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Mrs Blacktailer is going for a Zebra in Sept with her 308 Win. I'm thinking of loading Barnes Triple-Shocks in 165gr. Do you think this adequate or should I try 180? Keep in mind we are trying to keep recoil as low as possible in a 7lb rifle. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | ||
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Fine choice either weight. If she can't tell the difference in the recoil, I'd go with the 180 TSX. | |||
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my vote is for the 180 tsx | |||
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With her 308 my wife killed an impala, zebra and a wildebeest with Federal factory 165 gr Trophy Bonded Bearclaws. She killed 2 kudu and brained a giraffe with Federal factory 180 gr Barnes MRX. I killed a bushbuck with the MRX and a heyena and honey badger with the Trophy Bonded. Both bullets worked great. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I'd vote for the 180gr, zebra are tough and have thick skins and if not shot perfectly broadside you could end up with some difficulties. Even with lower velocities it will have more energy than the 165gr if you want to reduce recoil. Frederik Cocquyt I always try to use enough gun but then sometimes a brainshot works just as good. | |||
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Personally...If I were going after Zebra w/ a .308...I'd choose a good quality 180. In addition, I would understand that I would need to be patient, and wait for the best possible shot. Shooting Zebra with a .308 isn't going to be a problem if she can shoot it well. | |||
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both my zebras were shot with a-frame 180g. both were shot about the same range 100yds+, and both existed. | |||
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My vote goes to the one that passes through the top of the heart!  Provided your wife can put the bullet properly into the killing zone, either will do just fine. Enjoy the hunt! Remind her that zebra can be very difficult to hunt! Andew McLaren | |||
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Andrew is absolutely correct... Remember, forgivness is easier to get than permission. | |||
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My experience with 30 cal weapons starting with the 308Win is most have a twist of 11". In general a 30 cal with a twist of 11" will provide you with the best accuracy the rifle is capable of with traditionally constructed 180gr bullets. In other words copper jacketed lead type. (including A-frames and Partitions) Mono metal bullets (popular and safe choice) and polymer tipped (not recomended for africa) of the same weight are often longer bullets. The length of the bullets definately is a factor in the effectiveness of twist. This means the 165gr bullets of these type will often shoot as good as the 180gr pills. Sometimes these bullets in 180gr flavor do well and sometimes they frankly stink. It's a rifle dependant thing. So some time at the range discovering this is not a bad idea. My $.02. If you plan on shooting 165gr bullets stick with a monometal design. If you decide on 180gr bullets it's quite possible the jacketed lead type will shoot the best. In my experience, the 180's in general have a slight advantage on quartering shots. IMO, both will get the job done. | |||
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Try using a lighter weight bullet. Because the X-Bullet retains nearly 100 percent of its original weight and penetrates so well, many shooters do select a lighter-weight X-Bullet over a heavier conventional bullet. The lighter X-Bullet delivers higher velocites and a flatter trajectory, and outperforms heavier bullets of conventional design. The 165 TSX should work well. | |||
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I love a .308 and I definately think you are on the right track with the Barnes 3X. They will open fine with .308 speed at reasonable range and have plenty of side shot penetration. To be safe avoid straight on or deep quartering shots. Unlike most lead core bullets barnes bullets expand more smoothly and the pedals spin and cut their way thru creating considerable hemorage. So don't expect a large animal like a zebra to be bowled over on impact. W/bullets heavier is nearly always more effecient but acuracy is the trump card. You might try shooting both and see how your zero to 150 yard impact is effected. If its marginal shoot the trade out to the heavier only for the zebra and don't make a big deal out of it. You are only talking about an additional ft/lb or two. If it's significant in either point of impact or felt recoil I'd feel fine shooting the lighter load. Story: I shot Burchel stalion at 150 yards with a 338 win mag. I aimed dead center of his chest, He had awhite mark in the black v that looked like the d ring on a saddle chest strap. The 200 grain bullet was found bulging out of the skin between the cheeks n the other end. He ran 250 yards before piling up in spite of having the top of his heart cut off. I have a zebra rug with no bulet hole! The skinning line cut the hole in half.  Sure theres a lot of difference between a 338 win mag 200 grn. and a .308 win 165 grn. But the extra 40"s of paunch and pelvic bone was of little value! My 308 win. put a 165 gr. x bullet thru a donkey at 648 yards. The guide called it high because the dust flew up behind it! He staggered and dropped after 2 steps! Good hunting! PS: At 648 yards with a .308 win aim 2 donkeys high! | |||
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Madabula: Very tastefully done corner sir! Love the chair. Cna you provide details? thanks, jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Yes, I too noticed the chair and I have 16 feet of croc to make one with... TSX all the way...Don't even look back... Mike | |||
