If you hit the brain it doesn't matter what the caliber is. If you miss the brain, then a bigger bullet means a bigger headache. THe more stunned you ele is, the better you opportunity to get a 2nd shot into him, or at least turn the charge.

450 3 1/4

The 500/416 is a great double rifle caliber for all round use, in particular, ideal for Lion with a detachable scope. But for Ele in the Jesse Bush the hard hitting but not to heavy 500NE is ideal IMO.
Adam C.

Split the difference and stick with the classic 470 NE.

Please give me the reasoning for your 470 N E position.

JohnAir, same question for you please.

Disclaimer:
I HAVE NEVER BEEN TO AFRICA!

That having been said I think that there is not much difference in the killing power of adequate calibers on game and thus I opt for what I can shoot most often, most accurately and fastest. The 450 3 1/4 uses easily available .458 bullets and brass is also easy to get, recoil is milder and I´ll bet I could do some real damage once I put 500 rounds down the tubes to get to know the girl. I was just talking to B. Searcy last week and this is the caliber that I requested for my first double. My big bore now is a 416 rigby and I also have a 375 weatherby done on a brno 602. All modesty aside, I am pretty good with the 416 and don´t see any reason to go much bigger except for that magic "5" out front of the caliber designation. I don´t see any diference in the way the 375 and 416 kill buff and other game here in Arg.
FWIW

Thanks JohnAir, your caliber choice reasoning is much appreciated.

My Double happens to be a 470NE and find it great for many reasons such as the one Shumba stated, also Amunition availability.
Next one will most likely be a 450/400 with a detachable 1.25to4 Schmidt&Bender scope.

BFJ
Either double well handle will serve you well.
I have fired both the 500/416 and 2 different 500 Nitro's.
The 500's have quite a bit more recoil, the 500/416 has great utility for a big bore for North American game especially big bears.

I have shot 2 buff and 3 elephants with my 450 No2 with excellent performance.

Pick the double you like the best.
PS I shot a Krieghoff 500/416, and I have shot a Searcy 500 Nitro, both were very accurate and handled very well.

Like John Air for my first double I like the .458 bore.
I bought my 450 No2 and my 450/400 3 1/4" on the same day.
I really like the different bullets avaialable for the 458 bore... But the 450/400's are great calibers. Fore the "modern" African hunter the 450/400 may be the best choice.
The 500/416 being the slightly more powerful equivilent to the 450/400's.

Just speaking for me. . . .
500/416
Better penetration with the long .416 bullet. More usuable on more game.
I hate the recoil of the 500!

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
If you hit the brain it doesn't matter what the caliber is. If you miss the brain, then a bigger bullet means a bigger headache. THe more stunned you ele is, the better you opportunity to get a 2nd shot into him, or at least turn the charge.

I have to agree fully.

For a rifle dedicated to elephant hunting, and expecting a full bore charge, there is no contest, IMO! I'd take the 500NE in a heart beat. I have a 470NE, and what I was looking for when I bought it was a 500NE, but the 470NE was a bargain I simply couldn't pass! If you get the 500NE and decide you don't like it, let me know, and I'll work a deal with you in a trade for a 470NE! My 470NE has taken two elephant, and two Cape Buffalo with one shot each, so it is up to the task. These animals weren't taken by me, but by the previous owner!

NOW! If you are intending for this to be your only double rifle, then I, like most other's here, would go for one of the .450 bores, simply because of the availability of componants, at a reasonable price. I don't think I'd buy a 500/416 under any cercumstance. If I were to go for a .400 bore, it would be a 450/400NE 3".

.500 NE

You hit with a bigger hammer when the stuff hits the fan.

I vote with Shumba and ozhunter: 470 NE. Wish I had one.

Tough choice. I own a 500/416 and think it is a fine caliber. It took only one shot from this rifle to down my elephant this past May. I did hit him with 3 more while he was down just to make certain. I have fired 2 500 doubles and one converted Ruger No. 1. The recoil from the doubles was substantially greater than my 416, but they hit harder also. The recoil from the 7.5 lbs Ruger was as Ganyana says "a religious experience." However, the recovery time between shots was about double...so if you don't get it done with the first shot you will be a bit slower with the second from the 500. If I was buying a dedicated elephant rifle for hunting in the Jesse I would opt for the 500 and make certain of my first shot.

