Very interesting and personally I have never hunted for a trophy but still seek the old bulls or the odd buck for the pot.

It is just good to be in big game country with a rifle and to pursue an animal is a privilege.

I foresee more of this style of hunting and the experience will outway the trophy.

Maybe taxidermists will get clever with three-dimensional replicas downloaded from photographs?

Import bans will not stop me from hunting Africa.

My trophies from 2009 got mishandled by the RSA outfitter and I never got them back. I don't miss them but still cherish the trip as my oldest son accompanied me and hunted on his own ticket.

My last bull elephant was hunted in December 2013, just before the ele ban went into place. I elected to have the hide tanned and taxidermy of additional animals taken, performed in Zim. By the time it was completed and ready to ship, the ban was in place. They remain in Zim. I do hope to bring them back some time as Conservation Force is trying to get the import approved, especially since the ele was hunted prior to the ban, but we will have to see. I don't regret going on the hunt at all.

As to future hunts, I remain undeterred. I hunt because I enjoy the experience of being in the field with rifle in hand, anticipating the possibility of success. Whether success comes or not does not affect my satisfaction at all, as long as I'm in a good area with a good outfitter with a good possibility of success.

I'd have no problem going after smaller, broken tusk ele bulls at a reduced costs and no opportunity of bringing it back.

I have two lions and two leopards mounted an in my trophy room. I don't anticipate another of either.

I expect to hunt many more buffalo and certainly have enough of them in my trophy room at this point. No need to bring more back.

Some interesting posts. Different lines of thinking.

Looking back, most hunters have not saved many of the trophies that they have taken over the years. Some never were even photographed.

Looking back at the many Grouse, pheasant, duck, goose, turkey, antelope, white tail deer, mule deer, caribou, moose taken over the years, I have very few photos to go with them. And a few have been mounted.

However I took a friend from Minnesota hunting and he mounted a prairie dog, thought it was great guns. That never crosse my mind as I have killed over 1,000+.

I had my first trip to Africa videoed (Tanzania, it was going to be my only trip to Africa), and it did not turn out even close to what I was expecting, and I have only watched it one time. And My trip to Zimbabwe, I have maybe 150 photos from it and there was not enough to do a photo book. A hunt to South Africa was somewhat as my camera became broken the 3 day into the trip. The PH drove off while was taking a photo and my camera fell out the window and it was out of service. Only saving grace for picture's of the trip was the PH shared his photos with me.

However I do have my last trip to Namibia in a photo book and another from South Africa in a photo book. I went with 2 camera's a pocket one and large format one.

So as with many hunts in the USA are alive I'm my mind as you think back on them.

Looking at future possibilities, I am not sure if I will be bringing anything back. The biggest issues is with the shipping expense as it can reach 40% of what your hunt cost. Then add on taxidermy and shipping and the expense grows.

I have missed out on sable over the years, I have been saving a spot by my desk for a pedestal mount. However that my become a place for a pedestal elk mount. That is a future possibility. More so looking at Hippo - Crocodile hunt or maybe even a non trophy elephant hunt, and not bring anything home.

I am at my house in Colorado, which was finished last month. It doesn't have a dedicated trophy room but the plan is to put a moose, leopard, and elk in the great room. I will put some trophies in my reloading room and perhaps my walk in vault, as well as my office.

But right now, I really don't miss taxidermy. I am looking out my office window at the snow covered Sangre de Cristo mountain. An hour ago a took a shot at my 715 yard gong from my shooting patio right out the door of my reloading room; last night I practiced offhand with a .22 from the same. There are tons of deer on my property, which border natl forest that has no public access.

I guess what I am saying is that when I am in Phoenix, taxidermy helps me to remember my hunts. But living in CO, off grid, where I can hunt right out of my back door, doesn't require taxidermy to enjoy the 1440 minutes in a day.

I also think the older you get, the more the experience matters. I hunt MN every year for deer; I have shot some nice ones, but that hunt is for the pot, and I enjoy it immensely.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I am at my house in Colorado, which was finished last month. It doesn't have a dedicated trophy room but the plan is to put a moose, leopard, and elk in the great room. I will put some trophies in my reloading room and perhaps my walk in vault, as well as my office.

