Just read this on HuntersNetworks
http://huntersnetworks.com/Arjun/blog/523/

This is great news since traveling to Reno was a real pain.

SCI convention moving to Dallas, TX!

The decision has been made! The SCI convention will be moving their convention out of Reno - 2012 will be the last year.
In 2013 the SCI convention will be held in Dallas a week after the Dallas Safari club show, 2014 convention will be
Las Vegas, 2015 the convention comes back to Dallas and so on.....

SCI only likes a little bit


Seloushunter

well, i guess that gives me 3 more years of attendance before i take a 1 year break. if i can't drive, i am too lazy/cheap to fly. Vegas will be nice, however- same driving time as Reno.

quote:

by WyomingHunter

I'm glad they are leaving Reno, it is a horrid town, but Dallas would be very low on my list of replacement cities. What is wrong with Denver or some other central location? Dallas is almost as bad as Atlanta in terms of grid lock, and duplicating an existing major show doesn't seem to make much marketing sense. Competing with yourself isn't a good strategy. Who is going to hang around for two shows or make a round trip? Las Vegas is despicable beyond description.

Above quoted from that link!

There are too many weather problems with Denver, and I'm not sure they have a facility big enough to handle an SCI show. I don't understand the statement in bold in WyomingHunter's post. How is the SCI convention being held in Dallas competeing with it's self? The DSC is not afiliated with SCI, but a seperated safari club, THE DALLAS SAFARI CLUB . There is a Dallas chapter of SCI but it has nothing to do with the Dallas safari club, and is quite small as well, and no compition to anyone!

I have no like for the SCI convention being in Dallas. It would be better in Phoenix, Az with Tuscon being the national headquarters, only 90 miles away. Weather is great, and airservice is good. I'm not sure what convention facilities are available there though.

I've been a member of SCI almost since it's inception, but I have never gone to an SCI convention, and I probably will not go to one in Dallas either. I have not missed a DSC convention since 1982 however, and I will likely not miss another in future.

I echo Mac's comment. The DSC convention is incredible, but I have never been to the big SCI. The North Texas Chapter of SCI is smaller, but they do the best they can. I think SCI's decision was based on the ease of travel for the outfitters. DSC is moving to a bigger location and will attract more exhibitors, a lot of whom will remain for SCI. Yes, it may be a bit of overkill for one city and two weeks, but I think the two organizations will mutually benefit.

quote:

Yes, it may be a bit of overkill for one city and two weeks, but I think the two organizations will mutually benefit

I sure hope you are right.

Rich Elliott

Funny how people who have never been to "the big one", so have nothing to compare to, think the DSC show is the cream of the crop. Been to both, like them both. Having both in Dallas will hurt both shows a lot, most people will not go to both and will make a choice, so one will be a looser each time the choice is made.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Larry this has been before. I am not getting into a contest over this, but I am curious how many visitors attend both shows now. Outside of the exibhitors I doubt if more than a few hundered attend both. Personally for me Dallas is easier to get to, but I go there because of the AR gang which is more active there than in Reno. I would think it would maybe attract more vendors as they will be able to do two shows at less total cost. JMO, hell I may not live to see them both in Dallas, I may be eaten by a captive breed lion, just couldn't resist.

I used to attend SCI, until I was invited to Dallas three years ago. Since then, I have no intention of ever returning to the SCI convention. I refuse to get ripped off by the exorbitant entry fees when I can book with the same outfitters in Dallas and sooner to boot. jorge

Jorge - as DOJ said we have been through this many, many times on here. I agree, if all you really care about is "how cheap" the entry fee is then YOU found YOUR answer, DSC. However some of us don't see the SCI entry fee as simply that, but with a little wider prespective of it being a fundraiser donation to the cause. I know this concept is hard to understand by some, so go the cheaper route and be happy!!

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
I used to attend SCI, until I was invited to Dallas three years ago. Since then, I have no intention of ever returning to the SCI convention. I refuse to get ripped off by the exorbitant entry fees when I can book with the same outfitters in Dallas and sooner to boot. jorge

I dont believe it will be easy for exhibitos as they will have to haul their booth around - atleast those that have bigger booths!

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Jorge - as DOJ said we have been through this many, many times on here. I agree, if all you really care about is "how cheap" the entry fee is then YOU found YOUR answer, DSC. However some of us don't see the SCI entry fee as simply that, but with a little wider prespective of it being a fundraiser donation to the cause. I know this concept is hard to understand by some, so go the cheaper route and be happy!!

