all the while allowing milllions of people to come into this country. How many Wal Marts does a million people beget? Wal Mart’s and their 25 acre parking lots are killing the purple mountains majesty and amber waves of grain never to return. Let alone wildlife. Steve Rinella moved to town.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
Unfortunately they become legends in their own minds and become Know it all personalities
Hunting show that is all about just meat/food is as rare as hens teeth
Most is all about trophy hunting and that sells
I just don’t like when they do one thing and say another

I get the fact that they make a living serving a narrow band of audience. That audience is tolerant of hunting for subsistence only. As a podcaster, they can't step outside that accepted level of killing or they risk mucho dinero doing so.

I have also already made some conclusions about Joe Rogan. First I find him very interesting. His long interview style is unique and makes listening to his guests easy.

I've learned much about stuff from his guests, I highly recommend others pick and choose his podcasts to listen to. Lots of CIA types, Ex-SEALS. Lots of UFO theorists like Bob Lazar, Col. Fravor, the Navy pilot that chased and filmed the Tic-Tok craft.

He even interviewed Edward Snowden twice. Snowden, whether you realize it or not, IS an American hero.

BUT...his advocacy of illicit drug legalization, his on air use of weed, his advocacy of psychedelics is unsettling, as he is a role model and kids listen to him.

Whether a guy like him realizes it or not, he is a role model. I would offer his paid endorsements of products as proof. He rely's on folks buying products based on his words.

Disagree a bit here. The audience is not subsistence only. They are quite motivated by big bucks etc. even Steve says how he wants a monster this or that. You don’t wish to hunt stone sheep because you are a subsistence hunter. Or large mule deer on rare tags.

The perspective is one of wise utilization on conserved land available to the public - even though more and more of their hunts are on private land.

The Africa push back by a lot of their fans is actually holdover anti-colonial, fat guys riding and shooting from trucks, can’t bring the meat back, exploitation, etc etc.

Also remember they are now primarily a gear selling company whose intent is to generate interest in hunting and then sell those interested people gear so they can try to be successful. They are funded in large part by The Chernin Group and wish to be a 100 million dollar company. You aren’t going to pay back the investors or grow like that trying to push hunting in Africa. The market just isn’t there, and it’s also got a stigma to it. So they will tread very lightly.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
Unfortunately they become legends in their own minds and become Know it all personalities
Hunting show that is all about just meat/food is as rare as hens teeth
Most is all about trophy hunting and that sells
I just don’t like when they do one thing and say another

I get the fact that they make a living serving a narrow band of audience. That audience is tolerant of hunting for subsistence only. As a podcaster, they can't step outside that accepted level of killing or they risk mucho dinero doing so.

I have also already made some conclusions about Joe Rogan. First I find him very interesting. His long interview style is unique and makes listening to his guests easy.

I've learned much about stuff from his guests, I highly recommend others pick and choose his podcasts to listen to. Lots of CIA types, Ex-SEALS. Lots of UFO theorists like Bob Lazar, Col. Fravor, the Navy pilot that chased and filmed the Tic-Tok craft.

He even interviewed Edward Snowden twice. Snowden, whether you realize it or not, IS an American hero.

BUT...his advocacy of illicit drug legalization, his on air use of weed, his advocacy of psychedelics is unsettling, as he is a role model and kids listen to him.

Whether a guy like him realizes it or not, he is a role model. I would offer his paid endorsements of products as proof. He rely's on folks buying products based on his words.

Disagree a bit here. The audience is not subsistence only. They are quite motivated by big bucks etc. even Steve says how he wants a monster this or that. You don’t wish to hunt stone sheep because you are a subsistence hunter. Or large mule deer on rare tags.

The perspective is one of wise utilization on conserved land available to the public - even though more and more of their hunts are on private land.

The Africa push back by a lot of their fans is actually holdover anti-colonial, fat guys riding and shooting from trucks, can’t bring the meat back, exploitation, etc etc.

Also remember they are now primarily a gear selling company whose intent is to generate interest in hunting and then sell those interested people gear so they can try to be successful. They are funded in large part by The Chernin Group and wish to be a 100 million dollar company. You aren’t going to pay back the investors or grow like that trying to push hunting in Africa. The market just isn’t there, and it’s also got a stigma to it. So they will tread very lightly.

No argument here. I am making broad generalizations about the three as a whole. JR and CH are the worst hypocrites. Steve seems to pick and choose his moments of media driven morality.

JR is by far the worst offender.

As to the market size of African hunters. Craig Boddington claimed there are ~15,000 international hunters in the US. That demographic size just isn't big enough to garner any support from any group with enough moxie to make a difference in public opinion.