But right now, I really don't miss taxidermy. I am looking out my office window at the snow covered Sangre de Cristo mountain. An hour ago a took a shot at my 715 yard gong from my shooting patio right out the door of my reloading room; last night I practiced offhand with a .22 from the same. There are tons of deer on my property, which border natl forest that has no public access.

I guess what I am saying is that when I am in Phoenix, taxidermy helps me to remember my hunts. But living in CO, off grid, where I can hunt right out of my back door, doesn't require taxidermy to enjoy the 1440 minutes in a day.

I also think the older you get, the more the experience matters. I hunt MN every year for deer; I have shot some nice ones, but that hunt is for the pot, and I enjoy it immensely.

Exactly what I wanted to hear.

If trophy imports are banned into New Zealand I probably wouldn't bother to hunt the unusual species in Africa. I would only hunt buffalo. There is hardly any room left in my two year old trophy room anyway. Just about room for the Sitatunga I'm supposed to hunt this year in Uganda. I think trophy rooms are like cowsheds. No one ever built one without wishing a few years later that they had built it bigger!
Photography is fine until Fairgame tells you to step out of the canoe into the shallow water to get steady enough to shoot a Kafue Lechwe. After you have sunk up to your neck in the soft mud you find your electronic camera doesn't like the wet. I haven't any photos of him but my shoulder mounted Lechwe reminds me of an exciting hunt!

I have very little interest in taxidermy.

I love to hunt and will continue to hunt in North America and Africa. I hunt for the experience not shoulder mounts.

I don't waste meat. In North America, I keep most of the meat for my family, but also donate some. In Africa, apart from baiting cats, I've never seen any meat wasted.

I have little room for more taxidermy now anyway. I'm booked to hunt lion this year with no real guarantee it will be importable. Don't know what will happen with importation or the virus, but I'm going anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Don't know what will happen with importation or the virus, but I'm going anyway.

You will be safer from the virus in Tanzania than in most any European country and the USA.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I have little room for more taxidermy now anyway. I'm booked to hunt lion this year with no real guarantee it will be importable. Don't know what will happen with importation or the virus, but I'm going anyway.

Good luck David.

My philosophy regarding trophy taxidermy has evolved over the years. When I first hunted Namibia in 2012, I knew I wanted a Zebra skin rug, a trophy Kudu, a Warthog and both a male and female Gemsbok. All the mounts would be Euro mounts, which are both cheaper and I think look cooler than full shoulder mounts. Thanks to an AR buddy M3Taco (now called Gusteaux) I learned how to bring back my trophies myself in 2013, as Excess Baggage. Rather than spending thousands of dollars on shipping and handling costs, I cleared my 2012 trophies myself for less than $200. After 5 trips to Namibia,we’ve run out of wall space on our condo. Instead of Euro mounts, I take lots of well staged trophy pictures and send the electronic JPEG’s to my local COSTCO. For a very reasonable fee, COSTCO enlarges the images and mounts them to a clear acrylic backing. The results are high quality momentoes for a relative pittance.

We love our taxidermy but we love hunting even more. The wife and I spent more time together in 2020 than we have in 26+ years together. We did a lot of soul searching and decided to downsize. We have no children and old military injuries are not kind on my busted up body. All the “stuff” we had is for what? So some distant relative can sell it off to buy iPhone 29 when we die? Sold the big house, a lot of “stuff” and bought a 2BR 2BA condo in a secure building. Now we can lock the door and leave. No worries. We went from 3500sf to 1100sf. Big change but the truth is we actually used a very small portion of the house and the rest was just full of “stuff” that never got used unless we had guests. In the condo, we just don’t have a lot of room now. We have our taxidermy in storage until we decide what we can bring in and what will be “sent down the road”. We definitely reorganized our priorities.

The point is that experiences have become more important to us. By downsizing we can afford to have more experiences. That is most important as we are not getting any younger. Having said all that, we will be hunting in Africa but taxidermy will not be important. Better photos so we can make a book, an occasional euro mount, perhaps horns or hides to make furniture or other decorations; that is what we will do.

My hopes is that we will be free to travel safely in 2021 and we can all enjoy Africa and its beauty.

Import bans eliminate the decision of bringing home trophies. Not bringing trophies home will substantially reduce the cost of a hunting trip conceivably making such trips affordable for more hunters. Import bans could possibly increase demand for Inernational hunting IMO.

Andrew,

very good thread. look what is happening with the polar bear hunting ... no more possible to export or import in many countries ...

