Yokon

The elephant in the Save came from Gona-Re-Zhou. They typically charge without alot of provocation. The charge is typical- mock chage, pause, full charge. A shot high into the head will usually turn a cow. Bulls are a little less certain- alot more head and cushioning for the brain. Dam good shooting though.

When doing walk and stalk bow hunts on buffalo, a charge is not that uncommon either. You have to get inside the buffalo's safety zone to take the shot- therefore the buff is more likely to fight than to flee.

I think the bottom line in all this is, like you said, damn good shooting.

I'd want a double 500 NE at the absolute MINIMUM

if I knew that I would have to do, what this pro had
to do. 600 NE double all the better!!!

Good shooting! I know if you have nothing nice to say you shouldnt say but man that video is a mix of freddy mercury , a disco and and African safari. What a shocker and an insult to hunting in Africa! Lose the heavy guitar, skulls, candles, Lights and flashy stuff they dont belong on a hunting video and killing doesnt need to be glorified Hollywood style. Cut and edit but leave out the spicing up, it is good enough as is.

Hi Don, I can imagine those lowveld ellies are a bit meaner than the ones in the valley, and am not completely surprised as to why, with the amount of nonsense they have to put up with. I would think most elephant shot in the top of the head would probably survive, but may end up being a bit more wary, yet aggressive to people afterwards. I hope that there are still some animals left in Gona-Re-Zou these days, I have heard the poaching has been bad there? Cheers,
Nzou.

Lot of armchair quarterbackin' going on around here.

I'm just going to throw my 2 cents in here since everybody else has. In my opinion, it would NEVER be acceptable to purposely shoot an elephant above the brain in an effort to turn it........I think that is beyond inhumane. You either shoot above his head (or thru an ear) when he's at 30 yards or you wait till he's at 10-15 yards and give him 2 thru the brain. Sorry if I get anybody's feathers ruffled but that's just the way I feel about it..........NO HIGH HEAD SHOTS!!

ES,

I have to give credit to the PH if he let that elephant come as close as he did and still only shot high into the skull to try to turn it. But wearing a white hat didn't help the situation either!

In all the accounts I have read of the old elephant hunters I have never run across any one of them ever finding a dead elephant from a missed brain shot, and must think it is a rather easily recoverable wound. After all, one reads about elephants that were killed and the hunter finds bucket loads of bullets that the elephant had been carrying around from previous wounds for a long time.

If had been me I would have been shooting for the brain from the start. It is damn scary experience, and I suspect most guys would be doing the same.

My hat (white or otherwise) is off to the camera man who was also in line to become a grease stain, but stayed and kept filming........

Will, I would probably agree with you on elephants surviving head-shots, but there is obviously a risk of developing a bad infection. I don't think a head-shot would be a problem with blowflys, they can be pretty bad with wounds on game elsewhere on the body. I believe that ellie bulls can pick up some horriffic injuries when fighting, especially 2 large bulls in full musth. I have heard of tusks going deep into skulls, with the elephant surviving, but obviously leaving a big hole in the head!

What kind of court proceedings does the PH have to go through after something like this?

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:

quote:

Originally posted by David W:

They were also charged by a cow buffalo on the same hunt, with the same result.

They had to shoot 2 charging animals on the same hunt? That's unusual.

Unusual yes, but certainly not unknown. A few years back WILL and I were both at Charisa at the same time although not together. We were both charged by cow elephants within a couple of days of each other. Both charges resulted in the cows having to be shot.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
ES,

I have to give credit to the PH if he let that elephant come as close as he did and still only shot high into the skull to try to turn it. But wearing a white hat didn't help the situation either!

In all the accounts I have read of the old elephant hunters I have never run across any one of them ever finding a dead elephant from a missed brain shot, and must think it is a rather easily recoverable wound. After all, one reads about elephants that were killed and the hunter finds bucket loads of bullets that the elephant had been carrying around from previous wounds for a long time.

If had been me I would have been shooting for the brain from the start. It is damn scary experience, and I suspect most guys would be doing the same.