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
I used to attend SCI, until I was invited to Dallas three years ago. Since then, I have no intention of ever returning to the SCI convention. I refuse to get ripped off by the exorbitant entry fees when I can book with the same outfitters in Dallas and sooner to boot. jorge

Well I guess DSC must have better financial advisers as they seem to do just as much as SCI and still manage to be reasonable with entry fees. If you believe the higher entry fees are to collect funds for "the cause" and not their extravagant overhead, go ahead. Also, DSC does not "extort" floor space the way SCI does with exhibitors. I'm a member of both, but virtually everyone that's been to both that I've spoken with prefer DSC. jorge

Jorge,

I have enjoyed your posts over time and you and i have some some common ground in that i also served in the USN in jax and we both flew for a living.

I also generally agree with your philosophy about life and living given the small sample here on AR. We are, however, in disagreement about DSC and SCI. Why do people feel , just because they like DSC, they have to flog on SCI? I too, like DSC but also am very supportive of SCI.

There is little likelihood that DSC, a good organization, can match SCI because of their sheer size, with regional chapters worldwide and the resulting financial and political clout.

We all know DSC left the fold partly over ego. Most of us probably feel that all the big egos aren't in Tucson, as everything is bigger in Tx.

I guess my point is that we should all pull together for the greater good of hunting. Even then it will be an uphill battle.

Adrian.

Can't disagree on what you wrote Adrian, but I don't believe the split was over "ego" as you describe. All I can tell you is that DSC rolled out the red carpet for me when I was their guest a few years ago, and I can do everything at DSC for 1/4 the cost or less. Also, and I'll say it again, I don't like the way they pressure outfitters for donated hunts. It's not flogging, just facts. I plan to continue being a member of SCI, hell they even printed my article, I just think DSC is a better value for me. Cheers, jorge

Plus 1!!

AP - I to agree that both shows and both organizations are great, but like you, just can't figure out why some here who tout DSC so highly can't just do that and not badmouth SCI in the same sentence? Must be a hidden agenda in there somehere?

Jorge - Should have clarified a little maybe? I look at MY $250.00 entry fee to SCI as MY annual contribution to them, not that everyone looks at it that way. Sorry to burst your bubble, but no way does DSC even come remotely close to "do just as much as SCI". That's just facts and numbers.

Every Show in the World, hunting, auto, homebuilders,electronics and on and on charge a fee for their booth space. If the vendor wants to attend, they pay the booth fee. Nobody extorts, arm twists or makes any vendor attend their Show, so to claim SCI "extorts" is simply not true. If YOU don't want to have a booth at SCI and pay their price, simply don't have booth there.

Prediction as stated above. Both shows will suffer attendance loss by being in Dallas two weeks apart.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by Adrian Parham:
Jorge,

I have enjoyed your posts over time and you and i have some some common ground in that i also served in the USN in jax and we both flew for a living.

I also generally agree with your philosophy about life and living given the small sample here on AR. We are, however, in disagreement about DSC and SCI. Why do people feel , just because they like DSC, they have to flog on SCI? I too, like DSC but also am very supportive of SCI.

There is little likelihood that DSC, a good organization, can match SCI because of their sheer size, with regional chapters worldwide and the resulting financial and political clout.

We all know DSC left the fold partly over ego. Most of us probably feel that all the big egos aren't in Tucson, as everything is bigger in Tx.

I guess my point is that we should all pull together for the greater good of hunting. Even then it will be an uphill battle.

Adrian.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Larry this has been before. I am not getting into a contest over this, but I am curious how many visitors attend both shows now. Outside of the exibhitors I doubt if more than a few hundered attend both. Personally for me Dallas is easier to get to, but I go there because of the AR gang which is more active there than in Reno. I would think it would maybe attract more vendors as they will be able to do two shows at less total cost. JMO, hell I may not live to see them both in Dallas, I may be eaten by a captive breed lion, just couldn't resist.

I have attended every SCI convention since 1984, and only went to Dallas in 2008, but I can tell you that "a few hundred" attendees describes neither. Even with this year's economic downturn, SCI drew somewhere near 20,000 plus or minus members. I would guess that Dallas drew about 1/4 to 1/2 of that in 2008.

Those who say they can book with "the same outfitters" in Dallas are limiting their options greatly. From what I saw, the number of exhibitors in Dallas also is limited. It took at least two days to see every exhibit in Reno this year. In Dallas in 2008, I had seen all I wanted in a half a day.

The Dallas club's show is a wonderful event for what it is, but it is not on the same scale as SCI's.

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by Adrian Parham:
Jorge,

I have enjoyed your posts over time and you and i have some some common ground in that i also served in the USN in jax and we both flew for a living.

I also generally agree with your philosophy about life and living given the small sample here on AR. We are, however, in disagreement about DSC and SCI. Why do people feel , just because they like DSC, they have to flog on SCI? I too, like DSC but also am very supportive of SCI.

There is little likelihood that DSC, a good organization, can match SCI because of their sheer size, with regional chapters worldwide and the resulting financial and political clout.

