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Dave, Loosen up mate. Someone just injected a bit of humour into the thread and by your own admission, it WAS funny.  | |||
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Steve, I wonder how it is that you always seem to know what my frame of mind is? Loosen up? What is that supposed to mean? I am very 'loose' thanks. Yes, I thought it was funny, thanks for reiterating that in case anyone missed what I wrote...The fact remains, however, that NOBODY here is supporting anderson and his cronies, but yet some guys just pound away regardless. As soon as someone says anything in support of SCI, they get pounced upon. This comment is not directed at you or your funny post Mr Dollar. Dave | |||
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Dave, Didn't you know how good my crystal ball is? I'm sure the comment was just tongue in cheek, was aimed to pull the legs of the SCI defenders and meant to get a laugh rather than was a barbed comment. I don't think his comment was supposed to suggest that the aforementioned gentlemen were defending the actions of those dodgy SCI members who have been, at least unethically, if not illegally defending the OoA mob. I for one though it was funny as hell but I hope you'll excuse me for saying that I rather suspected you might not feel the same way! By 'loosen up' I meant perhaps you should try to see the funny side and not take the comment or yourself quite so seriously.  ADDED As for your comment: "As soon as someone says anything in support of SCI, they get pounced upon" You'll excuse me for saying so, but that comment is utter tosh. This board thrives on healthy debate and one could equally say as soon as someone criticises SCI in any way, they get pounced on. All it is is two points of view being debated and discussed. Or do you think that anyone who disagrees with your point of view shouldn't be allowed to comment? Perhaps you should look at us few who do criticise SCI as the voice of the silent majority who speak what others think but for one reason or another feel they cannot say.  | |||
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100% with you Dave! The rehtoric about SCI ANYTIME someone mentioned SCI in ANY context got old.......a long time ago. For the most part I've just stopped trying to explain because some people are too fixated on certain SMALL aspects of a MINORITY of SCI's members to listen to anyone else. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Dave, My comments were perfectly valid and I'm sure that if the mods thought otherwise, they'd have let me know I can't express my opinion. You might also like to re-read my posts because I haven't criticised SCI members or as a whole anywhere. In fact, I've repeatedly said we shouldn't turn this issue into an SCI witch hunt and/or throw the baby out with the bath water. What I have done is criticise certain aspects of SCI and more especially, some of the upper echlons of the corporation and their behaviour when it came to OoA........ and you know what....... they bloody well deserve every word of it! - I also proved my point about the donation scheme with links to their own website and using the figures posted there used simple mathmatics to prove my point...... which incidentally, you dismissed with the statement that you're not a businessman and don't understand those things. Mate, a six year old could understand the mathmatics of the figures I posted, so I fail to understand how you cannot.  No, I didn't accuse you of insulting me. I said your attempt to use insults etc didn't win debates and that it took proveable facts and figures to do that...... and I provided those facts and figures. As I said, I didn't feel insulted at all. I will say that some SCI defenders seem to think they can win a debate with bluster and BS and the volume of that usually increases when they're faced with facts and figures........... In fact, I don't think I've ever seen any facts and figures that reflect anything good about the corporation at all. (Note, I'm not criticising the ordinary members there. Just the corporation and it's upper echelons who guide it) ADDED Oh, and as you're not a businessman and don't understand simple figures, it might help if I give you this link http://www.grandcharity.org/da..._19822009_apr_10.pdf to prove how a large organisation can publish their expenditures..... in this case, for the last 30 years. If this lot can do it, why can't SCI? Bring on the bluster & BS!  | |||
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With all due respect Steve saying those members are SCI is about as valid or accurate as saying Barrack Obama is America or Robert Mugabe is Zimbabwe. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Brett, I don't understand your comment. It reads to me as though you agree with my sentiment that I shouldn't blame the ordinary members for what has happened? - Which is what I said. Perhaps you could explain? | |||
