I'm bringing up something that will probably get me crucified here on AR.

AR is a fantastic Forum with no frills and a place to get a wealth of information shared by members. Many a crook has been called out on AR and saved many a hunter - and outfitter , lots of headaches , and money. This gives members a certain amount of power. Unfortunately this power can be misused and detrimental to innocent members , where members try to boost themselves by down playing someone else. This happens all the time in the real world , we all know that.

Some people are known scam artists in the industry , I know. Fine. But someone posts a hunt. As another outfitter , if you think something is not clear and you know your post would put a doubt in members minds. You post it anyhow. It makes the poster look dodgy . It gets resolved , it was an innocent mistake. All is good. No , all is NOT good. Doubt has been placed in peoples minds and , although resolved , it impacts negatively on the outfitter selling his hunt.
Send the posting outfitter a PM , you might be surprised how helpful he is and you will be helping him. If you feel he ignores you and there is genuinely something fishy about his answers , post the question. Call him out.

I know the members on the forum are saying " hell no , we want it all open , that's what AR is about " Well , there are 2 sides to that coin. I've seen it happen here on AR and thought to myself " Lol , the pot calling the kettle black " We don't want the crooks here on AR , but we don't want the witch hunt syndrome either. Be responsible . My opinion of course

Jan,

You have a point, however AR snuffs out those who may not be true. It doesn't take long. I've also met others who chose not to participate because of the BS that happens, but they know.

It often occurs that we see a first time poster who has been following for years.

I still thank Saeed and others for helping me through my first African adventure.

All good points Jan, thanks for posting. Always a lot to consider on both side of an issue.

Always good food for thought.

Well said Jan!

Jan,

You haven't done something naughty have you?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Jan,

You haven't done something naughty have you?

NO ! Why ? What what what did you hear ? !!

If you are a PH, outfitter, booking agent, taxidermist, or make your living related to hunting then AR is a double edged sword.

On one side the blade can open many markets worldwide for you, on the other side it can cut deep, smearing you rightfully or not.

I remember Wendell and the "Adams" (I think that was her name) affair.

For all the intended bad press Wendell likely came out with more of a following. He worked diligently until the issue was resolved.

That is a reality of AR and I for one would not like to see it change. I'm skeptical enough to weed through the chaff to find the wheat.

AR led me to good Safaris with good people. One Safari would likely be described as the hunt of a lifetime.

AR does a fine job of weeding--either by AR itself or by the members. Remember the shit bag SA PH who would not refund a dying man's deposit? Remember the POS gunsmith in Maine who tried to screw a member with crap double rifle barrels?
Cal

I did not know you could hunt witches. What is SCI Gold for a witch?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I did not know you could hunt witches. What is SCI Gold for a witch?

Not sure if this makes gold but is a good representation of the species.

What we try to do on AR is have an open discussion.

Which basically means one has to stand with what one does.

The bad apples are quickly exposed.

And good ones tend to build on their good reputation - even if someone complains about them.

Their reaction to any complaint shows whether they are good or not.

AR does not protect its so called SPONSORS, because we do not have any.

All we ask is from our fellow members is to promote our sport.

Whether they are clients or involved in the business.

Everyone has an equal opportunity to put his case forward.

Not really sure where we can make changes that can improve on this.

I think Jan is referring to the guilty until proven innocent stand AR takes rather than the other way around.
I was recently questioned on a Hippo hunt thread.

Although all my business are in order, I did make a repetitive typo from a previous thread I posted, which caused another outfitter to question the legitimacy.
That hunt is now done, as it has created doubt to anyone reading the thread.

All good points gentlemen.

Now , I have no horse in this race. I have never been at the receiving end of this nor do I have friends who have.

Hypothetical question : Outfitter A calls out Outfitter B. Outfitter B turns out to be innocent but some doubt has been created.
I happen to know that outfitter A is a dark horse with some ( many ) sketchy dealings behind the scenes ( ones his clients would not know about) , and that clearly he only called out outfitter B to make himself look better.Outfitter A is fairly popular amongst AR members and a true politician.

Do I spill the beans on AR on outfitter A -- This would make the drama hungry soap box AR junkies very happy -- or do I just let it go ? After all , I'm not involved.

AR is still the best hunting forum out there. Thanks Saeed.
Just some food for thought.

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
All good points gentlemen.

Now , I have no horse in this race. I have never been at the receiving end of this nor do I have friends who have.

Hypothetical question : Outfitter A calls out Outfitter B. Outfitter B turns out to be innocent but some doubt has been created.
I happen to know that outfitter A is a dark horse with some ( many ) sketchy dealings behind the scenes ( ones his clients would not know about) , and that clearly he only called out outfitter B to make himself look better.Outfitter A is fairly popular amongst AR members and a true politician.

Do I spill the beans on AR on outfitter A -- This would make the drama hungry soap box AR junkies very happy -- or do I just let it go ? After all , I'm not involved.

AR is still the best hunting forum out there. Thanks Saeed.
Just some food for thought.

Tough call Jan. I did that a year or so back on another forums and got crusified!!