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I think a .308 is pretty light for a zebra, if you are set on this caliber then go with as heavy a bullet you can pass through it accurately as possible. Practice a lot and practice long shots as well. With a lighter caliber, accuracy is going to be key. This is hard to overcome in a somewhat stressful situation of African bush and herding animals. If you want to lower recoil have a Decelerator put on the rifle and have your wife practice shooting off sticks and practice dry firing to avoid the flinch habit. Speaking from experience I love my .375 H&H and as a female, if the rifle fits right recoil is not a problem. I have shot a few different makes of such a caliber and tried several different loads and really like the versatility of the caliber. If she is spooked by a .375H&H try her on a .30-06 with 180 grain bullets for zebra. Hope she gets her pajama donkey! They are a great trophy and a lot of fun to hunt. ~Ann   | |||
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I'll have to disagree with Ann on this one. A 308 is more than enough for a Zebra, as long as you use the TSX bullet. My bet is that it will exit on a broadside shot, and will still penetrate enough on a facing shot. Also a 30-06 is so close to the 308 that the extra velosity won't even matter. | |||
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I used 165gr or 168gr TSX on Eland through my 308win, and picked up the bullet on the far shoulder. After seeing that I have no doubt that you will get an Exit on Zebra with the same round, (and mine were not even loaded particularly hot) Given the choice I would go upto the 180gr next time just because you can. On the other hand I didn't get a chance at my Zebra, and if one walked infront of me with the 165's I would still have been happy to shoot it. One think I realised on that trip was that you don't want to be squeezing the trigger while wandering if you might be undergunned. if the 180's eliminate doubt in the shooters mind they would be preferable for this reason alone. Rgds, FB | |||
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The .308 Win is a great caliber. One PH I know carries one. I'm in the 180 camp. Any 180 gr premium bullet will do. Excellent choices are Barnes MRX, Barnes TSX, GS Custom, Hornady Interbond, Northfork, Nosler Partition, Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and Swift A-Frame. With seven months ahead of you see which shoots best in her rifle. Have a great hunt. ___________________________________________________________________________________________ | |||
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Blacktailer, When using copper monometal bullets the weight is unimportant, momentum and energy are. The animal does not care what the weight of the bullet is. It cares only about how much momentum and energy is applied to it. What you should do is look at what the different weights will do in terms of recoil, trajectory, wind drift and time of flight. Choose the one that will give you the best chance of placing the bullet right and still deliver adequate momentum and energy. You have an eland on your signature. When we did the final field trials of our 308 130gr HV bullet, we had seven consecutive one shot kills on eland. Rifle was a sporterized military Mauser and we ran the 130gr bullet at 3200fps. It was a pleasure to shoot and we recovered no bullets. Shots were: One head shot, one neck shot and five chest cavity shots from a variety of angles including a quarter going away. No surprises, no failures, just rock solid performance. Proof of the pudding.... | |||
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I shot a large zebra stallion in Namibia at about 135 yds quartering towards me with a 168 TSX out of a 30-06. Hit him square on the shoulder and found the bullet 4 or 5 ribs back on the opposite side under the skin. Bullet weighs exactly 168 grains still and is mushroomed perfectly. I hit him once more as he bucked around for about 30 yds and went down. Second shot was a pass through. Can't go wrong with the Barnes TSX! | |||
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I sent you both private messages; re above; jorge; I had a local guy here do it for me. I had the hide tanned and had an old wing back chair that had a good frame and spring structure so I had him build it up from there. Mike | |||
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Blacktailer, I hunted Namibia w/ a .308 loaded with Federal Premium 180 NP's and they worked great on 10 animals from Steenbuck to Hartmans Zebra. Shot the Zebra at 180 yds slightly quartering away. Complete penetration and the Zebra stumbled about 20 yds and dropped. Also shot Kudu and Oryx with similar results. That being said if you choose to stay with Barnes the 165/168 should match any other 180 and the lighter weight will keep the speed up which seems to be a factor in X bullet performance. My wife also shoots a .308 (5'2", 110#), and has no problem since her rifle is cut to length and Decel. recoil pad installed. I'd load up some light loads (or purchase) and make sure she gets lots of practice since her ability to shoot accurately/quickly, will be more important than which premium bullet you choose (something I'm sure you already know!) Hope you guys have fun! elkjaeger | |||
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Thanks for the input guys. The zebra is certainly a worthy trophy with their excellent hearing, sight and sense of smell along with their habit of hanging out with herds of other animals and spooking at the first alarm makes them great fun to hunt. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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I'd go with the 180 gr. Barnes MRX. I just shot a bison this past weekend with my .300 WSM using 180 gr. MRX ammo. You can check out my report here: https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8321043/m/200109026 _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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Russ, Hve her practice with the lighter bullets but sight in with 18O TSXs. She is not going to feel recoil in the field. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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