What is happening with polar bear hunting sir? Is it still being regularly conducted?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
What is happening with polar bear hunting sir? Is it still being regularly conducted?

+1...would love to take one..

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I am at my house in Colorado, which was finished last month. It doesn't have a dedicated trophy room but the plan is to put a moose, leopard, and elk in the great room. I will put some trophies in my reloading room and perhaps my walk in vault, as well as my office.

But right now, I really don't miss taxidermy. I am looking out my office window at the snow covered Sangre de Cristo mountain. An hour ago a took a shot at my 715 yard gong from my shooting patio right out the door of my reloading room; last night I practiced offhand with a .22 from the same. There are tons of deer on my property, which border natl forest that has no public access.

I guess what I am saying is that when I am in Phoenix, taxidermy helps me to remember my hunts. But living in CO, off grid, where I can hunt right out of my back door, doesn't require taxidermy to enjoy the 1440 minutes in a day.

I also think the older you get, the more the experience matters. I hunt MN every year for deer; I have shot some nice ones, but that hunt is for the pot, and I enjoy it immensely.

I walked up on a sheep someone would have to pay a lot of money to kill and about slid off the side of a huge scree slope at about 13’500. On crestone.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kathi:
I think Andrew is correct in no one is going to pay $100,000 for a lion they cannot get home.



I can assure you, I would not Pay $100,OOO for a pack of lions even if I could bring all of them home.
My problem with not being able to bring any animal I hunt is, no animal that is legally hunted, is, In my opinion, is the property of anyone but the hunter, and as far as I'm concerned the government has no business telling me what to do with the animal, or any part of that animal.
Stand by Folks, this new administration is about to tell, a here to fore, free people to witness a goose stepping Nazi government just like Hitler ran.
....................................... ...
................................................................... MacD37

I have made many trips where I have taken nothing home and in Sweden/Europe I have only taken my first moose and some birds to the taxidermist.

Would I have been disappointed with leaving elephant, polar bear and leopards - probably yes. But not a deal breaker.

Instead of taking trophies back maybe invest in a better camera and/or a photo class a couple of times ?

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
My problem with not being able to bring any animal I hunt is, no animal that is legally hunted, is, In my opinion, is the property of anyone but the hunter, and as far as I'm concerned the government has no business telling me what to do with the animal, or any part of that animal.

+1

That is precisely the problem. We should hunt even more just to spite the bastards.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
My problem with not being able to bring any animal I hunt is, no animal that is legally hunted, is, In my opinion, is the property of anyone but the hunter, and as far as I'm concerned the government has no business telling me what to do with the animal, or any part of that animal.

+1

That is precisely the problem. We should hunt even more just to spite the bastards.

Boom!

I will try for those few I want,

From an economics perspective, will the D&P, trophy exporters/importers of PG animals then just raise rates due to lack of business?

I’m just curious. Will it cut out some ridiculous “extras,” or weed out the bad ones?

Not sure why y’all think ‘they’ would stop at an import ban?

If banning trophies doesn’t have the desired effect on hunting, expect international hunting to be made illegal for Americans.

I probably won't bring home many more trophies....but I REALLY have room for a pair of tusks.

If I die before I get them, I'm gonna feel like I missed out.

Well, this appears to be something president elect Biden is looking to propose for USA citizens.

If this goes in to play, it will put the damper on international hunting by US citizens.

All the hunters looking to travel to other countries to go after their hunting experiences.

This is more reaching than Africa as hunting is world wide. And this could put the hurt on small populations of game animals that are only preserved through hunting dollars.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Not sure why y’all think ‘they’ would stop at an import ban?

If banning trophies doesn’t have the desired effect on hunting, expect international hunting to be made illegal for Americans.

Because several that support the democrats are just "whistling past the grave yard"!

They don't want to shoot an elephant PR a lion.....so it doesn't affect them!

They don't care for AR type rifles......so it doesn't affect them!

They don't want to shoot a giraffe or a zebra...so it doesn't affect them.

Once the left gets what " doesn't affect "them", do these people think the left is gonna just stop?


This " what if" conversation is the wrong conversation. The conversation should be how "we" hunters, shooters, conservationists ban together to stop "them" from ending our lifestyle and traditions!

.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Not sure why y’all think ‘they’ would stop at an import ban?