A year later the operator is now banned on the site. Did I do myself and my company damage by looking out for the interests of hunters at large ? I think I did and won't do it again.
My 2c

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
All good points gentlemen.

Now , I have no horse in this race. I have never been at the receiving end of this nor do I have friends who have.

Hypothetical question : Outfitter A calls out Outfitter B. Outfitter B turns out to be innocent but some doubt has been created.
I happen to know that outfitter A is a dark horse with some ( many ) sketchy dealings behind the scenes ( ones his clients would not know about) , and that clearly he only called out outfitter B to make himself look better.Outfitter A is fairly popular amongst AR members and a true politician.

Do I spill the beans on AR on outfitter A -- This would make the drama hungry soap box AR junkies very happy -- or do I just let it go ? After all , I'm not involved.

AR is still the best hunting forum out there. Thanks Saeed.
Just some food for thought.

Jan spit it out man. If something pisses you off then there is no wrong in expressing your opinions here. I do it all the time mate and have been bashed about a bit but that is what a forum is all about.

My $0.02. I think outfitters that are overly outspoken on controversial issues do themselves no favors from a business development perspective. That is particularly true when it comes to one outfitter taking a leak on another outfitter. It just comes across as unseemly and petty. If something absolutely needs to be said, the outfitter should have a friend or client make post the information for them.

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
All good points gentlemen.

Now , I have no horse in this race. I have never been at the receiving end of this nor do I have friends who have.

Hypothetical question : Outfitter A calls out Outfitter B. Outfitter B turns out to be innocent but some doubt has been created.
I happen to know that outfitter A is a dark horse with some ( many ) sketchy dealings behind the scenes ( ones his clients would not know about) , and that clearly he only called out outfitter B to make himself look better.Outfitter A is fairly popular amongst AR members and a true politician.

Do I spill the beans on AR on outfitter A -- This would make the drama hungry soap box AR junkies very happy -- or do I just let it go ? After all , I'm not involved.

AR is still the best hunting forum out there. Thanks Saeed.
Just some food for thought.

Tough call Jan. I did that a year or so back on another forums and got crusified!!

A year later the operator is now banned on the site. Did I do myself and my company damage by looking out for the interests of hunters at large ? I think I did and won't do it again.
My 2c

Funny, I got banned from a site BECAUSE I called out an Outfitter trying to pass off a 25ish " Nyala as a 29"er...

Did I mention that the Outfitter I called out was also a sponsor of that particular site?

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
All good points gentlemen.

Now , I have no horse in this race. I have never been at the receiving end of this nor do I have friends who have.

Hypothetical question : Outfitter A calls out Outfitter B. Outfitter B turns out to be innocent but some doubt has been created.
I happen to know that outfitter A is a dark horse with some ( many ) sketchy dealings behind the scenes ( ones his clients would not know about) , and that clearly he only called out outfitter B to make himself look better.Outfitter A is fairly popular amongst AR members and a true politician.

Do I spill the beans on AR on outfitter A -- This would make the drama hungry soap box AR junkies very happy -- or do I just let it go ? After all , I'm not involved.

AR is still the best hunting forum out there. Thanks Saeed.
Just some food for thought.

Jan,
Just my thought--seems your posts are getting ready to create a witch hunt for Outfitter A. I bet you have someone in mind to be A. Guess I'm curious if your original intent was to say how bad these witch hunts were on AR or start another one? Your intent may have been the former but reality is the latter.

Regards,

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
All good points gentlemen.

Now , I have no horse in this race. I have never been at the receiving end of this nor do I have friends who have.

Hypothetical question : Outfitter A calls out Outfitter B. Outfitter B turns out to be innocent but some doubt has been created.
I happen to know that outfitter A is a dark horse with some ( many ) sketchy dealings behind the scenes ( ones his clients would not know about) , and that clearly he only called out outfitter B to make himself look better.Outfitter A is fairly popular amongst AR members and a true politician.

Do I spill the beans on AR on outfitter A -- This would make the drama hungry soap box AR junkies very happy -- or do I just let it go ? After all , I'm not involved.

AR is still the best hunting forum out there. Thanks Saeed.
Just some food for thought.

Talk to Saeed about the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by DonW28:

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
All good points gentlemen.

Now , I have no horse in this race. I have never been at the receiving end of this nor do I have friends who have.

Hypothetical question : Outfitter A calls out Outfitter B. Outfitter B turns out to be innocent but some doubt has been created.
I happen to know that outfitter A is a dark horse with some ( many ) sketchy dealings behind the scenes ( ones his clients would not know about) , and that clearly he only called out outfitter B to make himself look better.Outfitter A is fairly popular amongst AR members and a true politician.

Do I spill the beans on AR on outfitter A -- This would make the drama hungry soap box AR junkies very happy -- or do I just let it go ? After all , I'm not involved.

AR is still the best hunting forum out there. Thanks Saeed.
Just some food for thought.

Jan,
Just my thought--seems your posts are getting ready to create a witch hunt for Outfitter A. I bet you have someone in mind to be A. Guess I'm curious if your original intent was to say how bad these witch hunts were on AR or start another one? Your intent may have been the former but reality is the latter.

Regards,

Don

It was Purely Hypothetical .