I've spent been dreaming about a hunting trip to Africa for quite some time. I've spent much more time than I should of the past several weeks perusing the information available on this forum and others.

I have a few questions concerning a potential safari.

First let me state that I don't want to hunt in a high fence facility. My primary species that I'm interested are in order oryx, zebra (w/o shadow stripes), warthog and kudu. I'd rather take a few good animals instead of a lot of so-so ones (I only have so much room for mounts). I would likely being going with 1 or 2 other hunters. A 2x1 or even 3x1 hunt would be considered; however, we have always hunted 1x1 on our other US/Canadian hunts.

With this information, where am I going to get the best hunt for the money. I'm thinking Namibia and then RSA. Is this right? Are there other places I should consider?

Thanks.

Finally, with this list of criteria what outfitters/PH would you recommend?

No high fence area of Namibia for the animals you want. Do the 1X1 as you will have more time hunting

quote:

Originally posted by Buckshotaz:
No high fence area of Namibia for the animals you want. Do the 1X1 as you will have more time hunting

Does this mean there are no areas in Namibia without high fence?

If you don't want to hunt in a high fence facility, then you don't want to hunt in South Africa. Of course, when the high fence is around 40,000 acres, you could die of thirst trying to walk from one side to the other and the animals can get away so it's acceptable for me.

I think Namibia is currently one of the best destinations. I'm going to South Africa this year and hopefully to Namibia in a couple of years once I've earned enough points for my wife to give me another pass.

And yes, there are plenty of high fence hunting operations, a.k.a, game farms, in Namibia.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
If you don't want to hunt in a high fence facility, then you don't want to hunt in South Africa. Of course, when the high fence is around 40,000 acres, you could die of thirst trying to walk from one side to the other and the animals can get away so it's acceptable for me.

I know almost nothing about these game ranches, so maybe my original statement about wanting to avoid them was premature.

Is it common for single enclosures to be this large? For most of these high fence regions, is the game born in the same "field" or is it bred somewhere and then imported?

dla69,

some high fence areas are larger than some counties, some smaller than 10-minute walk. Do not lump them all together.

Re your question about born and bred rather than brought in animals-- "drop and shop" is a dirty little secret among some ranches and is more prevalent in my experience in ranches/ph's offering packages and prices that are simply too good to be true. Another difference is the same difference as a basket-racked 8-point versus a true trophy 8. Both are adults, both mature, just one is better than other. You would know the diff on whitetails being from PA, but would you know the diff when your ph says shoot and you are looking at a 45-inch kudu versus a 52-inch kudu?

RSA has some amazing ranches to hunt, as does Namibia-- having been to both i will tell you that oryx are generally better in namib if you hunt the desert, kudu in RSA, zebra without shadow stripes in namib for mtn zebra, warthogs get big where you find them.

Last advice, don't go to africa, put it out of your mind. Stick to whitetails with the occassional foray into elk and maybe mule deer or pronghorn. Stay the hell away, or you risk becoming one of us-- a person, a poor soul who is hopelessly addicted and no variety of pills will cure. You will dispose of your income, disposable or not, in africa, and the only people sympathetic to your plight will be those of us with that faraway stare in our eyes.

Namibia. I am going in May and plan on posting a trip report with photos. Be looking for it in late May or early June.

I am also going to Namibia in May and wanted to hunt free range animals. I'm hunting with Vaughan Fulton for Zebra, Kudu, Springbok and Oryx.

My wife and I are going May 14-26 and are hunting with Janneman Brand or Kalahari Safari. We've got 14 species on our list!

Dont worry about the fences just use the right outfitter

If you are dead set on the Zebra with out shadow strips(Mt.Zebra) then Namibia is the place to go over S.A..

1x1 is the only way to go.

New Guy:

I'm leaving March 8 for Namibia with my 11 year old son ...let's see...that's 15 days from now. I'll have some pics and a report to post at the end of March.

I'll be hunting with friends who have 27,000 acres plus hunting access to another quarter-million more acres in an adjoining conservancy. All the animals that you'd like to hunt are available where I'll be hunting and there are no high fences. There are fences, 3 or 4 single strands stretched along some access roads to keep cattle from wandering from one 5,000 acre plot to the other, but it does not keep any of the wild and naturally occuring game from free roaming in and out of the area.

