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Quote: Well, Tim, you're wrong. I wouldn't forget it, but I'd accept it. See, it's THAT PERSON'S SPACE! I would not INVADE THAT PERSON'S SPACE if that person wished I not do so. Forget it? No, I'd wish the person lung cancer or an STD or something. Accept it, though? Yes. See, "asking" means a 50/50 chance of getting a 'no.' I can live with 'no.' I won't live with apathetically-inflicted pain. As to your Kerry remark... you're off base. I'm of the "survival of the fittest" genre. I deserve more space because I can kill you sixteen different ways from Sunday if I'm of a mind to -- which I'm not. Many people are alive today only because I've allowed it, not because it's against the law to kill them. If I can't recline my seat because the person behind me doesn't want me to, I can live with that. To date, everyone has said "sure" or "okay" or "yeah, no problem"... but I'd deal with it if they said no. Again, it's their space. When the person in front of me crushes my knees, he's INVADED "MY" SPACE. Russ | ||
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'I deserve more space because I can kill you sixteen different ways from Sunday if I'm of a mind to -- which I'm not. Many people are alive today only because I've allowed it, not because it's against the law to kill them' Russell - you're quite an interesting case study! Thanks for brightening my day. Darwin was right.  Ian | |||
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Quote: Russ, If someone who looks as if he can kill me in sixteen different ways asks me if he can recline his seat, I will kindly accept that even if will be slightly uncomfortable for me...  But I guess I have a Darwinian strategy to stay in the gene-pool by avoiding trouble!  Regards, Martin  | |||
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Here is an interesting device that keeps the airline seat infront of you from reclining. Very clever. Knee Defender | |||
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"Prevents the seat of the jackass passenger in front of you from reclining." I like that.Now, what about the jackass passenger behind you that likes to kick/knee your seatback every 5 seconds or so even though it is not reclined? | |||
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Mims just forwarded this to me a few minutes ago and I immediately ordered them! I'm 6'5" and can't afford to ride up in front with the rich pygmies who don't need the leg room anyway. I can't count, seriously, the number of times I've had my knees crunched by people sitting in front of me. As I told Mims, "I" always turn around and ask if it's okay for me to recline the seat; I am not afforded the same courtesy, though. Great product, LONG overdue! Russ | |||
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Christer, ROTFLMAO! "D" | |||
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Is that a Carbon Fibre Bat? Do I need to upgrade? Do they show up on Airport X-ray machines? I always worry about a wood Bat failing just when you need it most. I never liked the Aluminium bats, they just don't feel right. | |||
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Quote: It isn't just the feel, they just don't have the right sound when they make contact. | |||
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The term "recline" is laughable. Airplane seats in cattle class do not recline. They move slightly but enough to make things more uncomfortable. What I can't figure is, auto manufacturers go out of their way to mave our cars comfortable. Why hasn't any improvement been seen in airplanes in the last 30 years? | |||
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That is why they give you all the alcohol you can hold on these long flights. You know that you are feeling uncomfortable, but you don't care after your fifth whiskey and soda. BigBullet | |||
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Quote: Because cars keep getting more expensive, while plane tickets keep getting cheaper. As long as everybody demands cheap airline travel, it won't get any better.... Which do you want more? To get there as cheaply as possible, or to ride in style? You can't have both.... | |||
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Quote: Cars are getting cheaper, GM is offering a $5000 discount right NOW! But to answer your question, I think we can have both. | |||
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Quote: Is that a MatchKing bat or a hard cast lead bat? -Bob F. | |||
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Ann, There is serious tension in the economics of air travel in the deregulated environment. The "Passenger-mile" is very important to the airline, but the effect of too many seats in the cabin is a serious pain in the knee, butt and everywhere else for we passengers. SAA went the wrong direction in moving from the 747 to the Airbus. I expect the TSA will declare the Knee Defender a security risk anyway. The answer is Business Class. Now what was that question? jim | |||
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But with this gadget one ends up with the tray table in your gut for the flight. Not any better at all.  | |||
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Quote: What if the occupant in the seat ahead of you objects and the flight attendant asks you to remove the knee defender? | |||
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Quote: Ha! At those prices, NO WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!! | |||
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Quote:Quote: Nice touch, but perhaps not so practical in the closed space of an aircraft... I guess the guy who made these could make somthing more convenient for us...  Regards, Martin | |||
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What about when the shoe is on the other foot? i.e. when you wish to decline your seat to improve YOUR comfort and the guy behind you has your seat blocked? How do you view the blocker now? | |||
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Meanwhile, what to do about the fat lady next to you that has a gas problem at both ends  This actually happened to me on a flight to Ethiopia via London years ago. A gas mask would have been nice!Rich Elliott | |||
