I've hunted with Thierry Labat in the Save' twice now and each time I've been impressed with the way he handles his rifle. He is not only a top notch shot, he can cycle the bolt and be ready for a follow up shot as fast as anyone I've seen. I thought it would be interesting to see what some of the PH's out there use and make their living with. I've taken a couple of photots of Thierry's rifle with his permission and he knows how much I like his setup. It's a VZ-24 action with a ghost ring sight and a short but stout barrel.
The stock has a palm swell that really gives you a great grip. It does have class! Chambered in 458 Lott.



Did I mention that Thierry handles this piece quite well. Yes, he does!

I shot a klipspringer with it.

It's a nice piece.

no hinged floorplate?! THE HORROR! how do you get loaded rounds out?!

That's a nice working rifle! well done!

What type of ghost ring sight does it have?

Typical, practical working rifle.

From what I've seen, most PH's will more than likely be armed with a CZ/Brno/Mauser/Ruger/Winchester bolt-action of sorts very much like this.

That is a great-looking working rifle. Do you have any idea who built it for him?

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by jvw375:
Typical, practical working rifle.

From what I've seen, most PH's will more than likely be armed with a CZ/Brno/Mauser/Ruger/Winchester bolt-action of sorts very much like this.

Yes, and a lot of them don't extract or feed well and sometimes even have bent barrels.

I like it.

Same rifle, on my shoulder, atop Nyama Beri, highest point on Hammond Ranch, SVC, Zimbabwe 2010.


And leaned against a tree just a few days before.

Great pictures, Will! Anyone else have pictures of your PH's rifle?

I'm sitting in the Admiral's club in Dulles cooling my heels on my way home from 2 weeks in the Save at Senuko, with the very capable Glen Stockil....

Probably got some pics of his rifle on my chip,I'll look later......

He carries a similar short barreled Lott but built around a Brno 602 original .458 Win....it is in a later 550 style "roach back" stock,that Glenn has slimmed down in the magazine area for better carry, and has had a 3 position '70 style safety added. Feeds and functions perfectly...

Nice handling gun,and he handles it well in the field,and while I'm sure he is quite proficient with it, I never saw him shoot in two weeks we hunted,lion,buff,plains game etc..... He Said it was a PH's kind of hunt.... never had to fire his rifle.

Good trip with good folks,

Paul

I like the heavy barrel with no noticeable taper. It may make it heavy but after all we are talking about a .458 lott here.

This is PH Theo Bronkhorst's backup rifle. Built by Sabi and is a 500 Jefferys. Ghost rear on a Mauser action.

Labat's rifle was built by Sabi and looks similar to Theo's but they didn't put the 4 down mag box on his like he had ordered. I'm looking into a 4 down mag box bottom metal setup for Thierry.

Hard to see much of it,but here is Glenn Stockil lott along with Jason Frost and my own Rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
This is PH Theo Bronkhorst's backup rifle. Built by Sabi and is a 500 Jefferys. Ghost rear on a Mauser action.

That is an unusually nice rifle compared the things I've seen a lot of PHs carrying! Most of the ones I've seen have no blueing at all, stocks dinged and scared. However, ever one I've seen works like quicksilver through a tea strainer, and the PHs I know, know how, and when to shoot them, as I suspect Bronkhorst does!

......................

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
This is PH Theo Bronkhorst's backup rifle. Built by Sabi and is a 500 Jefferys. Ghost rear on a Mauser action.

That is an unusually nice rifle compared the things I've seen a lot of PHs carrying! Most of the ones I've seen have no blueing at all, stocks dinged and scared. However, ever one I've seen works like quicksilver through a tea strainer, and the PHs I know, know how, and when to shoot them, as I suspect Bronkhorstdoes!

......................

Many, many times clients have said to me.... "gee I thought you would have a fancier rifle than 'that'" - or - "why dont you get a 'new' rifle, so you 'look the part'" ... I NEVER understand that. If I was the client I would be more concerned that the guide/PH new how to use the old well worn rifle than 'looking the part'. I am carrying a double rifle now and just recently one client who had previously commented on my old worn 458 bolt gun told me that I LOOK so much more professional with a double gun now!!! I felt like giving him an earful but I just ignored it....