All the animals that I hunt are free-roaming native to the area and have not been "farm raised" or re-introduced by the land-owners.

Communicating with PHs and hunters who have been there, or who have aspirations of being there, is part of the enjoyment of the hunt. You'll learn a lot from the AR forum members. Also, you'll get a lot of offers and "great deals" but, ultimately, you'll have to sort through all that to decide which hunt is for you.

Best of luck,
Namibiahunter
Etemba Hunt & Safaris

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nkonka:
dla69,
Re your question about born and bred rather than brought in animals-- "drop and shop" is a dirty little secret among some ranches and is more prevalent in my experience in ranches/ph's offering packages and prices that are simply too good to be true. QUOTE]

Sir, I have heard a statement like this before, and have to disagree respectfully. "Bought" animals on Game Auctions are very expensive, and the seller will find it very difficult to sell them "to good to be true" prices.

It is the norm for someone that have a lot of "natural bred" animals, to offer the special deals......

In any case, the new comer will realise one day maybe, that the "fenced" areas in Namibia and South Africa offer some of the best fair chase hunting in the world, if they are big enough.

This topic have been beaten to pieces, and I just know that it is impossible to convince the uninformed, if they have not experienced it themselves.

Karl Stumpfe from Ndumo Safaris are our friend and partner in Namibia. He offers very good PG hunts on some of his concessions, they are huge, and unfenced. We book these hunts for him in his absence, and you are welcome to e-mail me for more information at info@infinito-safaris.com and we will book you a hunt in a truly unfenced area.

Enjoy your hunt, where ever you go, and we look forward to you report.

www.infinito-safaris.com

You might want to consider hunting around Ghanzi, Botswana. While the game farms there have fences (it’s required by law in order to get “game farm†status which allows for the owner to manage his own game) as posted above the farms are huge and it’s all fair chase. From my experiences, Botswana has a much more “wild†feel then either Namibia or SA. Let me say this, there are no MacDonald’s in Botswana, we used to drive 12 hours to SA just to get a Big Mac. Of course a hunt in SA and Namibia would still be great experience. One Ghanzi farm I really like is over 100,000, (30,000 game fenced and 70,000 with low cattle fence) and 40 miles off the paved road. If you crossed their southern fence, it’s hundreds of miles across the Central Kalahari Game Reserve to another fence or person. Lions wander through all the time.

[URL=http://www.african-excursions.com/indexhunt.htm ]African Excursions[/URL]

375 Fanatic has it right - a good outfitter is the key.

The smallest ranch we hunted was 36,000 acres when I was there and another was 45,000 acres and took 45 minutes of driving from the main gate to the ranch house. The other was 100,000 Acre Plus.

If the PH has access to the right lands, you will have an awesome experience.

I was in the same boat as you when I was looking at going hunting in Africa for the first time. Here's a link to my report.

Namibia Hunting Report

sorry, screwed up the weblink. I'll try again

[URL=www.african-excursions.com/indexhunt.htm ]African Excursions[/URL]

Anybody know how URL link works? Thanks

New Guy,
You don't know it yet, but you are screwed. Africa is worse than crack on both your bank account and your productivity.
I would call a good booking agent if I were you. I hear that Wendell Reich is as good as any.
Have Fun.

dla69
There is some good info above. One thing to remember about some, I repeat SOME of the game ranches in mainly South Africa is that the act of "put and take" is possibly practiced. This means that even though you might be hunting 40,000 acres animals are bought from auctions and released into the 40,000 acres to allow more hunts to be sold. This is not so prevelant in Namibia where there are laws to keep this from happening. Is this wrong......well if it is ok with you and you know that the ranch is sometimes "stocked" then go for it, its your hunt. If the thought of hunting animals that were not bred, born and lived in the wild their entire lives bothers you I feel that without extremely through research, (I am probably going to get hammered here, but hey its my oppinion) I would look somewhere other than South Africa. Let me say that I know that there are genuinely great places to hunt in South Africa where the game is indegenious and wild, but there is also a lot of places that are not, more so than other African countries. Myself, I am going to upset some people off here but I think "put and take" is unethical and takes away so many of the aspects of a hunt that excite me My 2 cts.
Jason

dla69,

I was in your same position at one time, to add to it I had talked my Father and Wife into going along so the pressure for it to be The Grand Adventure was high.