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Never the less they are not SCI. We (all the members) are SCI. And we do a lot of good. They may do some stupid, hypocritical, bad, ect things from time to time, but what leadership doesn't. That does not negate the good that SCI does every day on a local level, on a national level, and on an international level. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Steve, When did I 'attempt' to insult you? You really do harp on about nothing, don't you? You are actually attempting to insult me with your suggestion that a six year old could understand figures that I can't. Please, I don't care about your figures and I said as much when you posted them. Your figures had nothing to do with what I was debating. In any case, you admitted when you posted them that they were an approximation, so please could you tell me who could possibly understand them, whatever age they may be? You are the one who tries to bullshit everyone with your figures and links. Are you really so gullible that you swallow everything you read on the internet and use it as conclusive evidence? Why don't you get a page going re the workings of SCI on the shakariconnection, so that everyone can see what the real deal is? 'I'm sure that if the mods thought otherwise, they'd have let me know I can't express my opinion'. This is really so childish, like a school boy. Steve, let me assure you mate, that if I wanted to insult you I would. But I would do it to your face. With you, everyone else is wrong. You think you are such an authority. You have repeatedly downed SCI on this forum for ages, don't try and pretend that this OOA issue is what you are so concerned with. You have always had an issue with SCI, but I'm sure they don't give a fig and neither do I. Everybody wants to see OOA and their cronies punished, what don't you understand about that? Now you also have the chance to bring on some more of your endless bluster and bullshit. Bye, David | |||
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And let me remind you that all this began yesterday with your ridiculous post about how we should stick to the topic and you don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water or whatever, but by the by chaps, let me just tell you what is wrong with the SCI donation system.... Defies belief and I don't even know why I bother responding to conflict-seeking tripe like that. You want to gun SCI because they are SCI, simply that. This OOA saga has just given you an excuse to mount your soapbox. | |||
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Brett, Thanks buddy. You've made my point for me. I keep saying it's not the ordinary membership that are to blame. The ONLY ones that should be taken to task are the upper echelon that have protected OoA for years despite their guilt being well known. - Actually, my guess is even they don't resign voluntarily (and I suspect the won't) then they'll be removed when they start getting their collars felt......... David, If you re-read my posts and indeed your own, you even apologised to me if I felt you'd insulted me and I told you an apology wasn't necessary. As for childish, you might like to review the thread and then you might consider it's not me that's behaving like a kid and stamping and screaming because you can't get your own way but you. I'm the one that's behaving like an adult and giving proveable, facts and figures as a proper adult does. Mate, I can only refer you to my previous comments about bluster & bullshit etc not winning debates. You're not related to Ray Atkinson are you?  And before you start getting out of your pram on that one as well, I was pulling your leg! | |||
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Yeah, well, no worries, I surrender, I don't have the time. But just so you know I am not worked up at all, contrary to what you are trying to make yourself/others believe. You cannot get me worked up Steve, you have absolutely no inkling of the adversity I've faced and overcome the past year or so. Your opinions on SCI are really of no concern to me, I just need to teach myself not to react to all the bullshit I read because at the end of the day I don't have time to involve myself with pointless banter. You have your views, I have mine, so be it. One request... Please may I ask you to refrain from posting blatantly contradictory posts - I don't want to fight but let me just throw the first punch - which may tempt me to waste more time? You don't have to of course - I'm sure the mods will back you up on this - just a request. And I don't need to re-read my posts, I know what I wrote even if I can't follow your absurd figuring as well as a 6 year old child could..... I hope Dawie Groenewald and kev Anderson etc reap the whirlwind. And I know that SCI do so much good for hunting worldwide. Peace. David | |||
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Oops, forgot this....When I apologized for insulting you, it was kind of tongue in cheek (something you know all about eh?), because I could honestly not see where I had. Just thought you were a bit of a softy and I should apologize before you started crying. You obviously don't know what it's like to really be insulted. Peace this time, for sure, I promise. I will allow you one more dig without responding, my word. Now that's fair play eh? | |||
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No proveable sources, facts or figures then Ray? - Ooops, sorry, David. But you're right about one thing mate..... Those that sew the wind deserve to reap the whirlwind and I know we both hope that will happen! | |||
