I have NO experience with large bore rifles. I'm attempting to learn as much as possible, I'm considering a .375H&H or .416 Rigby.

I read much about the .416 Rigby's recoil.
Regarding the .416 Rigby, is the "severe recoil" that is often discussed what is shown in the video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZHCvdjk7u4

I pm'ed the guy in the vid. He stated he's using factory 400 gr, Hornady FMJ.

In the vid, the recoil does not appear to be that great.

Am I missing something??

I find the 416 recoil to be manageable, less so off shooting sticks than on a bench rest shooting the loads you stated. I got a 300 ultramag that will make that 416 feel like a pussy cat. We are taking a 375 H&H mag and 416 rigby across to Africa this summer. For info the 416 Rigby is a CZ 550 safari classic at around 13 lbs,,, the 300 ultra is a remington 700 bdl synthetic with stainless barrels at just over 7lbs.

Actually off the sticks you will feel "less"recoil than the bench unles you are shooting off a bench sled.... Try it off the sticks and see how it feels, that is a better test. May try it on a few feral pigs this weekend,,,

That didn't look like a 416 going off to me. Maybe it was, but recoil seemed fairly weak for full power loads.

A 13# .416 Rigby is too fat. I thought my 11# 458 Lott was a pig. Now I've got a 10# 500 Jeffery and it's about right. See how recoil addles your brain?

That video doesn't look like full power loads in a .416 Rigby to me. I find my CZ in .416 is quite punishing. It is right at my tolerance level. By comparison, the .375 is a real pussy cat. I know the math says differently, but I perceive the .416 to be about double a .375. If you aren't used to shooting .375's, than going straight to a .416 will be quite an expereince.

Rmember, it is important to have confidence in whatever you are shooting. It is hard to gain that confidence unless you shoot a gun a lot. Bullet placement is still key, afterall.

I love both my .416's, but the .375 is still much more pleasant to shoot on a regular basis.

Bill

I can shoot my CZ 375 H&H all day. My 416 Rem Mag M70 is a whole different story

To put things in perspective, the first three shots with the 416 slightly enlarges the hole, after that things really deteriorate because the shooter (me) starts to "worry" about the next shot

This vid looks a little light for a full power .416 Rigby.

I have the same rifle. When I first got it I noticed it was a bit brisk at the bench. Funny thing though, when there is game under the crosshairs I don't notice the recoil at all ... even when I jump shot a Cape Buffalo in Tanzania! That part just was not important.

If you've shot a .375 H&H the Rigby is not a terrific surprise.

The .458 Lott is perceptibly worse as is the .470 NE. (And I haven't had access to bigger chamberings.)

I also don't think that is a video of full power loads being shot. There is a little more muzzle blast normally and the recoil is a little more of punch then shown there. My CZ is in a McMillan stock and it comes pretty straight back, not much muzzle lift though.

You can always have it ported and add mercury recoil reducers to the butt stock. I've got a Rem 870 synthetic 12 ga with a Hastings rifled barrel. You try a Remington premium slug in that one and find out what recoil is. A .416 Rigby is much softer compared to that brain jogger. If you see Elephant in your future, I'd go with the .416 Rigby. Otherwise, the .375 clan is fine for DG.
LDK

LDK, Funny you should say that. We spend a lot of time discussing recoil from rifles that we are likely to shoot less than three or four rounds through in virtually all shooting situations, but no one ever discusses the recoil from a 7 lb 12 guage shooting 3" or 31/2" magnum loads at ducks and geese when we "hope" to be shooting many more shells during a shoot. If you look at the tables, the shotguns generate as much or more recoil than most of the big bores, yet I guess we endure it without complaint given that most shotgunning is done not on shooting benches and solid rests, but in shooting situations where we don't "feel" the recoil (that is until we get home, or have to shot a wounded goose on the water...)

A hunting rifle should not weigh more than 9.5 pounds scoped in a bolt rifle IMO..both my .375 and 416 weigh that. As to recoil, neither one bothers me, but you need to shoot both, as opposed to asking as everyones recoil tolerance is different..Since you have not shot many heavey recoiling rifles then I suspect a 9.3x62 or a 375 H&H would be the better choice...If you can't shoot it without flinching then your better off with a lighter caliber.

The one thing that has not been mentioned yet here is the velocity of the recoil.
A 12 gauge anything gives a hard shove, sometimes a real hard and painfulshove but a shove none the less.
It is when we start hotrodding these bigger caliber rifles that we really pay the price.
The velocity of the recoil makes a trememndous difference.
I was shooting some handloads, 270 grain at 2900fps in a model70 375 that would literally knock my eyes out of focus for a few seconds after the shot.
Freeky deal, and not fun at all.

quote:

If you can't shoot it without flinching then your better off with a lighter caliber.

What he said, times two!