I ended up making one simple choice which I've never regretted. I went with Classic Safaris and Vaughan Fulton. Not only did we get all of the animals we were looking for but they were superb trophies. Couple that with the fact that we had the time of our lives and I was golden!

My advice is to select a few operators in Namibia. Certainly I would recommend Classic Safaris. With the fact that you can work with Wendell Reich here in the US it makes it that much easier.

Since my trip I've recommended the same deal to close friends of mine. Now, when you recommend something to a close friend you are taking a huge risk if something goes wrong. They had the time of their lives and can't wait to get back again.

I'd do it tomorrow too. Sign up, fly over, hunt in wide open country, hunt well, get the animals I'm looking for and add to that getting the EXPERIENCE I'm dreaming of.

Nuff said.......

I've only one Namibian PG experience to offer. My PH also happened to be the landowner. In the area just south of Ethosa Park, he had a dozen diesel-powered bore holes pumping water into tanks for the game animals. 900 miles to the south, the ground water was much shallower, so wind driven pumps were used. He said, and I have no reason to doubt him, that his land had more game than most others because of the water wells.

So, in an arid area like Namibia, asking about the availability of water would be a prudent question to ask prior to booking a hunt.

I can hunt you on a no high fence area in either Namibia or So. Africa...Don't think for a moment that So. Africa is all high fenced, its not.

I have several places in So. AFrica that are 200,000 acres plus with only a 3 strand barb wire fence on them..I have several places in Namibia that are as large or larger.

You have more species of game in So. Africa than you do in Namibia, but either country is good for what you want if you hunt in the right place..

Since Gemsbok and Kudu are no. 1 on your list, I suspect the odds for a real trophy are slightly in favor of Namibia for Gemsbok, and So. Africa might be better for a big Kudu,at least on my concessions, but then you never know about such things, we have shot some nice trophies of each in both places.....

dla69,

We are working with Arub Safaris in Namibia. The ranch is unfenced but has availabe all the indigenous Namibian plains game species and offers very comfortable accommodations. Below is the full price list. If it looks interesting please feel free to contact me anytime with questions. One of the packages may be the most economical way to get the animals you need.

Mark

5 Animals, 7 Days, all included:
Kudu
Oryx
Springbuck
Blue Wildebeest OR Red Hartebeest
Baboon

US$ 5,050 1x1

5 Animals, 8 Days, all included:
Mountain zebra
Kudu
Oryx
Warthog OR Steenbuck
Blue Wildebeest

US$ 6,250 1x1

Additional animals as per price list.
Animals not taken in package, are not refundable.
All wounded animals to be paid in full.



PRICE LIST 2008 – US $

DAILY RATE
US $

Hunter 1 x 1
350

Hunter 2 x 1
300

Observer/Non-hunter
125

Children under 10 years
Free

Photographic Safaris & Tours
On request

TROPHY
US $
TROPHY
US $

Kudu
950
Impala
600

Oryx
650
Red Hartebeest
600

Warthog
350
Ostrich
450

Hartmann Zebra
950
Caracal
450

Burchell Zebra
800
Baboon
75

Blue Wildebeest
1000
Jackal
75

Black Wildebeest
1150
Giraffe
2000

Eland
1900
Leopard
3400

Waterbuck
2500
Cheetah
3000

Common Blesbuck
550
Common Duiker
300

Springbuck
450
Steenbuck
300

Klipspringer
850




Black-faced Impala, Roan, Damara Dik-Dik, Nyala, Tsessebe & Sable on request.
NB!: All wounded animals to be paid in full.

Included:
Not included:

Accommodation
Trophy fees for shot + wounded animals

Meals & drinks
Taxidermy work

4x4 Hunting vehicles
Shipping of trophies

PH & trackers
Fax & telephone calls

Skinning of trophies
Rent of fire-arms (US$ 45 per day)

Hunting license and permits
Ammunition

Daily laundry
15% Government tax on daily rate

Airport collection & return
Gratuities/Tips

quote:

Originally posted by MSsafari:
New Guy,
You don't know it yet, but you are screwed. Africa is worse than crack on both your bank account and your productivity.