We all know DSC left the fold partly over ego. Most of us probably feel that all the big egos aren't in Tucson, as everything is bigger in Tx.

I guess my point is that we should all pull together for the greater good of hunting. Even then it will be an uphill battle.

Adrian.

Well Navy check, JAX check, fly well I am a PR, but I don't really see the point of DSC, other than ego.

I'd like to see all the prohunting organizations in the United States join together as one. Or become part of the NRA. We can do more good together than we can apart.

Right now I am a life member of the Boone and Crockett club, NRA and working on Wild Sheep and SCI. We have elk, whitetails, mule deer, NAHC, Pheasants, Ducks, Delta Waterfowl, and so on. Everyone's ego means we all fail together instead of for the good of hunting.

There are only a couple cities that can handle a large convention, Vegas, Reno, New Orleans, Orlando, Dallas and I'm sure a few others.

I would bet Dallas sees a large increase in outfitters because of the SCI show.

The problem is in the attendees who drive, it now becomes an either or situation. That will reduce the total attendance of the 2 shows, IMO.

I have no doubt that if SCI did the show in say Orlando that the attendance total for both show would be higher, probably much higher. SCI would be hitting a totally different group of attendees, many first timers who don't want to fly but would drive. It is also much easier and cheaper to fly to Orlando for everyone on the east coast and some of the midwest.

If you think about it, SCI will lose many of the people who can drive to SCI in Reno. Those who drive to DSC might try something new and go to SCI or just stick with the DSC that they know and like. The only thing that SCI could add would be the crowd which would go to both which I would guess is minimal.

I think GeoffM24 has it about right. I have been attending Reno SCI for some time now simply because I can drive there. I will not be flying to Dallas or anywhere else. For the well heeled that's not a problem. I agree that, with two shows so close together, one of them is going to be a loser. If Dallas were close I would attend DSC once just to compare with SCI. I do not have anything against DSC: I do not know anything about it other than what I have read here. I do not get this complaint about SCI "gouging" vendors for booth space. If you do not want to pay, then don't play. I do not like what I am asked to pay for a lot of things. So, what do I do? I either walk- or pay. Obviously, a lot of vendors are willing to pay. Witness the long waiting list of vendors who want to get in. Three years ago one outfitter/vendor I used told me there was a five year wait to get a booth. Another one confirmed it. And, each year the show is getting bigger with more exhibitos.

d99,

I agree completely.

I'm not sure that NRA and SCI should join, however, as either guns or hunting would get less emphasis. They do sort of run together and it's certainly a point to consider.

There is no doubt that pooling all our clout and resources in the hunting and conservation world is not just desirable, but critical.

Thanks, Adrian

I personally think SCI going to Dallas is a big mistake. As I see it, it's not going to do anyone any good at all and to do it in this present financial climate just makes it even worse.

It'll mean that many of the exhibitors are selling to what is essentially/largely the same audience twice, so they end up paying twice the price to sell half the hunts. I'd also guess it's gonna cause an awful lot of bad feeling with both exhibitors and attendees.

I was expecting the 2010 convention season to see a lot of changes because of the recession and a few other factors but I'd guess this move to Dallas will cause even more changes.

Bill, I said a few hundred that attend BOTH conventions in the same year. I have enough problems on here withouit being misqouted.

Jesus, Steve what diference does it mean to you - you have no dog in this debate, you are not a member of either org and don't attend either show. Also the move isn't until 2012 do you know what the economy will be then, if you do just walk across the Atlantic and inform Obama, and the rest of the world.

Personally I don't go to the show to book a hunt I usually have that done by the time I go, I go to see the great people from AR at the parties.

Oops, sorry, I forgot to ask your permission to make a comment........ as we say in Tanzania, 'po-li - fuck-in'-sa-na' which when pronounced like that, has a slightly different meaning to it's more usual direct translation.

I might not go to the conventions but I am still allowed form an opinion and comment on that opinion.

That you are, just wondering why you would bother.

po-li fuck-in' sa-na

I will continue to support DSC but not SCI.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Funny how people who have never been to "the big one", so have nothing to compare to, think the DSC show is the cream of the crop. Been to both, like them both. Having both in Dallas will hurt both shows a lot, most people will not go to both and will make a choice, so one will be a looser each time the choice is made.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

I think you are correct, about the action hurting both! That, IMO, was the reason SCI chose to do it! DSC has been getting too much attention in the last few yrs. Sort of an Alpha wolf move! As far as not haveing been to the SCI show, meaning anything, If one can read he doesn't have to attend a show to know that it is a price gouging snoot-fest.

This will not only hurt both SCI, and DCS but will also impact HSC adversely as well!

The DSC show is first, and the next week is HSC, and then SCI shows up. NONE of the exhibitors will attend all three, and nobody that has a job will take three weeks off just for safari shows, then also take off another 10 to 21 days for a safari in the same year so if they attend all three bookings will suffer as well.