From what I've seen, a .416 Rigby generally has about 50 ft-lbs of recoil. So either the guy in that video was made out of steel and stone, or he wasn't shooting a full powered .416 Rigby load! My general idea about that kind of recoil is that it would probably be similar to that of a stout 12 gauge shotgun load. Some people can shoot 'em all day, some can't.

I have a 375 and 416 Rigby - No rifle over 9.5 pounds and they work great ! Going for ele and buff in October with my Mauser 416 Rigby with open sights. Dont think about the recoil just squeeze the trigger.

nvhunter:

Before jumping into the purchase of a new rifle, I suggest you find someone in your neck of the woods who has a rifle in said caliber and give it a shot.

The last thing you need to do if buy one untested and find out it ain't for you.

Personally, recoil in bother calibers are tame IMHO, but I'm a big guy with a lot of experience in shooting big bores.

nvhunter, update your profile with your location. Historically AR guys are some of the best around and if someone is close to you with those rifles, will be happy to help you out.

Thanks for the input.

"EB" and "someoldguy" both made GREAT points regarding shotgun recoil and how one compares that to large bore rifles.

I've never fired a large bore rifle, however, I've fired my share of 10ga and 12ga shotguns that recoiled "firmly". I was having fun, so the recoil was never a big deal.

Recently, I fired a 500 Mossberg 12ga (the light "home security type" 20in barrel, syn stock) with 3 in magnums-000 buckshot. Yep!! It kicked, but,..again, I was having fun and, I didn't flinch on subsequent shots.

Thanks again for the comments,...

quote:

Recently, I fired a 500 Mossberg 12ga (the light "home security type" 20in barrel, syn stock) with 3 in magnums-000 buckshot. Yep!! It kicked, but,..again, I was having fun and, I didn't flinch on subsequent shots.

Thanks for the kind words.

With your shotgun experience IMO you're a leg up then.

If you concentrate on getting the bullet to the target or are just enjoying yourself, you (or I) will probably have no problems.

The thing is, .416 Rigby's are unfortunately too expensive for me to shoot much to know if I'd really enjoy them or not

577NitroExpress

Great idea, and thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by nvhunter:
577NitroExpress

Great idea, and thanks.

nvhunter:

If you are near the eastern part of Pennsylvania, I have a .375 H&H bolt gun, .416 Remington boltgun, .470 NE double and .577 NE double for you to try out.

And I'm very serious, please try one of the guns before you make the jump - and shoot off hand, standing - recoil is always "worse" off the bench.

quote:

And I'm very serious, please try one of the guns before you make the jump - and shoot off hand, standing - recoil is always "worse" off the bench.

What he said, ultimately.

In other words, as they say: "Shoot first and ask questions later."

quote:

Originally posted by bucko:
It is when we start hotrodding these bigger caliber rifles that we really pay the price.
The velocity of the recoil makes a trememndous difference.
I was shooting some handloads, 270 grain at 2900fps in a model70 375 that would literally knock my eyes out of focus for a few seconds after the shot.
Freeky deal, and not fun at all.

Was that in a .375 H&H? If it was then you're lucky all it did was knock your eyes out of focus.

Cheers,
Andy

Hey guys, new to the forum...

Id like to say i look forward to my stay here.

Im also the guy in the video, and assure you I was fireing full powerd loads. I was quite surprised myself to see what sounded and looked in the video to be very mild recoil. Ive been shooting bigbore rifles since I was very young, and never been affected much by recoil. However I see in the video how it looks like I wasnt shooting full powerd load.

Anyway, is there anyone in the Jacksonville Florida area?

Thanks
Ryan

My Ruger 416 Rig. kicks like a mule. My 375 H&H (Win M70) shots like a dream and boy is it a tack driver.
My 470 NE double is a lot more comfortable to shot then the 416. I've got a 7 pound 458 wm that is brutal but again not as bad as the 416.
To sum this up, the 375 and 470 are leaving in 3 weeks for Mozambique. This combo has gone 3 times to Africa and will make many more.

Judging by the video that looks like a Bavarian stocked CZ or Brno? I've got some thoughts and observations on that combination. My own .416 had a standard stock originally. The recoil was definitely there, but with factory Federal 410 grains loads it wasn't too bad at all. Weight was 10.25 pounds scoped. Handloads that actually got the 2350 fps also got my attention.I was good for 40 shots at a time, but that's it. Since I also have the same rifle in .375 H&H it is rather easy to come up with a subjective comparison. I'd say the recoil of the .416 is about double, and that rifle with the .375 is surpriseingly, boringly mild. My Remington .375 with straight stock and the same weight kicks more.
Recently I swapped the stock on the .416 for a bavarian style that was given to me. Besides being a full 1.6 pounds heavier the only difference is the stock design. Recoil is now comparable to the Remington .375. Stock design is a funny thing, the same stock that I thought provided a day and night recoil reduction was taken off and given away by another shooter that thought it kicked far too much in that configuration. Given that we are both happy, we must both be right.
I've been shooting 3" magnum shot loads since I was a kid, and the recoil in no way compares to a heavy rifle. It's too slow to be jarring.

quote:

Im also the guy in the video, and assure you I was fireing full powerd loads.