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Oh my! I've had to deal with the fat lady before, but not the gas problem. Probably a few folks have thought poorly of me, as I do take up the whole seat, so to say, but at least I'm not fat, just a bit large for airplane seats! | |||
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I see things from Arts point of veiw.If someone puts one of these devices on the back of my seat I will politely ask him to remove it .If it does not come off post haste I will walk around my seat and commence to whip some ass until the device has been removed.And for all you tough guys who say it can't happen try getting up out of that cramped little seat with me standing over you dealing out a courtesy lesson. I am just as entitled to that recliner space as the guy who is behind me.And chances are he will wish to recline his seat at some point also. Least anyone suggest that I am unreasonable i would concede to remain upright during meals.After that it is movie/nap time and I will be reclining the six inches that those comfy little seats allow...eyedoc | |||
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Martin... where did you get this picture | |||
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Quote: Just out of curiosity, what if he has such long legs that even without the knee thingie his knees hit your seatback even before you recline? What if there is just no room? Do you still push back on your seat until his knee pops? | |||
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Of course not. You have to live with a poor hand delt. I sometimes wonder, though, if there ought not to be some size stipulations imposed. I'm thinking more of the fat lady (or man)--you've all seen it, even if you haven't had to deal with it--the lady comes along and plops into the seat that she is WAY too large for, taking a large portion of the seat or seats beside her. If you happen to be in one of those seats, you are SOL. Is that right? I mean hell, you paid for a seat, and that fat lady only paid for 1, but you end up with less than 1 and her more than 1, not to mention your discomfort. The same thing could apply to long legs at some point. Because a guy is long legged, is he entitled to part of the seating area I paid for? More than the unit he paid for? Again, at my comfort expense. Something to think about. | |||
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Just as long as she don't start singing. It ain't over till the fat lady sings! Rich Elliott | |||
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Quote: Let the fighting commence. My last flight home, on whatever plane it was, the seat was against my knees while in the upright position. Then the inconsiderate individual just hits the release button, and commences to push his seatback into the reclined position. He seemed to have trouble. He seemed to be experiencing some resistance. Yeah, it was resistance all right. It was my #$!#@$# knees already jammed into the back of his seat. Now, my butt was already to the back of my seat, my knees were already against the front of HIS seat, and this guy is PUSHING his seat back! I really don't care if it means I fight about it or not. I don't care if one or both of us gets hauled off the plane. I've been in jail before, more than once, and it's not so bad. They feed you, the cops talk to you about guns, and for me, it's better than backing down. I won't back down. When I want to put my seat back, I turn around and ask the individual behind me if he/she objects. I'd like the same courtesy. I'm 46. I just don't care anymore. If someone has a hard time accepting that I don't want my knees shoved back in such a way as to attempt to co-locate them with my hips, well, we're going to fight. And I'm tall enough I don't really have to stand up to fight anyone leaning over me. I learned a lot of patience in Iraq. I learned a lot of tolerance... I really did. I learned to put up with a lot of things... but I also learned I just refuse to put up with people who wish to inflict pain upon me when I did nothing to aggress against them. Airline people: I live in Silvis, Illinois. I'm not hard to find. If you've got a problem with my blocking my seat up or beating on the guy in front of me who is trying to pulverize my knees... come find me. Russ | |||
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Quote: Yeah, he probably does. See my previous post. Russ | |||
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Damn, this computer pisses me off. Mr. Taylor, I typed you up a nice civil reply and this god damned thing locked up again. I'll try once again. Mr. Taylor, I do see your point, but do you also see mine from the above post? (I didn't say anything about fighting). I paid for my spot, my area, the same as you did. Because you are large, should I be forced to be uncomfortable because I can't push my seat back? (And you are young, as you stated, so it's harder on me). Because you are larger than I, should I have to sacrifice some of the area I paid for, while you get extra? At the same price? I'm not after a hassle, Mr. Taylor, only pointing out food for thought. Also, I wouldn't be inconsiderate of you, but if you think about it, aren't you being inconsiderate of me if you force me to keep my seat up, hence be uncomfortable? Have I not been short changed if I can't occupy the area I paid for? Hell, I've been on flights where the seat in front of me absolutely could not be brought even to 90 degrees upright because it was solid against my knees. The person in front of me literally had to lean forward the entire flight. And I've been on flights where the seats in front of me had broken catches and laid completely back on me, in my lap. And in both cases the plane was completely full, so there were no options to change. Maybe they should sell tickets by the cubic inch, or by the inch and pound. | |||
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Instead, check the seating charts & get a seat up front in a row w/o a row of seats in front of yours. Another thought is get an aisle seat so you can stretch your legs out along side the seat in front. | |||
