Let me tell you about mine.

As most of you know I am anal about carrying a loaded gun and we have had debates about this on AR.

Cut a long story short I was driving into some elephant and gave my mate in the back of the car the gun with instructions to let one off if need be. Unbeknown to me he loaded a cartridge but remarked he felt foolish as when he opened the bolt the chamber was empty (supposedly) and he must have overridden the cartridge. First mistake I never checked the chamber and closed the bolt.

I now had an active rifle sitting in the gun rack.

Second mistake - Having got back to camp I dropped the magazine to remove the ammunition and squeezed off the trigger pointing the gun as we always do towards a safe place to be followed by a large explosion.

I was 100% the gun was not loaded because I was presented a safe gun.

Why I did not shove my finger up the chamber I do not know? I have been doing that for countless years. Nor have I ever come across a bolt that slips a cartridge but then again most of my guns are of a Mauser configuration and this one was not.

It was my Dad who said never trust a gun and the consequence of events described is a reminder of that.

I honestly thought it would never happen to me but it did.

About 10 years ago, I simply one time put my 375 away loaded ( thinking no round was in chamber) took magazine out and month later took it out to go and shoot some rounds. Before I went shooting I pointed it out into a pile of dirt and squeezed trigger...surprise...
What a stupid chain of events, fortunately one fail/safe move I always do at last is pointing it down into a dirt
I still cringe today
So I hear you Andrew

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
About 10 years ago, I simply one time put my 375 away loaded ( thinking no round was in chamber) took magazine out and month later took it out to go and shoot some rounds. Before I went shooting I pointed it out into a pile of dirt and squeezed trigger...surprise...
What a stupid chain of events, fortunately one fail/safe move I always do at last is pointing it down into a dirt
I still cringe today
So I hear you Andrew

But we point the gun away and that is ingrained in us. I have had clients who want to load their rifles because they feel they have to protect themselves? I have had to explain that they pay me a premium to do that for them. Whatever I was so convinced that it would never happen to me.

Mine was pretty embarrassing but no harm...

Hunting lord derby Eland and we got on a good bull, who was moving. I had put my rifle off safe and had one in battery, but the bull kept moving. I shifted position with the rifle on the sticks and my finger on the trigger.... boom. The bull took off and I looked really stupid.

I’ve found guns in the rack with ammo in them, I’ve been handed “unloaded” guns with safety off, one in the chamber, and a full magazine... etc.

Follow the rules of gun safety!

Once one of my guides and I were out in the water picking up decoys. His gun was hanging in a tree by the strap with no one touching it and it went off. Another time I was in a duck blind and no one was touching a gun and one went off. Another time a client was holding a gun with stock down and one hand on the barrel. Boom. I have witnessed this three different times.

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:
Once one of my guides and I were out in the water picking up decoys. His gun was hanging in a tree by the strap with no one touching it and it went off. Another time I was in a duck blind and no one was touching a gun and one went off. Another time a client was holding a gun with stock down and one hand on the barrel. Boom. I have witnessed this three different times.

Once had a chap show me how safe Blasers were and shot it through the roof of my camp narrowingly missing his forehead. Had a friend selling me a gun boasting that to shoot it you took the safety off and therefore no need for a trigger.

We are still mates.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Mine was pretty embarrassing but no harm...

Hunting lord derby Eland and we got on a good bull, who was moving. I had put my rifle off safe and had one in battery, but the bull kept moving. I shifted position with the rifle on the sticks and my finger on the trigger.... boom. The bull took off and I looked really stupid.

I’ve found guns in the rack with ammo in them, I’ve been handed “unloaded” guns with safety off, one in the chamber, and a full magazine... etc.

Follow the rules of gun safety!

It happens and especially when trackers are showing off our weapons to their mates or simply checking the gun is unloaded and then closing the bolt whilst we are having a cold one at the bar.

It is quite a simple rule - never point a gun at anyone which was taught to our fathers.

Fair game, at some stage it seems to happen to all if we shoot or around guns enough. I think I m very careful but one day my .375/Gibbs .505 rolled off the sandbags during a long range competition at 2400 yds and went off. I was mortified! How could it happen?
My father in law had a facial burn his whole life from a AD.
A friend shot another through the hand after saying it was not loaded.
A very experienced friend was unloading after getting off the back of the Landcruiser and while unloading with gloves on nearly hit the PH.
A 12 year old playing with an “ unloaded “ .22 shot his 16 y sister through the heart. Fortunately, being small caliber, we saved her.