Which is the reason why I have always been an advocate of "flying under the radar". Which is a separate topic altogether.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:



He even interviewed Edward Snowden twice. Snowden, whether you realize it or not, IS an American hero.

Snowden might be a hero to you, but just remember, there are antis who would anoint the guy who burns down your trophy room as a hero as well.

The guy caused immeasurable harm to our intelligence assets.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
Unfortunately they become legends in their own minds and become Know it all personalities
Hunting show that is all about just meat/food is as rare as hens teeth
Most is all about trophy hunting and that sells
I just don’t like when they do one thing and say another

I get the fact that they make a living serving a narrow band of audience. That audience is tolerant of hunting for subsistence only. As a podcaster, they can't step outside that accepted level of killing or they risk mucho dinero doing so.

I have also already made some conclusions about Joe Rogan. First I find him very interesting. His long interview style is unique and makes listening to his guests easy.

I've learned much about stuff from his guests, I highly recommend others pick and choose his podcasts to listen to. Lots of CIA types, Ex-SEALS. Lots of UFO theorists like Bob Lazar, Col. Fravor, the Navy pilot that chased and filmed the Tic-Tok craft.

He even interviewed Edward Snowden twice. Snowden, whether you realize it or not, IS an American hero.

BUT...his advocacy of illicit drug legalization, his on air use of weed, his advocacy of psychedelics is unsettling, as he is a role model and kids listen to him.

Whether a guy like him realizes it or not, he is a role model. I would offer his paid endorsements of products as proof. He rely's on folks buying products based on his words.

Gee Steve, I agree with every word of yours
And about Snowden twice
I got in trouble with few people when I defended Snowden and I said out loud that he had guts to point out that our government is literally after anyone who disagrees with the elite

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:



He even interviewed Edward Snowden twice. Snowden, whether you realize it or not, IS an American hero.

Snowden might be a hero to you, but just remember, there are antis who would anoint the guy who burns down your trophy room as a hero as well.

The guy caused immeasurable harm to our intelligence assets.

He also showed America that we are not safe in our papers, our phone calls, our texts and our emails. They see it all. If you're OK with that, I'll not argue the point. I'm not OK with it, at all.

Have you read "Snowden"? Have you listened to both his podcasts? Absolutely sobering what our Government is doing to its own citizenry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efs3QRr8LWw&t=1808s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rl82OQDoOc&t=46s

Here are both, long format interviews, in order. I encourage EVERYONE to watch/listen to both before rendering judgement. I felt he was a traitor until I watched, listened and read.

Steve A., I agree with most everything you are saying.

My brother and I have been talking about how Steve Rinella is causing more harm than good for a long time. His focus on only the food portion of hunting will lead down the road of grizzly hunting in B.C. The government will outlaw keeping any parts of the animal except the meat, then when the number of people hunting drops they will ban hunting entirely.

Some Joe Rogan interviews are very interesting. He is obviously a very smart guy and retains a lot of the information he reads or hears from prior guests. I pick his podcasts based on the guest that he has on.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
I just got home from a bike ride. I listened to the most recent JRE podcast. It was Joe Rogan, Steve Rinella and Cameron Hanes.

They discuss many subject but essentially keep coming back to the same message - Meat hunting good, Trophy hunting bad.

All three have been conditioned by their relative celebrity that they are right. People seem to want to fawn over these guys, hoping for a little celebrity stardust falls upon them I guess?

I listened very intent and found both stuff to agree on and disagree upon.Since they don't seem to understand that they have the nations ear, they have an implied responsibility to either send a positive hunting message, PERIOD, or shut the fuck up. They are hurting us more than helping us.

They are all hypocrites anyway. They speak of Western bow hunts for Elk and talk about "Oh, it was a 370 bull or it was this or that" THEY ARE TROPHY HUNTING.

To my point - I'm sure there are folks on here with a conduit to get this message to anyone or all three of these guys. I would be more than happy to have a civil debate with them as to the differences and reasons for responsible conservation thru trophy hunting in Africa and why the model in North America is completely different and simply cannot be applied.

Regards -

100% agree mate. I'm a Meateater fan, like the show and the podcast BUT I do roll my eyes when they knock "trophy" hunting but Steve has said that he's always looking out for a GIANT mule deer.

What happens to the meat from a "Trophy" animal, hunted by a client? Every last bit is used, by the outfitter, his staff, and excess sold off into the booming formal venison/game meat market.
Nothing is wasted! To attempt to take the high moral ground...i.e. I am a meat hunter..... and somehow this places you in a different category from trophy hunters is a bunch of codswallop! As much as I enjoy Steve's shows he is at times very narrow minded and comes across as being ignorant....along with several other hunting personalities

quote:

Originally posted by nmhunter4life:
Steve A., I agree with most everything you are saying.