That picture was take in 2004 but I am sure the rifle is pristine but used today. I know Theo treasures and takes impeccable care of his rifles. I'm sure, he too, would like a double but the cost is a pretty tall factor for a PH no matter how sucessful. I see no reason for a rifle to be abused no matter who or where it is used. It's really a matter of individual pride one takes in his weapon. I only know PH's in Zimbabwe but don't think they would be the exception. Most of the ones I know take very good care of their rifles. I have seen very few with beatup stocks although some are thin on blue that comes from constant handling. Most have good quality soft cases they put their rifles in when not in use. Being a gunsmith and lover of all firearms I take a careful look at any I come in contact with in the course of hunting especially in Africa. These are just my observations of course. Incidentally the feet his rifle is on are the Elephant I am sitting on in my Avatar. He did not have to use the 500 that day.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
That picture was take in 2004 but I am sure the rifle is pristine but used today. I know Theo treasures and takes impeccable care of his rifles. I'm sure, he too, would like a double but the cost is a pretty tall factor for a PH no matter how sucessful. I see no reason for a rifle to be abused no matter who or where it is used. It's really a matter of individual pride one takes in his weapon. I only know PH's in Zimbabwe but don't think they would be the exception. Most of the ones I know take very good care of their rifles. I have seen very few with beatup stocks although some are thin on blue that comes from constant handling. Most have good quality soft cases they put their rifles in when not in use. Being a gunsmith and lover of all firearms I take a careful look at any I come in contact with in the course of hunting especially in Africa. These are just my observations of course. Incidentally the feet his rifle is on are the Elephant I am sitting on in my Avatar. He did not have to use the 500 that day.

I dont know of any way that a firearm can spend 100-200 days in the (real) field every year and not get chips and scratches on the stock.... I do not know the way to do that??

quote:

Originally posted by mel5141:
I'm sitting in the Admiral's club in Dulles cooling my heels on my way home from 2 weeks in the Save at Senuko, with the very capable Glen Stockil....

Probably got some pics of his rifle on my chip,I'll look later......

He carries a similar short barreled Lott but built around a Brno 602 original .458 Win....it is in a later 550 style "roach back" stock,that Glenn has slimmed down in the magazine area for better carry, and has had a 3 position '70 style safety added. Feeds and functions perfectly...

Nice handling gun,and he handles it well in the field,and while I'm sure he is quite proficient with it, I never saw him shoot in two weeks we hunted,lion,buff,plains game etc..... He Said it was a PH's kind of hunt.... never had to fire his rifle.

Good trip with good folks,

Paul

Hi Paul
Glenn does indeed handle his rifle well. I have been with him on hunts where he has had to use it and done so with the utmost efficiency.
Glenn also complimented your shooting ability when I last spoke to him.

You will be pleased to know that we managed to get Jason a very nice CZ 550 375 with your tip. He is thrilled and will send you some pics when he collects it in a few days.

As an appy this is perfect for him as I know a great deal of PHs who carry the 375 due to its penetration. By far the most popular PH gun in Zim is the 458 and 458 lott. This is simply due to the fact that there were large numbers of them used by Parks which became available on the open market. I beleive the most common of these is the BRNO , follwed closely by the winchester.

I have been on ten safaries, and on two of them the PH fired. The first was a Zim PH who will go unnamed. He carried an exceedingly beat up 458 Lott, a Brno as I recall. His culling belt had several cartridges, no two the same. There was no need for him to take a crack at my dead-on-its-feet buff, but he fired several rounds and hit it once just at the top of the back. The critter was standing at 70 yards. My long-time friend and SA PH, Fanie Steyn, just looked on.

It has been my observation of seven PH's that:
-Most carry rifles that are in rough condition and haven't been carefully zeroed in years.
-Two PH's have been good shots. The rest poor or no test.
-Only one, Kevin Robertson, was a real rifleman, took good care of his well used Dumoulin 505 Gibbs, and could shoot the balls off a gnat in the dark.
-Over sundowners one evening in Namibia, I had to demonstrate to three PH's why the so-called Africa safe carry was hideously un-safe because the firing pin was thereby resting on the primer. Despite the undeniable proof presented, two of the three observers were unconvinced.
-I was once loaned a 22 centerfire by a PH to use on Duiker. It was an old German custom job that had a device once called a safety which had transformed itself into a random firing mechanism.

Oh, the second time my PH fired was on a leopard. I had got a pretty good piece of him as he came out from under a rock at the speed of light. Fanie Steyn put one through his shoulders a moment thereafterusing a borrowed rifle.

Sorry to go on so, but I'm not impressed by the PH shooting I've seen, or their rifles. Just my 2 cents.

My PH's battery consisted of a William Evans .470 double rifle and a .458 WM built on a military Mauser action. I had no indication that either was particularly accurate in his hands.

In fact, a parting shot he fired at my retreating rhino went in sideways and penetrated only a few inches, so the barrel may have been shot out. (The rhino succombed from two .505 bullets through the boiler room, put there by me.)

The only time I saw him shoot the .458 was when he deemed in neccessary to fire a finishing shot into one of my buffalo, which had lain down facing us in thick brush, and, as it turned out, expired. It was cheaper to use my .458 ammunition than his (unavailable) .470's.

He didn't know a lot about guns, wasn't interested in ballistics or theoretical performance. I suppose he regarded his guns the way a carpenter regards his hammer. Something which gets the job done is good enough.

I spent eleven weeks hunting with him, and can only remember his firing at anything three times, once at my first elephant, which was shot very close to the game reserve border and would have been irretrivably lost if he had made it back into the reserve.