Trust me, I already know happens when expensive hobbies (motorcycle track days) meet limited means.

quote:

Originally posted by silwane:
If the thought of hunting animals that were not bred, born and lived in the wild their entire lives bothers you I feel that without extremely through research, (I am probably going to get hammered here, but hey its my oppinion) I would look somewhere other than South Africa. Let me say that I know that there are genuinely great places to hunt in South Africa where the game is indegenious and wild, but there is also a lot of places that are not, more so than other African countries. Myself, I am going to upset some people off here but I think "put and take" is unethical and takes away so many of the aspects of a hunt that excite me My 2 cts.
Jason

Jason,

You've done an excellent job of describing the different types of high fence hunts. I don't want to hunt in a "put and take" environment.

quote:

Included:
Not included:

Accommodation
Trophy fees for shot + wounded animals

Meals & drinks
Taxidermy work

4x4 Hunting vehicles
Shipping of trophies

PH & trackers
Fax & telephone calls

Skinning of trophies
Rent of fire-arms (US$ 45 per day)

Hunting license and permits
Ammunition

Daily laundry
15% Government tax on daily rate

Airport collection & return
Gratuities/Tips

I'm confused by this list.

Sorry! The copy and paste from our website took on a life of its own. The top item in each group of 2 is the included. The bottom is the not included.

Included: What is provided for the quoted price you pay.
Not included: What is not included with the price (Airfare, tips, taxidermy, souvenirs etc)

Accommodation: where you will stay: tents, lodge, etc.
Trophy fees for shot + wounded animals: The cost of each animal you harvest (kill) or wound and lose. Your PH and Tracker(s) will make every attempt to find your game....exhaustively.

Meals & drinks: usually included. Local alcohol in moderation.
Taxidermy work: not included. That's your choice.
4x4 Hunting vehicles: Usually Toyota Land Cruisers.
Shipping of trophies: not included
PH & trackers: included
Fax & telephone calls: not included but usually available.

Skinning of trophies: included
Rent of fire-arms (US$ 45 per day)If you don't bring your own.

Hunting license and permits: standard included. CITES, Vet, local export: not included (If needed, they will be provided at minimal cost)
Ammunition: Best bring your own.

Daily laundry:Included

15% Government tax on daily rate: varies from country to country. RSA is 14%

Airport collection & return; Usually included in RSA and Namibia, but clarify before you leave home.
Gratuities/Tips: at your discretion.
Check your Private Messages and I'll send more details.
Good hunting,
David

quote:

Originally posted by nkonka:
dla69,

some high fence areas are larger than some counties, some smaller than 10-minute walk. Do not lump them all together.

Re your question about born and bred rather than brought in animals-- "drop and shop" is a dirty little secret among some ranches and is more prevalent in my experience in ranches/ph's offering packages and prices that are simply too good to be true. Another difference is the same difference as a basket-racked 8-point versus a true trophy 8. Both are adults, both mature, just one is better than other. You would know the diff on whitetails being from PA, but would you know the diff when your ph says shoot and you are looking at a 45-inch kudu versus a 52-inch kudu?

RSA has some amazing ranches to hunt, as does Namibia-- having been to both i will tell you that oryx are generally better in namib if you hunt the desert, kudu in RSA, zebra without shadow stripes in namib for mtn zebra, warthogs get big where you find them.

Last advice, don't go to africa, put it out of your mind. Stick to whitetails with the occassional foray into elk and maybe mule deer or pronghorn. Stay the hell away, or you risk becoming one of us-- a person, a poor soul who is hopelessly addicted and no variety of pills will cure. You will dispose of your income, disposable or not, in africa, and the only people sympathetic to your plight will be those of us with that faraway stare in our eyes.

I was only gonna go once. I'm living on peanuts but I'm going back for the third trip next year.

Once you go for plains game, you'll suddenly get this irrepressable itch to hunt Cape buff. Then only God knows what will happen. You'll start buying burgers instead of steak and lots of reloading components to practice for your next hunt. You'll haunt this and other forums, gleaning every morsel of good information on hunting techniques, rifles and calibers, proper equipment, how much to tip your PH...all that stuff. It's a dangerous thing to start doing. It will change your life for the better, no doubt.

But do not expect empathy from the general public. Expect envy from your friends who're still stuck hunting whitetail, though.