I personally think it is a dumb move on SCI's part, and maybe a little "HIT JOB" as well.

SCI in DEN, or PHX would be better for all concerned, and SCI the first week of Feb.

None of this opinion is, in any way, disregarding what SCI does for hunting, in general, world wide. The ease of getting to any of the shows from anyplace is the only up grade,IMO but this just seems to me to be bully tactics!

Now fire at will, I'm going underground! ......... ...............

Contrary to the popular belief here I predict the competion will provide more sucess for both shows.

quote:

I have attended every SCI convention since 1984, and only went to Dallas in 2008, but I can tell you that "a few hundred" attendees describes neither. Even with this year's economic downturn, SCI drew somewhere near 20,000 plus or minus members. I would guess that Dallas drew about 1/4 to 1/2 of that in 2008.

Those who say they can book with "the same outfitters" in Dallas are limiting their options greatly. From what I saw, the number of exhibitors in Dallas also is limited. It took at least two days to see every exhibit in Reno this year. In Dallas in 2008, I had seen all I wanted in a half a day.

The Dallas club's show is a wonderful event for what it is, but it is not on the same scale as SCI's.

Bill Quimby

Bill,

DSC has roughly 15,000 attendees during the 2008 convention.

Ive said it on here before, PHX would be my choice for the new convention location..

I've attended the "big one" a time or 2 in the last 10 years and have also gone to the DSC show every year since 1998.. If the ruling stands, and they are dead-set on leaving the SCI show in Dallas, I will continue to attend DSC and forego the SCI show. Why go to Dallas twice in two weeks?

Alot of great points have been included in the discussion.. There is just no two ways around it..both shows are going to lose out on this move. Stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Having both in Dallas will hurt both shows a lot, most people will not go to both and will make a choice, so one will be a looser each time the choice is made.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

This is the best description I have read.

How many can see going to (essentially) the same show, in the same hall, with the same exhibitors, on consecutive weekends?

DSC ends on Sunday, SCI starts on Wednesday.

Very, very few will do this.

The line will be drawn in the sand, and people will choose which show to attend. Both will be harmed, for different reasons.

Wendell - I second that!

Aaron

I think the DSC show will have a big benefit from this SCI decision. It will almost certainly have more exhibitors, which will attract more attendess. There will likely be more DSC exhibitors because many of the costs of attending the DSC convention (airfares, shipping, etc) will have been covered by the costs of going to the SCI convention in the same city. If DSC is smart, they will HELP the dual exhibitors by providing them some kind of secure space to store their exhibits for the few days between the shows before SCI starts. The loser, if there is one, will be SCI. Dumb move on their part IMO.

I think DSC should be happy SCI is coming to their backyard. With two+ years notice and a list of their vendors I would make an all out effort to grab as many SCI exhibitors as possible. It shouldn't be hard to sell cheaper entrance and exhibitor fees along with volunteer help for setups. If played right this could be a big windfall for DSC.

Oh Hell there will be many go to both shows. You'll make it sound like a person only goes to either show for one day. The shows although similar will be different. There will be more vendors for each show. There are now vendors that attend one or the other but probably now will show at each show. I don't know if he visits the african board often but I wonder if Gerald Telford (New Zealand) who attends SCI will come early to do the DSC show, my guess is yes. I am sure there are many vendors like this. If SCI stays in Dallas for a few years it will be better. The Eastern Sports Show last for 9 days and people go numerous times and pay a daily fee.

Guys,

Does anybody know how much of a break there will be between the DSC and SCI if they are both in Dallas?

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

Does anybody know how much of a break there will be between the DSC and SCI if they are both in Dallas?

Mark

I heard somewhere that there was a 14-day provision against "competing" events in the contract that SCI signed with the Dallas Convention Center.

Bill Quimby

dang, I am going to miss going to the SCI convention. Oh, well, they probably won't notice I'm gone.

Rich
Buff Killer

Thanks Bill,

I just can't wait to go to Dallas, come home and go back again in two weeks. This is some weird horse shit I must say.

Mark

I like Dallas - and I just cant get enough of Texas... not surprisingly more than half of our 2008 clients (in total) came from that state.

To me each proposed venue for SCI has its own problems - and if I had to choose between Dallas and LV - I would have to take Dallas - much easier to get around, less expensive and easier for clients from the eastern states to get to.

To me DSC will be much more for Texas hunters and SCI of course is the international convention and hunters will flock from around the world - no matter where it is held in the USA.

I love Reno - but if they wont let me stay there - I will take Dallas....

For Dallas Safari Club I would suggest they would do best encouraging more general hunters from Houston to come up to their convention...

Both organisations will benefit from being in this location...

Texas sure is a GREAT hunting state!!