Perry

577 NE ( 3.25 inch )

Brad

I've got a .470NE. I've killed buffalo and elephant with it. I've also killed feral hogs with it here in the US numbering into the dozens. I've become so comfortable with the rifle that I make 100 and 150 yards shots with it all the time. I’ve even knocked a few over at longer ranges than that. It is just about the perfect round for African DG and it is flat shooting enough that it'll work for the occasional plains game critter as well. I find the recoil to be quite manageable.

If you become comfortable with your rifle it'll do amazing things for you. So either round mentioned will work just fine if the shooter does his part.

HOWEVER if I was to have a dedicated elephant rifle I would have a .500NE just because it does give you more hit on elephants. Possibly allowing you that critical few moments to get the job done with #2 if #1 wasn't just quite right on that charging jumbo.

I also would go with a .450/400 if I was to get a .400 bore double just for posterity sake.
So to answer the question of the two cartridges mentioned, my vote would go to the .500 for an elephant gun. It would go to the .500/416 for a general dg hunting rifle.


But I still have to say that the .470NE is just about the perfect double round as far as power, accuracy and components are very readily available.

Sorry guy I'm a .470 geek

Although you didn't specifically ask regarding other calibers in a dangerous game rifle, I am with Surestrike and the others regarding the .470 NE. I have killed elephant and buffalo with mine and believe it to be the perfect caliber for a dangerous game double rifle given the availability of cartidges, recoil, etc. etc.

If I had to pick between the 500/416 and the 470 I would choose the 470 without a doubt. If you are looking for an elephant gun the 500 has the extra horsepower that might, and if you hunt enough ele's wil, come in handy. I'm not saying the 470 isn't a great round, everyone knows it is, but if it were me I would get the 500.

Hey Vaughn

Just got off the phone to Butch :

MY 577 NE, 3.25 INCH HAS BEEN ORDERED
DE-LUX BOXLOCK WITH SIDEPLATES.

Brad

I agree with an earlier post that either is fine if the brain is struck. If the brain is missed slightly, the 500 will be more likely to turn the charge and give you a better second shot. When you are 10 yards from an elephant, they are both going to feel puny to you! I used a 416 Rigby on my first elephant hunt and the first thing I did when I returned home was trade into a 500.

Congrats, did he say when the expected delivery date was? Also I thought the 577 was a 3"...Is there a 3.25 and a 3" and if so what is the difference in performance?

I have to tell you all I am very greatful for all the feedback, this site is a great service for we who are not as experienced as some of you! I'd like a better understanding of why some of you would want the 450/400 - @ 2150 FPS velocity instead of the 500/416 @near 2400 FPS velocity Please elaborate!

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
I used a 416 Rigby on my first elephant hunt and the first thing I did when I returned home was trade into a 500.

(quoted for emphasis)

The 450/400 should weigh 9 1/2lbs or so. Recoil is reletively sedate. Performance is excellent and proven for over 100years. A 450/400 with a 400 grain soft or solid at 2125fps or 2150fps is a proven buffalo killer. Perhaps the perfect round for the task according to some. A 450/400 with a 400 grain solid at 2125 is a reliable elephant round too.

The 404 Jeffery was a go to standard and its reputation was also built on a 400grain solid at 2150.

Nothing wrong with the 500/416 but it isn't built on so light a gun, the recoil is greater and the performance of the 450/400 has never been wanting in a lighter, handier, lesser recoiling package.

JPK

quote:

Just got off the phone to Butch :

MY 577 NE, 3.25 INCH HAS BEEN ORDERED
DE-LUX BOXLOCK WITH SIDEPLATES.

Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Be sure to start a thread and post details when you get them!

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
I have to tell you all I am very greatful for all the feedback, this site is a great service for we who are not as experienced as some of you! I'd like a better understanding of why some of you would want the 450/400 - @ 2150 FPS velocity instead of the 500/416 @near 2400 FPS velocity Please elaborate!

BFJ,

The answer to your question in my case is the same reason I prefer the .30-06 over the big .300 mags.

The .450/400 is just enough and not to much.

Plus the ole posterity thing. I like traditional rounds.

You won't find a short mag anywhere in my house. You will find a bunch of 06, .308, .404,.375, .470 ETC.