They happen. That is why rule number 1 is muzzle control. If the gun is always pointed in a safe direction and there is an accident it’s just embarrassing not tragic.

quote:

Before I went shooting I pointed it out into a pile of dirt and squeezed trigger...surprise...

Just like that, without first pulling the bolt and visibly checking if there might be one up the spout even if we are sure the chamber is empty?

Some of us store our rifles with either the bolt open or removed and empty magazine - we do that when the firearm is not in use unless we live in troubled areas as in an isolated farm in RSA.

I had a friend who when we were both 14, found his dad's 22 pistol under the bed. Thinking that it was unloaded, he pointed it at his 6 year old brother and pulled the trigger and shot him through the heart. I was a pall bearer at the 6 year old's funeral. I had another friend put a hole in his new Ford F-350's cab ceiling with a .243 thinking that his hunting rifle was unloaded. Finally, I hunted with a PH in South Africa a few years back for Oribi, who had a crippled arm from a shotgun accident, while I believe, crossing a fence with a loaded shotgun.

quote:

Originally posted by ElCaballero:
They happen. That is why rule number 1 is muzzle control. If the gun is always pointed in a safe direction and there is an accident it’s just embarrassing not tragic.

There it is.

Two kinds of shooters.
Those who have had an AD, and those who will.
Muzzle control.

Wow!! This is a cheery thread.

Joyce has exemplary firearm handling skills. She was visiting family in PA and invited by a cousin to go shoot groundhogs on the farm. Far be it for her to pass up some Varmintgeddon.

After a day of shooting Joyce was about to clear the firearm when the cousin grabbed for it saying "here I'll do that"..... not sure why other than Joyce is female..... when he grabbed for it he stuck his finger in the trigger guard and bang.

Joyce will never be around him and firearms again. Her choice, not mine. He's lucky she didn't club him with the buttstock.

I've had one myself. 3-5 of us were standing near a duck blind shooting the shit. A duck flew over, they all fired. I waited til the war was over. Then as I was raising the hammer type 12ga/3" my thumb slipped off the hammer and it hit the cuticle. Damn that hurt! I was nearly fully up by then.

I was 15 riding middle seat in an old '50 Ford p/up chasing coyotes. Asshole on the R had his '06 muzzle up between us, windows closed when it went off. My R ear has been ringing and 80% loss since. Hell of a price to pay for some assholes screw up. Sixty years of that racket.

Muzzle down or you don't ride with me!

Twice in elk camp at a ranchers house while I was still out hunting. Someone fired a big rifle thru the ceiling. Another shot a .22 pistol into the table about 6" from where I always leaned back with knee's against it. i wasn't in there either time.
There were other holes in the ceiling over the years too.

Plumb scary!

George

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
I had a friend who when we were both 14, found his dad's 22 pistol under the bed. Thinking that it was unloaded, he pointed it at his 6 year old brother and pulled the trigger and shot him through the heart. I was a pall bearer at the 6 year old's funeral. I had another friend put a hole in his new Ford F-350's cab ceiling with a .243 thinking that his hunting rifle was unloaded. Finally, I hunted with a PH in South Africa a few years back for Oribi, who had a crippled arm from a shotgun accident, while I believe, crossing a fence with a loaded shotgun.

I have kids and am paranoid about guns. My wife has a revolver which is in a safe next to the bed. She has to simply pull the trigger. However she has to open the safe.

My mate Richard Bell Cross has some seriously bad guys break into his house and took his loaded rifle off him and attempted to shoot him in the face and missed his head by half an inch. We are neighbours and I remember going to his house in the dark knowing that some fucker had his rifle pointed at me.

I was shot in the arm by a friend with a AD. He shot his brother the next year and his father 3 years later. I won't even go in the county as the guy.
Yep, muzzle control is the saving grace.

I tend to have carry a backpack regularly when hunting. Most backpack these days are well equipped with multiple buckles and belts. For longer shots I frequently lie down prone and use the backpack as a rifle rest. One time I closed the bolt before laying the rifle on the pack. As I snuggled the rifle into the pack it fired. One of the little buckles had worked it's way inside the trigger guard and worked the trigger. Gave me an almighty fright and the hunting guide lying right beside me. He brushed it off but I remained queasy inside for hours. Luck no harm was done but I sure hated this AD incident.