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Ja, I did chuckle, I confess. Oops, I'm not supposed to be responding eh? After all, I have surrendered unconditionally.....The British win again, even if it is by default and underhand means.....Damn! What am I doing - this comment will spark off another set to, no doubt! I must keep reminding myself that I don't have the time.... Cheers Steve. | |||
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 How about we all get go and get pissed, have a punch up and stagger off down the road singing arm in arm at the end of it all? Re-convene for a fry up the next (mid)afternoon-ish? Proper beer of course. | |||
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Always a pleasure to debate with you David....... And hey, the world is built on simple science and as long as they're proveable and correct, facts and figures can never be wrong. OK, so I admit the name error was a tad underhand but glad you found it as funny as I did and I'll buy the first beers as compensation!  Ghubert got it right on the beer! | |||
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Maybe we should just stick to the tea for now..... But not earl grey please! How about a pot of good old African Rooibos....You see Steve, I can't get worked up, I drink Rooibos! | |||
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Dave, I've no idea why but that Rooibos puts me straight to sleep! It's a nice cuppa though...... and certainly better than the southern African beers! | |||
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What! How dare you! Do you have any facts to back up this allegation? | |||
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Well chaps, it appear the rows are going to start all over again.... Although You are surely right,I'd take Rooibos over Earl Grey any day of the week, perhaps I might be given opportunity to convert you godless heathens to the charms of a decent Assam with just a spot of milk or better yet Darjeeling with the merest whiff of lemon? | |||
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 Sir, do you deny the hallowed ale that is Fuller's Extra Special Best and it's brethren of the Order of the Proper Pint!?! Sir, have your second make contact with my second before evensong next! | |||
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If it's my choice of weapons, I choose cavalry swords! However, I'll add to my statement by saying that Castle & windhoek are like fizzy cat's piss. East African beers such as Safari and Kili are very acceptable and a pint of London Pride more acceptable still. Damn but I do miss London Pride!  Oh we can buy Darjeeling here now but I substitute the lemon for lime because I'm usually up to my neck in limes...... and very refreshing it is too. don't enjoy that American iced tea much though! | |||
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In that case and in what would be a ironically amusing inversion of that scene in Indiana Jones, I would choose a Webley .455 Steve.  | |||
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No dueling for me chaps, but I might snipe you from thick cover at dawn whilst you sip on your earl grey/darjeeling, as any true colonial would. Somewhere along the line, some smart colonial worked out that there's a 50% chance of losing a duel....And it's not the loss of dignity that's my concern.... As for the beer, I was advised not to indulge anymore by all those I encountered during my indulgent sessions of yesteryear. they said it gets me too worked up so I switched to rooibos.... | |||
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Great minds eh? | |||
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Damn, I not sure I can handle two duels at once. | |||
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Steve your point was SCI is a great organization doing great things at a local, national, and international level and that SOME of their crummy leadership of past or present do not make the organization nor should it reflect poorly on the organization as a whole, but soley on those people? Funny I wouldn't have guessed that after your last 1000 posts berating SCI! Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Brett, Then you didn't read my posts properly my friend and for that, you only have yourself to blame. I've repeatedly said I don't have a problem with the ordinary members at all. All the ones I've ever come across have been great guys, (usually) very good hunters and excellent company. I've also repeatedly said, my gripe is with the upper echelons who have behaved so badly (to say the least) and the ethics committee with regard to such things as the OoA debacle, and the donation scheme. I've also repeatedly said that I believe SCI could (note the word could) be an immense force for good for hunting if they would only change their focus and clean out the previously mentioned dodgy bastards. I've also in the past said that I don't really care much about their inner circles, banana twisters and candle sharpeners etc. Sure, I think it's silly, but hey, if it does it for them, that's fine by me. Y'know, As I see it, Alan is dead right when he says the people who protected OoA for so many years, when they knew the truth about them are just as much to blame for these dead rhinos as the guys who pulled the triggers......... but only those guys. Not the whole organisation and none of the ordinary members. And if you doubt those statements, I suggest you use the search function. You'll find plenty of threads to look in. | |||