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I have been brought up with the notion that it is bad form to recline a seat, even after asking, unless it is a very long flight and the person behind is smal, and one can assume that he or she want a nap as well... I can usually manage to sleep and relax also in somewhat uncomfortable positions so I guess I am lucky. My worst experience so far was when someone unknown - on the side, in front or behind - was farting abominable at regular intervals. I can assure you that the atmosphere in that part of the cabin was tense in more then once sense. Regards, Martin | |||
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fred338, I've been that route. You fall asleep and the stewardess runs over your feet with the whiskey cart Rich Elliott | |||
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Exactly what I was going to say. I always get isle seats, as they do afford a bit more room, but as Mr. Elliott pointed out, your feet get stepped on and run over, and every joker that goes by, including the stewardesses, hit your arm and shoulder, count on it. If you're asleep, they'll hit it extra hard. And those front rows (if available) aren't so good either. No, nobody tips their seat back into you, but you generally have even less room in front of you than in regular seats. And no table or a useless table that is stored in the arm rest. Those emergency row seats are generally the best bet if you can get them, but they are often hard to get. | |||
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Quote: No, you didn't; EyeDoc did. You'll note my quote/reply was to him, above. We all paid money. We're all not 6'5" with a lot of leg. To the other guy about "just" getting a seat with no row of seats in front... the movie screen seats aren't much better for me, the bulkhead seats are awful, and I try and try to get emergency-row seats but you can't reserve them except with a letter from God. When I get onboard, I check out to see who is sitting in "my" emergency-row seats -- and it's usually a bunch of pygmies under 6' tall, some old lady, or whomever. All you have to do is testify (with no Bible handy to make it official) that you can open the emergency door and help passengers exit seats. Regardless, it's RARE that I see BIG people, like me, sitting in those seats. I, personally, feel that pygmies should sit in seats made for pygmies, and us big guys (who can't afford first-class seating) should at least get the emergency-row seats. I have arthritis in various places, which already makes me uncomfortable in the BEST of circumstances on a flight, but having people apathetically recline their seats into my knees just cuts it. It doesn't matter much, Arts. No one's going to build bigger planes just to save my knees. That's the way it is. Oh... sorry about your computer giving you fits. Been there, done that. Russ | |||
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Nothing pains me more than to see the old ladies sitting in the emergency exits. There is NO WAY they can open those doors or even pick one up. | |||
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I'm with Arts & Eyedoc on this subject. You pay your airfare to ride in a small seat that reclines. You have every right to recline the seat if you desire to do so. The person behind you has every right to recline their seat as well. If you can't live with that, pay for business class or 1st class. You can't afford it, then live with the seat that you can afford. With the logic of "I'm bigger, you are smaller, I should get more space for the same price", you must be voting for John Kerry. Russ, if you turned around behind you to ask the person if you could recline your seat, and that person (a 5 foot "pygmy") said no, I highly doubt that you would just say "OK" and forget about it. My bet is that you would go on a rant about your size and need for additional space and your right to recline your seat. Funny thing is, I'm 5'9" and 170 lbs. Seats are not comfortable to me, but I can survive (I fly roundtrip LAX to London at least once a year). Now, for my hunting partner Mark "N'gagi" Jackson, he will not appreciate my point of view. He is about 6'7" and 270 lbs. (a guess). On August 12th, we fly LAX - JFK - JoBurg - Harare and then back again. I asked Steve Turner of Gracy Travel to put me in the aisle behind Mark I figure that if there is somebody next to me that I don't want to sit next to, the person sitting next to Mark will be happy to trade seats with me. I'm sure that Mark will make a great pillow for the flight over. Then it is 2 ambien (sp?) and "Hello Africa". By the way, if I do end up sitting behind Mark, the answer is "Yes", I will allow him to recline his seat. Now, all you big people, "Flame On" Tim | |||
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Tim I agree with you. Why should someone who is too big to sit in a Coach Seat make the person in front of him suffer too? I was on the aisle seat on an Alaskan flight when a BIG Guy came to sit in the middle seat. He was so large he wanted to pull up both armrests so he could get his fat butt in the seat. I said no way and as he couldn't fit into the seat without the armrest up the argument started. The Stewerdess, or flight attendant or whatever they are called nowdays, told me he had bought his ticket and had a right to sit there. I said so had I and so did I. It was not my fault he couldn't fit. The Chapter concluded with me being tossed off the plane. I went to customer relations at Dulles and ended up with a Hotel room for the night. A First Class ticket home. I also recieved two more First Class Round trips on any Alaska destination. If you're too big to sit in Coach than upgrade or buy another seat. It is not your right to force other people to be uncomfortable on a flight they also paid for because of your size. | |||
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http://seatguru.com/ Welcome to SeatGuru.com, the source for airplane seat information. Do you have a long flight coming up and want a quiet seat? Could you really use some extra legroom? Do you keep getting stuck in a seat that doesn't recline? Have you paid extra for Business Class and want the best seat? To find the best airline seats in First Class, Business Class or Coach, select the airline and aircraft you're flying using the menu on the left. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Re: Knee Defender for airline seats.
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