As a kid waiting in the truck while my Dad set some traps, I was absent mindedly thumbing the hammer back on a 410 single shot when she slipped and went off out the open door. He weren’t too happy with me. But he once hid a cool .22 Buntline special pistol on top of a few Playboy magazines with a bottle of liquor, no joke. I had hit the Jackpot! I told him years later about that, he chuckled and said he thought that liquor was losing it’s bite!! I was adding water to top it up.

In the example Andrew is citing the rifle was cycled twice before dismounting the vehicle so the override problem is an issue with that gun.

I believe some people sense danger and are more cautious than others.Guns are dangerous no doubt.Same with cars but we still drive.Loading the rifle and walking in the bush is part of hunting.It is best to be in good shape and not on medication too.Also starting firearm safety courses should cover the topic more and include dangerous scenarios that we think little of.

Had one when I was about 16. Thumb slipped off the hammer spur as I was decocking a lever action Erma.
Another a few years back when using a rifle with a Jewell trigger that had the safety in the trigger guard.
Sold the Erma and the Jewell trigger.
I’m careful about where the muzzle points and won’t hunt with anybody that isn’t. Classic example in another recent thread where the PH involved is very careless. Inexcuseable for a professional IMO.

Yo, Andrew...

It is your ball so the rules are yours, of course. Please explain the unloaded gun rule. Let us say that I or Saeed or tiger hunter Jim Corbett showed up and wanted to shoot a cape buffalo bull in Zambia.

At first light we find tracks heading off into the bush and the hunt begins.

Does someone carry our gun … or ammo … or what?


I once had a PH give me hell for unloading my rifle after I killed a tuskless in the Zambezi Valley. It was my last animal that I was hunting on that trip but he was not impressed that we would be walking the miles back to the vehicle with my gun empty.


A lot of hairy chested hunters on this site profess to not having any respect at all for the danger posed by such varmints as buffalo or elephant. At least they have stated that many times on AR. Well good on them .. However a lot of highly experienced PH guys have been killed by buffalo and elephants.


I have been charged twice by buffalo and once had a PH run away when a bull elephant came towards us … (he told me of that later … I sure as hell wasn't watching him .. )

I have always told young people to try not to die stupid. I would feel really stupid if a cow elephant killed me on a safari because my 416 Sako had to be used as a club...

Anyways, amigo .. your ball … your rules ..

All the best !!

I had one...sort of.

Someone handed me a loaded gun. I started to unload it. I pointed it in a safe direction and slipped the safety off. BOOM! I never touched the trigger.

This model gun was recalled for having this issue.

Remington 700 … my wife's rifle was fixed by Remington for that very issue. Scared the hell out of everyone except the mule deer as the gun was not exactly pointed right at it as she removed the safety. She was then too flustered to put another shell in the rifle and try again. Who wouldn't be?

I have hunted twice with African PHs who claim to distrust safeties. Their solution scared the crap out of me. They chamber a round in the rifle and then lift the bolt part way up. The gun is then handed to a tracker who walks in front of the PH with the barrel pointed straight ahead. The PH claimed he just steps into the rifle and slams to bolt down to be in action. The two trackers who are out in front have a rifle pointed at them most of the day. When we stopped for lunch the gun would be leaned against a tree in that same condition. I asked both PHs where that system came from and was told it was common with older hunters who worked for Parks a one time.

I agree! If you have not had an AD you will eventually unless you are very lucky. I can tell you having a gun accidentally discharge is a truly horrible feeling.

Mark

Just recently had an AD discussion on another forum. A common cause seemed to be pulling the trigger to verify that the gun is empty. I know two people who've had ADs happen this way. Both with military training. Apparently this method is taught by the US Army. I don't understand the dangerous method of pulling trigger when a visual and tactile method would suffice. I was taught never to pull the trigger unless I intended on shooting something. Exception made for dry fire practice with dummies and no live ammo present. That trigger pull to verify an unloaded weapon has caused a lot of trouble.