I'm with you Will. I wonder what might have happened with a more powerful rifle, maybe the first shot would have stopped the charge, or turned the ele.

For ES's benefit, self defense is inside 10yds.

If the incident occured in the Save, it occured on private land. We had to kill a charging cow last time I hunted there. Roger Whittall, whose Humani Ranch is in the Save and with whose outfit I was hunting told me it took a phone call to the Parks Dept and delivery of hide and ivory since it wasn't shot under any Parks approved management plan. But it was no big deal and didn't require an inquiry. Probably both because of the private land and the fact that Save eles are so damned aggressive.

Recall also the tracker killed by a bull last year in the Save at the Duckworth's Makore ranch.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
A couple pointers for myself;
No White hat
No Bow
One heavy caliber rifle and preferably in double for Jumbo but if only after Plains game in Ele country, minimum 9.3.

Oz hunter,

This is funny but I think well advised. We were charged in the Save on one occasion when we were able to make it back to the truck since we were but a few yards from the truck and the cow eles started from maybe 75yds. I was carrying a 375H&H full of soft points. When we next got out of the truck, I put a soft up the spout and solids in the mag. I keep it that way now, no matter what we're after.

JPK

Who was it that lost a tracker last year to an ele in front of the client? I can't remember but the tracker had been with the PH for a long time. Pretty sad.

I don't know how to insert the web link, but you guys should look up Razor Dobbs on My Space.com. He's listed in San Antonio. Once there, hold your breath and proceed to his website Trophy X.com on the blog page. Holy Crap! You will quickly see why there was video insertion with mojo voodoo bull shit. If I was the PH, I'd think I'd like to wring this "hunter's scrawny neck."

Don't forget the statement of killing a whitetail at 180 yards with a Glock 10mm, all documented on video. Elmer Kieth move over old man, you've been out done!!

Does anyone see the resemblance to a certain Mark Sullivan?

quote:

Who was it that lost a tracker last year to an ele in front of the client? I can't remember but the tracker had been with the PH for a long time. Pretty sad.

Pete Fick

That's right. Thanks. That was a bad situation.

Pucker-factor for sure. He did a good job to stop that Ele that close.

Here is the website from my previous post about Razor Dobbs from above.

.http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=58915374

Here a link to this Dobbs guys site as you can see the PH has nothing to do with the music, skulls ect. in the video its all a part of this Dobbs guys act. So dont go flaming the PH for all the other bullshit in the video, save the flaming for his client Razor Dobbs if you want to bullshit around.



http://web.mac.com/razordobbs/iWeb/Trophy%20X%20site/Home.html

Let's get that straight...the PH is 100% legit. The bowhunter on the other hand has been getting into the medicine cabinet.

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:
Who was it that lost a tracker last year to an ele in front of the client? I can't remember but the tracker had been with the PH for a long time. Pretty sad.

I met Peter a few days after the incident.
From what I have heard the Tracker was suppose to carry Peters 375H&H for such a situation, on this quick hunt for a warthog they only had the clients 30/06 and although a bullet to the head saved Peter, It unfortunately wasn't enough to get the bull out of there without it finding some one else .

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:
Who was it that lost a tracker last year to an ele in front of the client? I can't remember but the tracker had been with the PH for a long time. Pretty sad.

I met Peter a few days after the incident.
From what I have heard the Tracker was suppose to carry Peters 375H&H for such a situation, on this quick hunt for a warthog they only had the clients 30/06 and although a bullet to the head saved Peter, It unfortunately wasn't enough to get the bull out of there without it finding some one else .

Getting caught with your pants down is pretty rare, but goes to show that old axiom is still true about when in elephant country .....

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

I'm with you Will. I wonder what might have happened with a more powerful rifle, maybe the first shot would have stopped the charge, or turned the ele.

JPK

In my limited experience there was in my mind no doubt about that elephant; he was just plain coming. I doubt he was going to be "turned" no matter what.

If the PH had missed the brain, there would have been some serious whoop-ass going on. He was lucky.