If banning trophies doesn’t have the desired effect on hunting, expect international hunting to be made illegal for Americans.

Agreed! They don't care about trophies. Their goal is to end hunting period and will do whatever they can to accomplish that goal.

Agreed that the Dims would like to ban international hunting and then hunting in general. The problem is that they can't govern what a citizen does outside the US that is legal where it is done. That's why they have started to prosecute people for importing a trophy that was not taken perfectly legally wherever it was taken. Which raises some real Constitutional issues in my humble opinion because it involves a US Attorney deciding what is and is not legal under some foreign country's law. I think the US should mind it's own business and allow other countries to interpret their law as to what is legal and not legal.

Hypothetical, which is not so hypothetical because it actually happened. A senior government official asked a hunter to shoot an animal for meat under circumstances that did not exactly comply with that country's laws. The hunter did and then gave in to the very influential official's pressure to take the trophy home. He shouldn't have, but the USA prosecuted him. Cost a fortune in legal defense.

Here's a story I have never told before.

I was once asked to do just what you describe by the Chief Game Warden of the Selous Game Reserve. He drove into camp one day and wanted me to shoot him a young bull Cape buffalo for meat.

The guy was not cool. We had to sit in camp that night while he drank beer and bragged to us about how he could easily kill a lion with his Makarov. I told my PH there was no way I was going to do this, and he took the warden aside and refused him.

The next morning, the warden ordered all of the camp staff to pull up their tomato and other plants, which they cultivated for their cooking. He claimed it was "unauthorized agriculture" in a game reserve! Spiteful SOB.

Then he had the game scouts go out and shoot two buffalo cows for him with their FN FALs, butcher them and load the meat into his Toyota truck for the drive home.

Awful.

If there is a problem, or is going to be a problem, with African big game populations, it will be corrupt local officials and politicians that cause it, not foreign big game hunters.

It's the importation of the trophy that gives the US Attorney jurisdiction to prosecute. So you do have control of the situation. I was asked to shoot a meat buffalo by the head of the game department during an anti-poaching operation. Not an offer you could refuse. But, the bull I shot was good, I had another buffalo on license so all was good. I'm sure he'd have rather had a younger animal, but beggars can't be choosers.

I will shoot meat and even bait, but there was something about this guy - I think it was his sense of self-importance and above the law, high and mighty entitlement - that just rubbed me the wrong way.

Mike,

He does sound like a bad guy. Was he selling the meat?

My situation was totally different. Was a tense situation as the President had issued a shoot to kill order. We had a very large anti-poaching operation going on while I was hunting. It was a joint operation between the Army and the Game Department. We had about 50 troops and Game Scouts in camp. They needed meat Dinner every night was interesting. The table was surrounded by senior officers who all placed their AK-47's under the table while we ate.

The condition of the poachers they brought in would give a member of the ACLU nightmares for life. But then, they had just lost a senior game scout to poachers and weren't really in the mood for discussion.

The problem with a shoot to kill order is the poachers know it is in place and will shoot first. Also, as a tourist hunter, I don't want to get in a fire fight or subject myself to the criminal justice system of any country.

I know this is the African Hunting Forum, but I’m sure many of you remember the California Director of Game and Fish (or whatever the title may have been) that shot a mountain lion in Idaho, I believe. I don’t think he even tried to bring the animal home, but it got out there on social media and he was forced to resign.

I do believe there is an overpopulation of mountain lions in California as there is no legal hunting of them in that state.

Another confusing situation in California was the Santa Rosa Island deal:
https://www.nraila.org/article...flag-of-conservation

Lavaca, I quite agree; I have no intention of doing anything in a foreign country that could possibly require jail time.

The "shoot to kill" order is addressed only to the competent govt. authorities.

In the meantime and possibly due to these "draconian" measures as observed by some people, poaching has been dramatically reduced and criticism that Tanzanian authorities were not doing enough to protect its wildlife has dwindled significantly.

Regarding the issue of a senior TZ govt. official allegedly requesting a hunter to shoot meat rations: this practice is quite common and legal as the Chief Game Warden has the authority to do so but, however, these meat ration sorties are not a daily occurrence and most certainly have no impact on game populations.

From a humane and conservation-minded perspective, I would rather see the job done "in-house" by either the PH or client as it would assure selective shooting with a prescribed caliber and accuracy than what would be concluded by the person behind an under-achieving AK47 or FAL.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Not sure why y’all think ‘they’ would stop at an import ban?