Once you go for plains game, you'll suddenly get this irrepressable itch to hunt Cape buff. Then only God knows what will happen. You'll start buying burgers instead of steak and lots of reloading components to practice for your next hunt. You'll haunt this and other forums, gleaning every morsel of good information on hunting techniques, rifles and calibers, proper equipment, how much to tip your PH...all that stuff. It's a dangerous thing to start doing. It will change your life for the better, no doubt.

But do not expect empathy from the general public. Expect envy from your friends who're still stuck hunting whitetail, though.[/Q]UOTE



Wow. That one hit home.

Thanks for all of the information. I have been given a considerable amount of information to digest, especially considering ranch hunts and free range.

I'll still be listening if anyone else has more information.

quote:

Once you go for plains game, you'll suddenly get this irrepressible itch to hunt Cape buff. Then only God knows what will happen. You'll start buying burgers instead of steak and lots of reloading components to practice for your next hunt. You'll haunt this and other forums, gleaning every morsel of good information on hunting techniques, rifles and calibers, proper equipment, how much to tip your PH...all that stuff.

I won't make my first trip until June but I'm already at this point!

I am going to Namibia in September
to hunt free range animals. A Cape Buffalo, Mountain Zebra, Kudu, Springbok and Oryx are on my list. The country looks incredible and wide open.

Larry

Well after dreaming for the past 6 months, it's time to book my hunt. If anyone has other suggestions, I'm all ears.

We hunt Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Namibia, South Africa and Botswana. Most anything you want to try. Any questions, I'll be glad to answer.
Good hunting,
David

quote:

If the thought of hunting animals that were not bred, born and lived in the wild their entire lives bothers you

DLA 69
Just so you dont get the wrong impression as Silwane has.
Game ranching is much the same as any form of progressive animal improvement in that you would want to improve the genetic stock.
At a game auction the animals for sale are not hand reared or for that matter habituated to man at all.
Having done game capture for auctions I can tell you how the process is handled. The animlas are rounded up using a helicopter the day before the auction, they are forced into a boma where they are subjected to nothing other than the white screen which keeps their stress levels down. They are viewed and bought on site, trucked to the new location and released as soon as possible. The biggest factor that is in play here is stress as you are generally facing as high as 5% loss due to stress, these are wild animals and everything in their minds tells them that they are fighting for survival.

With this in mind please understand that if anything these animals are more weary of people than those you will find on the open plains where they have never been chased around by a buzzing helicopter, herded into enclosures and then transported in a noisy truck. Most often a drug called stresnil is employed to avoid mortality.

The high horse purists who sit here with their noses in the air shouting their mouths off about the tame animals actually dont know their @#$%^ from their elbow and choose to make comment on what they know nothing about. If you want the facts then speak to the ranchers and ask them what their policy is.
Dont confuse game ranching with canned Lion hunting. There is no comparison.
If you want the best value for money hunting available on ranches you could not walk across if you tried, then come to South Africa and enjoy your hunting. Forget the bull, just go and hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Vlam:
DLA 69
Just so you dont get the wrong impression as Silwane has.
Game ranching is much the same as any form of progressive animal improvement in that you would want to improve the genetic stock.

I understand the role that game ranches has on population levels and maybe on genetic stock. I'm sure such hunts are right for many people at many points. For, me at the present time, I'm looking for a different experience.

Thats great.
I just see too many guys who ask for good advice getting a load of misinformed opinion forced down their throats. The culprits are the same every time.
I wish you the best of luck with your hunt.
Ian

I just finished my first African hunt in Namibia. Like you, I did not want a high fence and I wanted the same animals you are interested in. After a lot of research, I chose Sebra Hunting Adventures (www.sebrahunt.com) by the town of Kamanjab in northern Namibia. I took my 14 year old son and we had a fantastic experience, saw a lot of wildlife and took animals of every species we had any interest in. The PH, Jan Du Plessis, did a wonderful job, the land had no high fences, good game populations and the price was very reasonable. My only suggestion would be to do 1x1 hunting. I believe it is well worth the few extra dollars. You can also find a lot of Namibia outfits by looking on the website for the Namibian Professional Hunters Association. Ask the operator/PH about the high fences because no one advertises a high fence on their website (wonder why?), though many without them do mention the fact.