I stand corrected, Rhine Paul. And welcome to the forum!
So is it true that you're really made out of stone and steel?



Just kidding!

You controlled that Rigby really well. No offense with my comment.

quote:

Anyway, is there anyone in the Jacksonville Florida area?

I'm about 4-5 hours from Jax, but I'd like to go back some day. I think the Spanish were still occupying the place when I was last there.

quote:

Originally posted by someoldguy:
I stand corrected, Rhine Paul. And welcome to the forum!
So is it true that you're really made out of stone and steel?



Just kidding!

You controlled that Rigby really well. No offense with my comment.


I'm about 4-5 hours from Jax, but I'd like to go back some day. I think the Spanish were still occupying the place when I was last there.

No worries mate. I do tend to think of myself being made of stone and steel. But im still pretty young, so I think I can get away with it. And as for the Spanish... we pushed them back out to sea awhile ago.

You cannot throw a blanket across it and say the recoil is greater in a .416 vs a .375. It is not determined by the caliber/cartridge, but by several important factors.

#1 How heavy is the rifle?
#2 What style of stock does it have?
#3 What kind of loads are you shooting?
#4 Define "full-house" loads!

My buddy has a .375H&H M-70. It is a relatively light rifle due to a plastic stock; it weighs around 8 lbs. He was shooting near max loads and I find the recoil is much harsher with it, then with my 10lb ZKK-602 in .416RM. I load the .416 with 400gr RN Hornadys to ~2350 fps.

He also has a Ruger M-77 Safari Magnum in .416 Rigby. We fired that thing one day with truly "full-house" loads and that thing had some stout recoil. Good thing Ruger hangs an 8 lb steel pipe off the front of it... it has some merit that enormous barrel. I enjoyed it but the gun owner was less thrilled about it. He has never done that since. Also FWIW, I cannot get him to fire my .458 Lott even once. I think that one session wrecked him as far as "full-house" loading the Rigby.

So recoil can mess a guy up if you get stupid with how high you push the velocity.

Anyway, the main point I would make is that if you use a quality bullet at moderate velocities, any of the .375 to .416 class rifles are deadly killers. Extreme velocity will not improve the terminal performance.
You do not require max' loads.

With that .416RM I killed a 50" bull moose with 2 shots at 250 yards in Oct. 2006, with those 400gr RN Hornady IL's, and that was with a mere 2350fps MV.
Increasing the velocity to 2400 or 2450 would have made no difference to the moose, but the recoil would definitely jumped up.

You can talk about weight of the rifle, stock design, stock fit, shooting positions, lada, lada. The bottom line is that the 416 Rigby in whatever configuration burns a lot of powder thus making it's recoil feel like a 458. IMO a 458WM or a 458 Lott downloaded to 2100-2150fps has about the same felt recoil, so why not go up in caliber and get the extra benefits of a 45 caliber? If you want to stick with what I think is the best all-around caliber, that being the 416, then buy a rifle in 416 Rem mag, or better yet wait another 6 months and buy a 416 Ruger, both having less recoil than 416 Rigby.

My CZ in .416 is heavy enough that it has never bruised my shoulder or made it sore, even with my hot loads. But it will give me a headach if I shoot more than 12 or 15 rounds in a setting. Also if shot from a standing position with your elbow supported by a sling it will bruise your elbow.

My 9.3 RUM Wildcat at 7.5lbs kicks like a pissed off mule! My 416rem at 8.0lbs is mild in comparison. Both are built on a Rem 700 syn platform. I too agree that it is more than just physics. It includes stock design as well as past experience. I anticipate the 9.3 is going to hit harder and it always does. You can't beat a good 375 H&H but I sure like my 416 better. The 9.3 was a good idea gone bad.... There you go recoil reduces IQ.

9.3 RUM 250grn at 3100fps
416 Rem 350grn at 2700fps

Brad

From that video, I think Hornady left out about half the powder.

Even in a 9.5 lb. CZ a Rigby is going to kick more than in the video, regardless of sticks and stones and steel and whatever.

quote:

Originally posted by JBoutfishn:
I can shoot my CZ 375 H&H all day. My 416 Rem Mag M70 is a whole different story

To put things in perspective, the first three shots with the 416 slightly enlarges the hole, after that things really deteriorate because the shooter (me) starts to "worry" about the next shot

..

The 416s don,t recoil that much , and they hit an animal harder than the 375 , The point from the above post is , how often do you need more than 3 shots at a game animal when shooting a .416 ... In my limited experience , almost never ...... I shoot my 416 Rem mag as well as I shoot my 9.3x64 B . . If all I could have was one caliber it would be the 416 because it will do most things well ,, IMO better than the 375 ...