My first shot (a side brain shot) missed the brain, but put him down. He struggled to get up, but two more shots from me and a couple from the PH finished him off. One of my bullets was recovered from the off side eye socket. I don't know where the PH's bullets went, the heart, I suspect.

The second time was at the aforementioned rhino, and lastly at an oryx, which had taken a step forward, just as I broke the shot, turning a raking shot from lower rib cage to off shoulder to one which entered just in front of the hip and exited in the rib cage on the opposite side. He ran for over a mile before finally collapsing.

My PH took a running shot at him with my .458 DR and missed.

I've only done one guided hunt (my recent bear hunt). I was an assistant guide for two years in the Bob Marshall but that was 40 years ago. In anycase my experience is extremely limited, but what I want from my guide is:

1. His ability to find, judge and set up a stalk for my trophy.

2. His ability to shoot calmly and accurately at extremely close range.

3. Ability to follow up a wounded animal with me at his side and once again shoot calmly and accurately at extremely close range should it be necessary.

4. Be of good character and good company.

He doesn't have to be a crack shot except at under 15 yards.

That nice 505 Jeff most likely help save my life in July of 2012 when Theos' friend Gerard shot into the side of my charging buffalo. The real problem was when Gerard tried the second shot the gun went click. The primer was dented but the round failed to fire.
I shot the buffalo over the right eye and stopped him while Gerard took my borrowed 375 and shot him over the other eye.
I blame the Kynock ammo and not the gun but still...the back up needed a back up!
Better tomorrows to all.

quote:

I dont know of any way that a firearm can spend 100-200 days in the (real) field every year and not get chips and scratches on the stock.... I do not know the way to do that??

+1

I shot an elephant turd that Thierry had thrown into a tank with his rifle. That was funny, elephant dung scattered far & wide.

Pierre van Tonder carried a pre 64 Win in 375 H&H, an Italian 500 jeffery, and is now carrying a Merkel 470 double.

500 Jeffery and my Famars 450#2

Mike, great bull. When I hunted with Pierre in 2008, he was using a RH 375 magazine rifle (he's left-handed). I asked him why he didn't just buy a LH rifle. He had tried it, but after so many years of reaching over for the bolt, it was 2nd nature, and he went back to a RH. We had a buff charge during our hunt, and I don't think someone could have fired both barrels of a DR faster than he shot twice with that rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
...I thought it would be interesting to see what some of the PH's out there use and make their living with.

outstanding idea.

When I hunted with Clinton van Tonder in July he was using an open sighted Cogswell & Harrison bolt action in .375 H&H. Probably built in the fifties, it has spent a lot of time in the field. I don't think I have a picture which shows it in any detail.

I have seen a Westley Richards 450/400, a couple BRNO 375s with that hideous backwords safety, a pre 64 model 70 458, a CZ 9.3x62 a Remington 700 in 416 Rem and a couple 458 Lotts on Mausers. The real surprise was a full blown custom by Sterling Davenport in 458 Winchester that was opened to a Lott. The Davenport was custom ordered by a client as a gift for the PH and so inscribed. I don't think I ever saw a PH that was just a fair shot. Either excellent or lousy with most being excellent. Most had been in the military and or worked for Parks and knew their way around a rifle pretty darn well.

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
a couple BRNO 375s with that hideous backwords safety,

Explain please?

The safety slides the exact opposite of most other guns. Slide it back to fire and forward to be on safe.

Mike do you remember the brand of the 500?
Just curious.

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
The safety slides the exact opposite of most other guns. Slide it back to fire and forward to be on safe.

I like that style on my CZs, it is nicely tucked in next to the wood with less chance of it being inadvertently moved. As a lefty, it is so handy for my left thumb. I suppose different strokes, different folks.

Sporterized Brit 303

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
The safety slides the exact opposite of most other guns. Slide it back to fire and forward to be on safe.

I like that style on my CZs, it is nicely tucked in next to the wood with less chance of it being inadvertently moved. As a lefty, it is so handy for my left thumb. I suppose different strokes, different folks.

Remember being at a talk by Lucas Potgieter where he credited the Brno safety with getting his mate killed by an ele (as in the friend was pushing the safety forward to get it off, but it getting "more on", while the ele advanced and did its thing.

Since I have mostly Brnos (except for a Mauser with a flag safety), the idea that I'll get the safety wrong has never really bothered me all that much.

Pierre Hundermark's 375 H&H. He normally used a 458 (Dakota or Ackley) but it had stolen out of his hut while he was sleeping in camp.

I wish it was a better photo, but this is Grant Taylor's 425 Westley Richards built by Westley Richards. If I remember correctly, he picked it up when a Zimbabwe Police Station was selling off some confiscated weapons. He also has a 500 NE by Heym.

I like that really heavy barrel all the way to the muzzle. Got to help some with muzzle jump; after all it is a lott.