I have had three, the first one was an old Savage shotgun that looked like a hump back Browning. I dropped a round in the chamber pushed the button to release the bolt and when the bolt slammed shut the gun fired. The other two were both with a 700 Remington 30-06 that I bought used, both times I came back from hunting standing next to my car released the safety and grabbed the bolt handle and the gun fired. I had the guns pointed at the ground in each one of these AD. Bryan

I dropped my loaded S& W 9 mm getting out of the truck yesterday. When it hit the ground the barrel was pointing right at me.
Makes you think twice about keeping a clip feed pistol loaded. Not that concerned about revolvers.

quote:

Originally posted by Marty:
Two kinds of shooters.
Those who have had an AD, and those who will.
Muzzle control.

Agreed!

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I agree! If you have not had an AD you will eventually unless you are very lucky. I can tell you having a gun accidentally discharge is a truly horrible feeling.

Mark

A feeling that doesn't go away even decades later.
Thank God mine didn't hurt anybody.

Have to say, except for the childish ignorance and arrogance of one, it's been a distraction with the other. Thinking about something else, not paying attention to the deadly weapon in my hand.

Now with my little girl and other kids around, I'm even more fearful of a "mistake".

I had one when I was a kid in high school. Fortunately I knew enough to keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. Ever since then I always check any gun I pick up to make sure it isn't loaded. If I watch someone unload or check their gun to make sure it's empty and then hand it to me I do my own check. That way it becomes ingrained in your memory.

I had one long ago, age 16...a friend and I were "tank jumping" ducks (go from one stock pond, or "tank" in Texas to another, sneak up behind the dam and shoot whatever ducks happen to be on the water). I had a 1963 VW beetle and a Remington Model 10 12 ga that was too long for the back seat so I laid it alongside the transmission tunnel when driving. I left one in the chamber and when I picked it up to go get the ducks at the next tank, I bumped the passenger seat and it went off. A 1 1/4 oz load of Imperial No 4's (the purple hulls with brass about an inch up the hull) went thru my right foot, bent the brake pedal and went right thru the floor of the VW. I'm a lot more careful, now.

I am hyper-careful with where my rifle's muzzle is pointing. My father was my state certified hunter safety instructor and taught me well. However, it happened to me during a late December deer hunt. I was using my new .375 H&H. A doe stepped out, I slid the safety off, began to lower the crosshairs, when my thick glove apparently caused the rifle to fire. It scared the HELL out of me. Thankfully, the bullet flew just a few feet high over the deer.

Was helping a friend on a guided duck hunt. Had ducks come in, party comes up and shoots. I'm standing up looking out the blind marking birds so I can send the dog.

Gentlemen sitting next to me sits down and places his gun against the blind. Next thing I know I hear a gun go off and piece of the blind fly by my face.

While sitting down the guy next to me wanted to check and see if they safety was on by pulling the trigger... as you see it was a new gun and h wasn't sure.

He wanted to book a subsequent hunt but the books were full for the next decade.

I acquired my Demas / VC 470NE last June and took it to a farm to try for pigs.

I was so nervous as it did not have an automatic safety. I had fired it a hundred times on the range but in the field it made me very nervous. I ended up carrying it unloaded most of the day.

quote:

A feeling that doesn't go away even decades later.

Especially if a death is involved. I still think about that 6 year old brother of my friend, the funeral and that little boy laying in the casket, and its been 53 years since that happened.

UEG, that's a tough story, wish it had turned out differently.

I think, at some point, we have all had a moment of absent minded non thinking. Thats why there are several rules of gun safety. If all are followed, no one should ever get shot accidentally.

It was ingrained in me from a pup, all guns are loaded. Treat them as such. Point them such that if anything does go wrong, nothing gets shot that isn't supposed to be.

I have an ex-business partner, set off a 338 Ultra in a blind, with a muzzle brake. And a guide. Neither of them could hear for a couple days. He has never been able to book a return to that ranch, probably never will. To this day, he does not accept responsibility for it. I fear a repeat will eventually happen, as he is too proud to admit mistakes can be made.

I know I can make mistakes, I just paid a fine today, for accidentally bringing my concealed carry pistol thru TSA at the airport. THAT was a circus, I can assure you.

Thanks MikeE. I was not there when the little brother was shot by his older brother, as I was home waiting for the older brother to pick me up as we were working that morning for one of the local fruit farmers. When I got the news from one of our other neighbors, I rushed down to their home, only to see their next door neighbor cradling the 6 year old in his arms as they jumped in the car and rushed to the hospital located in the next town. He died in the neighbor's arms on the way. In any event, it was a trauma related to gun safety that I have never forgotten.