More than anything it's a preference thing.

I hope that answers your question.

577

Thatnks for you best wishes - much appreciated

PM sent

Will post all the exact details in a new thread when I have them.

Trying to handle the inital dreaming phase, and get the sleeples nights under control.

Brad

Brad:

PM right back at ya.

Big Five JacK:

I really shouldn't weigh in here because I never fired at an elephant. However I did fire about a half dozen rounds from my PH's 470 N.E. It was a most pleasant and enlightening experience. I was on (after the first shot because I had flinched. Fear of the unknown,etc) Like the 375 H&H it had a "push" to it rather than a "kick"and you guys know what I mean. Reading the other posts about people who have used the 470 N.E. on elephant, I was not surprised. It seems to me that using a caliber that will drop an elephant (if, like any bullet, it is well placed)AND most important of all, doesn't rattle one's brain in the skull is the best compromise. In plain words - shoot a rifle one is totally comfortable with. It insures better accuracy - and bullet placement always has been the name of the game. I would rather face an elephant with a rifle that I can drive nails with rather than a heavier caliber rifle I'm scared to death of. (and a flinch is a flinch whether you jump out of your skin or just flutter an eyelid. The only difference is in how much off the bullet will be from aim) Just my thoughts.

i love my 700 nothing says die like 1000 grains of fmj.

but for personal reasons i sold the 700 and went to a 505 shooting 600 grain bullets i will by a 577 double in the future.

What is the weight difference between the two rifles?

There is a substantial diffeence in recoil unless you go to a heavier .500.

I would be realistic w yourself about recoil and weight.

Lots of great bullets for the 416. Less choice with the .500.

But of course, Id rather have a 500!!!

Andy

Butch says the 500/416 and the 470 recoil about the same... so I would take the 470 in that route.

with you having only presented a heavy medium and a big bore, the 500 is actually the only choice between the two, for the situation you are describing.

let me frame this.
the 416 rigby is NOT a stopping rifle. period.
the 500/416 is a double gun version of the same ballistics...
400gr at 2400


the 500 NE is a 570 at 2150 ... frequently loaded with 600gr at nearly the same.

If you shoot them side by side you'll soon see there's no relationship between a client's all around rifle and a purpose built stopping rifle.


jeffe

Hello all,
Kind of new here, i signed up a long time back but schedule hardly provides me time to enjoy this great forum.
That said...John Hunter shot the .500 when he could have shot others. Pondoro shot the 500 but is thought to have said if he were younger he would shoot the 577. Thats plenty of experience by my thinking.
A PAC hunt can put you or me in a life and death situation, i would try to shoot any big bore on your list of possibles and then make my choice based on how well i managed the recoil of each round. To hell with cost of components, you only get one life and we may as well go big or go home!

I too have a PAC hunt booked and i hope to be taking a 450 3 1/4" Greener i recently acquired. I am confident with that round but i would take a larger gun if i owned one that is vintage...a matter of taste, though i do like what B. Searcy is doing these days. Nice guns that appear to be a great value.

Have fun and shoot straight with a good bullet.

A freeman,

buy Buzz's McCallum's DVD on ele hunting...

"Hunting the African Elephant the complete guide"....

You will learn alot...
Just shot a Rigby 450 31/4 last Saturday...I shoot a 450#2...
I shot my ele with a 458 Lott...Was as close as 20 feet from eles...A 500 is in my opinion the way to go...

Mike

18 days till the Selous

My vote is for the .500 NE. I find the recoil from the .500 NE to be no worse than the .470 NE. Plus I like the notion of having a 570 grain bullet versus a 400 grain bullet. I had a Blaser S-2 in .500/.416, and I would rather shoot my .500 NE. The recoil in the Blaser was uncomfortable to me. If the question is what to use on a charging elephant, I am going to go with "bigger is better".

I would choose the .500 Nitro Express, without a moment's hesitation or the slightest second thought. Bigger bullet, by a hell of a lot, and plenty of velocity to get the job done.

As I have said before, unless one has been within a heavy stone's throw of a dozen disturbed and nervous 10,000 pound bull elephant, one cannot understand or appreciate how small a .416, or even a .458, can feel.

Those that can't choose a 500.

Just kidding.