Just wondering - is there a difference in determinance between a serious charge of a "normal" elephant bull and a bull in musth?

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

Getting caught with your pants down is pretty rare, but goes to show that old axiom is still true about when in a elephant country .....[/QUOTE]

How true.

I dont get this video.....Looks alot like a Mark Sullivan show.....If they were not hunting elephants, why were they tracking it????At the start the PH says if something happens dont move- clearly they were after these elephants.Also if they were not after elephants, why didnt they back off when they saw the elephant???Instead they kept approaching it....No PH would approach an elephant like this unless he wanted a charge.Remember they could have backed off, but that would not be good video.....

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:
I dont get this video.....Looks alot like a Mark Sullivan show.....If they were not hunting elephants, why were they tracking it????At the start the PH says if something happens dont move- clearly they were after these elephants.Also if they were not after elephants, why didnt they back off when they saw the elephant???Instead they kept approaching it....No PH would approach an elephant like this unless he wanted a charge.Remember they could have backed off, but that would not be good video.....

I wondered the same thing. Why approach this elephant if they were not, supposedly, hunting it?

Obviously they wanted some film footage.

465H&H

And they got it. That was the only thing I didn't understand...those last steps to get clear when they weren't hunting it. You could see the ele didn't care for it in advance.

The how or why they got in that situation only they know. The end result was good shooting at close range to save someone's arse.

Could someone explain the white hat comments about causing a charge?

quote:

Originally posted by 375fan:
The how or why they got in that situation only they know. The end result was good shooting at close range to save someone's arse.

Could someone explain the white hat comments about causing a charge?

The comments refer to the high visibility the hat gives to elephants, and once you are inside an eles "personal" zone and then detected some are more likely to come at you in attack than to run away in fear. Especially the elephants in the Save Conservancy, which are pretty bad tempered and very aggressive.

Ian Nychens, renowned mid toward late 20th Century elephant poacher and recounteur, wrote in his book "Months of the Sun" that he would at times wear a white hat to illicit charges to shorten hunts and bring them to an earlier conclusion, especially in thick bush.

JPK

There are damn few folks in this world that I trust implicitly enough to stand an elephant charge while I point a camera. Either the camera man was held in place by his testicles dragging the ground, or he needs remedial training in the "fight or flight" response...

quote:

Originally posted by Acer:
There are damn few folks in this world that I trust implicitly enough to stand an elephant charge while I point a camera. Either the camera man was held in place by his testicles dragging the ground, or he needs remedial training in the "fight or flight" response...

Why approach an elephant if you were not intending to hunt it?

My guess is that the PH wanted to give his client the experience of being close to such a magnificent creature. Perhaps the client had never seen an elephant in the bush.I know on my hunts in this same area on two trips my PH purposely got us good looks at elephants and I thanked them for it. Remember the experience quite fondly.

You can get incredibly close to elephant without them even knowing you are there, and it is also very easy to walk into them accidentally, especially when you are walking or especially hunting (I am sure many hunters will testify to this), as you usually walk into the wind when hunting. Their eye-sight is relatively poor, but one snap of a twig or crackle of leaves or grass (especially in winter) and those large ears will hear it and locate you, unless there is a strong wind blowing of course. I have always been surprised how quiet they can be too when on the move. You sometimes have to make a 90 degree detour in such instances! However, if you are very quiet, the elephant will probably not even know you are there, unless the wind starts to swirl and change direction. I think that they obviously wanted to get some pics, but someone probably made an audible noise.... and the rest is history. If it had not been a lowveld Zim ellie (and in musth!) it may well have just put on a little charge, head-shake of dissapproval, and maybe vented his anger on a bush or shrub and that would have been the end of it.

Wow I would need to change my pants after that...

In defense of the PHs headgear, grey or khaki color appears to be white when videod especially if the gain is not right. If you notice the hat and his shorts are the same color so I'm sure he wasn't wearing white shorts. They were probably both khaki and just looked white. Other than that I could have done without the music and skulls. Not sure what that was supposed to mean???

White or light Khaki, both are a problem in bright conditions imo.