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I knew you British types would get around to the tea sooner or later. If only ya'll would brew a good New Orleans blend coffe the world would be a better place and we could forget that silly TEA thing.    SSR | |||
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They already are an immense force for good. That's what I'm referring to. Your bad impression of the organizantion. You can't say "the SCI members are wonderful" and then turn around and say "but SCI is crap". There's a disconect there as the members are SCI. The inner circles, record book, scoring system are not SCI either. The members are SCI and AGAIN they do a lot of good every day on a local, national, and international level. I agree we need better leadership and I agree anyone who facilitated OOA should be hung from a yard arm! As Dave said I don't think anyone disagrees with that. The idea that SCI doesn't do anything good because of some of it's leadership being dodgy is "bollocks" to borrow a UKism. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Cross, I'll agree a really good cup of coffee is also great! Brett, You still miss my point. You say that "SCI already are an immense force for good" I think that comment is complete bollocks. I believe the organisation and many members claims the organisation does a lot of good but I've yet to see any evidence at all that the organisation itself spends even a fraction of what they make on doing anything at all for hunting. Sure, the individual members take blue bags etc across but thet's even at their own expense and they even have to pat the organisation for the blue bags! Lot's of people will claim the organisation does a lot of good but they always seem to be unable to back it up with proof such as published accounts etc and when challenged on that, usually resort to bluster, bullshit, pointless accusations and insults...... but despite that are unable to post links to published accounts etc. (such as I posted earlier) as proof of their claims. Consider what SCIs income must be and compare it to the income of John Jackson's Conservation force and then compare what SCI do compared to JJ and CF. The latter achieves 100 times more for hunters with a fraction of the SCI income. (IMO) SCI ordinary members are the salt of the earth but those in command are ripping them off to a breathtaking extent. I believe SCI could be an immense force for good but at the moment, they're doing next to bugger all when compared to their income and their ability. Here's a challenge for you. This mob can publish what they have given away for damn near the last 30 years. http://www.grandcharity.org/da..._19822009_apr_10.pdf I'll bet you a bottle of Ardbeg malt whisky that you can't publish openly available similar figures for SCI that date back even half that time. Will you take the bet? | |||
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DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Brett, So, after all that, you can't publish figures, can't provide proof other than the claim they spent US$200K out of what must be an income of tens of millions per annum, are suddenly not concerned about money, won't take my bet and suddenly don't have time for the debate? Not the best of counter arguments buddy!  C'mon Brett. You're an educated man. You MUST be able to do better than that! | |||
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When I was a Tea Planter in the 80s we actually did that you know. Even some of the senior managers would get a bit tipsy after a half bottle of rum or whiskey & be prepared to "go behind the shed"!! Those were the days...... "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Steve you're right. I give up! I'm calling SCI monday and resigning as a member! Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Naki, A bit tipsy after half a bottle....... damn, I'd be flat on my back long before I got to that much!  Brett, What really saddens me about the organisation is that they could achieve such an immense amount of good with the kind of budget, expertise and facilities they must have at their disposal and just think what a difference they could make to hunting worldwide if they committed even 25% of that income to those things. Hell, I might not even resent the donation scheme quite so much if they did that! | |||
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Steve, you and Brett got me so something or other, that I had to open my very last bottle of Glen Fiddich Special Reserve from a case I bought nine years ago and kill half of it to settle the bet. You are both right and wrong at the same time. Here's to JJ and the SCI chapters. Sip, sip, gulp... Rich | |||
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Mate, how can you type (let alone spell correctly) after drinking half a bottle of GF? You must have Afrikaaner blood in you! I'll drink to your toast but with coffee as it's early here! | |||
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