My brother and I have been talking about how Steve Rinella is causing more harm than good for a long time. His focus on only the food portion of hunting will lead down the road of grizzly hunting in B.C. The government will outlaw keeping any parts of the animal except the meat, then when the number of people hunting drops they will ban hunting entirely.

Some Joe Rogan interviews are very interesting. He is obviously a very smart guy and retains a lot of the information he reads or hears from prior guests. I pick his podcasts based on the guest that he has on.

I do the exact same thing, I pick and choose his guests. He has on many stand-up comedians, and MMA fighters. I skip 100% of those.

His UFO guests are always super interesting. He had a woman on last week named Diana Walsh Pasuka. She is a Professor of Religion. It was one of the most interesting podcasts Joe has ever had.

She, through her studies has tied together UFO's and Religions along with psychedelic trips.

Really made me think, and that is the goal of listening for me, to learn.

quote:

Originally posted by nmhunter4life:
Steve A., I agree with most everything you are saying.

My brother and I have been talking about how Steve Rinella is causing more harm than good for a long time. His focus on only the food portion of hunting will lead down the road of grizzly hunting in B.C. The government will outlaw keeping any parts of the animal except the meat, then when the number of people hunting drops they will ban hunting entirely.

Some Joe Rogan interviews are very interesting. He is obviously a very smart guy and retains a lot of the information he reads or hears from prior guests. I pick his podcasts based on the guest that he has on.

Worst case scenario is the game is culled by Government for meat sales

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by nmhunter4life:
Steve A., I agree with most everything you are saying.

My brother and I have been talking about how Steve Rinella is causing more harm than good for a long time. His focus on only the food portion of hunting will lead down the road of grizzly hunting in B.C. The government will outlaw keeping any parts of the animal except the meat, then when the number of people hunting drops they will ban hunting entirely.

Some Joe Rogan interviews are very interesting. He is obviously a very smart guy and retains a lot of the information he reads or hears from prior guests. I pick his podcasts based on the guest that he has on.

Worst case scenario is the game is culled by Government for meat sales

But that is invisible to the public eye. Ignorance is bliss.

There is no perfect show out there other than DSC's Tracks Across Africa.
I like Meateater. He has carved an interesting niche for himself with the cooking and meat prep work.

What he often does not say is that he has had Trichinosis at least twice from eating under cooked bear meat. Not a good advert for eating everything.

He had one episode where he ate jack rabbit and coyote. Not going to do that for sure.

Anyway, he is an articulate guy and I like the show.

However, everyone one of these hunting shows is selling something.... so buyer beware.

Meateater,s business model is built around the 3Rs-Recuitment, retention and reactivation. Everything has to be monetized. I am reading that after the Covid blip that the license sales numbers are again going down. Steve's brother Matt is from the other camp- that we are already oversubscribed, particularly in North America. Not sure I disagree with Matt. Both are worth a listen.

Track across Africa and Jim Shockey are best in my book
Personalities in hunting, Jim is grades above everyone else, complete gentleman and phenomenal listener

Can we all just agree that the term "trophy hunter" has been twisted into a political, pejorative term, right up (or down) there with "assault rifle"?

Just another catchy term (mis)used by the ignorant that signifies nothing.

No hunted and killed animal is destined merely to be a "trophy". That is ridiculous. All of them are part of the unending circle of life and death on this earth.

Those that human hunters don't kill and eat (and the vast majority are eaten) and then send to a taxidermist will still die.

They will likely die by the teeth and claws of another predator, but inevitably they will die, if only by a disease of old age or starvation, and then they will be no more.

Ashes to ashes and dust to dust.

No trace of them will remain, unlike the beautiful specimens our taxidermists have preserved for us human hunters, which will survive as memorials to the great animals they were and the joys and hardships of the hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana_500:
Rinella has demonstrated multiple times he has no knowledge, understanding or interest in hunting that occurs outside of the USA (with the exception of his trip to NZ where he hunted with Americans on public land just like he did in the USA). Some years ago he received an email from Germany which was rear out on the podcast. It started off with "weidmannsheil", which pretty much derailed the whole conversation as the podcast guests speculated on what that meant. Every time someone mentions hunting outside of the USA Rinella bitches about the one red deer hunt he did in Scotland and how terrible it was.

Those NZ shows were not great. He should have hunted with a kiwi local, just as he does with american locals in his US based episodes.
Many of their interpretations were off or misunderstandings.
I also had the impression at the time that at least some of it wasn't public land too, but not sure.

Meat eater is like everyone else, they get after awhile too big for their britches
Money, then power, then big mouth and then …