If banning trophies doesn’t have the desired effect on hunting, expect international hunting to be made illegal for Americans.

Because several that support the democrats are just "whistling past the grave yard"!

They don't want to shoot an elephant PR a lion.....so it doesn't affect them!

They don't care for AR type rifles......so it doesn't affect them!

They don't want to shoot a giraffe or a zebra...so it doesn't affect them.

Once the left gets what " doesn't affect "them", do these people think the left is gonna just stop?


This " what if" conversation is the wrong conversation. The conversation should be how "we" hunters, shooters, conservationists ban together to stop "them" from ending our lifestyle and traditions!

.

JTEX:

You are currently in first place for post of the year!

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
The "shoot to kill" order is addressed only to the competent govt. authorities.

In the meantime and possibly due to these "draconian" measures as observed by some people, poaching has been dramatically reduced and criticism that Tanzanian authorities were not doing enough to protect its wildlife has dwindled significantly.

Regarding the issue of a senior TZ govt. official allegedly requesting a hunter to shoot meat rations: this practice is quite common and legal as the Chief Game Warden has the authority to do so but, however, these meat ration sorties are not a daily occurrence and most certainly have no impact on game populations.

From a humane and conservation-minded perspective, I would rather see the job done "in-house" by either the PH or client as it would assure selective shooting with a prescribed caliber and accuracy than what would be concluded by the person behind an under-achieving AK47 or FAL.

fulvio, to my way of thinking, there’s a big difference between shooting for camp meat and shooting for the personal and commercial use of an obnoxious and corrupt government official.

I have no doubt that it is people like this guy and his ilk who have been selling out to the Chinese commercial poaching syndicates, and who are responsible for the devastating loss of elephants in the Selous.

I want zero part of any of that.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
The problem with a shoot to kill order is the poachers know it is in place and will shoot first. Also, as a tourist hunter, I don't want to get in a fire fight or subject myself to the criminal justice system of any country.

The trouble with shoot to kill orders is that they’re only put in place long after things have totally gone to shit.

IMHO, regular anti-poaching patrols have always been the best medicine. Funding and corruption are and have been (and may always be) the obstacles.

In the Selous, ever since German support ended about 15 years ago, and the self-funding plan they introduced was abandoned by the Tanzanian government, there has been no real funding for anti-poaching activities.

That, plus a corrupt government at every level and unchecked Chinese criminal syndicates, have devastated the elephant population.

quote:

Regarding the issue of a senior TZ govt. official allegedly requesting a hunter to shoot meat rations: this practice is quite common and legal as the Chief Game Warden has the authority to do so but, however, these meat ration sorties are not a daily occurrence and most certainly have no impact on game populations.

Mike, As stated in the above, the game posts in the various sectors of the Selous, managed by the respective Sector Wardens have meat ration quotas for the staff whose numbers are not small as they have their families as well.

In your comment it was stated he had requested one young bull "for the pot" which was declined and thus prompted him to shoot 2 cows instead and in retaliation for what he perceived to have been an obnoxious response by the PH ordered his boys to uproot any and all commonly grown domestic vegetable plants (tomatoes, cucumbers, egg-plants, etc.).

Without a shadow of doubt this was a "tit-for-tat" gesture but nevertheless within the legal framework as the introduction of flowers, plants and animals inconsistent with the Selous ecosystem is strictly forbidden and, had he wanted to be a greater asshole, could have opened a charge sheet against the outfitter in that respect.

Agreed that regular anti-poaching patrols have been the best medicine but they also have their limitations as to how far they can go and the costs that are a burden to the outfitter to run these patrols which are not randomly sent out but established on a permanent basis during the season.

During the 6 month season and depending on the number and location of the concessions, the anti-poaching units would number accordingly and these units comprising up to 30 in number would be permanently camped at strategic points from where they would split into separate groups to conduct their patrols.

The season for hunting has now been returned to its former glory where accessibility to the hunting grounds was naturally regulated by weather conditions but which too opens the gates of hell (or paradise) for the poachers who travelling on foot know full well that they will be alone and undisturbed.

Agreed that when Rolf Baldus of GTZ was around the poaching activities in the Selous were kept on a leash and once he left it all went up shit creek.
The same could be said for the period when the Selous was run by the legendary Brian Nicholson.