I just spoke to SCI. If for whatever reason you cannot make it to D.C. for the rally you can make a cash donation to SCI specifically to aid the litigation against USFW on the ivory ban issue.

Call 202-543-8733 (same # you use for signing up for the rally) and say you'd like to contribute to the ligation against USFW on the ivory import issue. They'll take your CC info and earmark your contribution for the litigation. You may also contribute by check. Call the SCI # for instructions.

Mark

I received an automated call about this today. This is the first time I remember getting a call like this from SCI.

Larry,

Maybe I initiated something. When I called this AM and asked about cash donations for the litigation they left me on hold for about 10 minutes and then came back giving me the info I posted. I got the impression they were making it up as they went along.

Supposedly they will send an e-mail confirmation
of receipt of the donation saying the money went directly to fund the litigation. I have not received anything yet.

Mark

Save your money. Use it to buy tickets to the upcoming Madonna "Let's Go Trophy Hunting" concert tour that will redefine the public perception of hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Save your money. Use it to buy tickets to the upcoming Madonna "Let's Go Trophy Hunting" concert tour that will redefine the public perception of hunting.

Yep Mike, only your way is the right way. Make sport of all other ideas. That's the problem RIGHT THERE with this demographic.

But Steve...Mike's way (which has always been Conservation Force's way) has been so successful. Why would anyone want to go a different route???

I am open to good ideas. I just do not count a public relations campaign to redefine hunting as one of them. Godspeed to you in your efforts.

Mike,
While I am for the effort SCI is doing. USF&W has been sued so many times over stuff like this with a majority unsuccessful...it's starting to fit the definition of insanity...or did a looonnnnngggggg time ago.

While it (litigation) needs to be pursued...let's at least do soommmmmtthhhiiimnnggggg different.

Look at how the oryx, addax, and dama gazelle deal turned out. Hunting was essentially banned for most (unless going through the pain of the permitting), but then it was exempted via the "Three Amigos" action in Congress. I hope I got that correct, but it does show USFS can be circumvented.

It's not rocket science. The NRA has demonstrated that with a broad membership, with the ability to engage members politically, with a large pot of lobby dollars to spread around and with an unyielding approach, they are quite effective. NRA dues are $35/year, SCI is $65/year and DSC is $100/year. That would be a place to start. Another would be getting DSC and SCI to work together regularly and in a coordinated manner. It really is not that hard.

Yeah...I have been an NRA member since 1983. At one time...they worked hard for their popularity. They used Charlton Heston back when they needed PR help. Today...the 2nd amendment is the "in thing." Even Obama is reluctant to take that on.

Give hunting the same face...conservation through sustainable use...as the NRA gave the 2nd amendment and then you have done something. Something more than all the lawsuits and acts of congress collectively will ever do.

Yes...a PR campaign is exactly how the NRA got that membership that gives them the bucks which make them effective...BUT better yet...it made them POPULAR.

What I can't understand about the NRA is
why we can't increase beyond 5mil much if any.
Seems like everyone wants to buy guns n ammo
but, not join up. I join at least half dozen
a yr by paying the first yrs $35. IF we'd all do that
I think it'd help much.
Wish you all well, back to the subject.
George

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I am open to good ideas. I just do not count a public relations campaign to redefine hunting as one of them. Godspeed to you in your efforts.

A PR campaign is all about attracting new members and lobbying money by exposing the organization to everyone and at the same time educating on the role of hunting as conservation.

I dont think a fancy written message posted at the top of this forum will WOW people into opening up their wallets too.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Another would be getting DSC and SCI to work together regularly and in a coordinated manner.

Good idea, but it ain't ever gonna happen!

Guys,

SCI is making a real effort to do something about the ivory ban and we could help. Maybe we should get behind this NOW and if any fantastic plan comes up in the future we can get on board with that when the time comes.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

SCI is making a real effort to do something about the ivory ban and we could help. Maybe we should get behind this NOW and if any fantastic plan comes up in the future we can get on board with that when the time comes.

Mark

+1

Mark,If the Ivory is lost to the hunters this year,could its value be channelled into the cost of a proper survey of Elephants on the ground. Seems like a lot of guessing is going on. jc

John,

There's a long answer to this but if the ivory cannot be sold it has no monetary value so it is of no help in financing anything.

Mark

TTT

SCI IS self serving and works with on one!, I prefer autonomous DSC. at least they seem to be respectful as well as receptive.

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
SCI IS self serving and works with on one!, I prefer autonomous DSC. at least they seem to be respectful as well as receptive.

That's really good to know. Could you tell us what DSC is doing at present about the USF&W import ban on Zim Ele?

Not really sure. One thing is for certain- a regular member of SCI couldn't get close enough to anyone of influence in at act to talk about the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Not really sure. One thing is for certain- a regular member of SCI couldn't get close enough to anyone of influence in at act to talk about the issue.

Utterly ridiculous statement. You have no clue if DSC is doing anything you just think that SCI is bad (self serving).

I have been a member of both on and off for the last several years. I have not had (nor felt the need) to communicate with anybody at DSC office.

I rejoined SCI a couple of weeks ago and sent them an email concerning the elephant issue. They have since called me and I have also participated in a conference call to help address the issue. I am just a new yearly member of no particular importance but they responded to my first request in a timely fashion.

SCI is like the NRA, far from perfect but the best we have now. If anybody comes up with something better I will support that organization also.

I have seen first hand what happens when fisherman sit back and do nothing but complain. The Feds have virtually shutdown our recreational red snapper fishing in the Gulf. The commercial guys had a much better lobby and are in far better shape for commercial harvest of snapper than the recreational guys.

Let us fragment and argue amongst ourselves, it will be all we have to do since we will not be hunting elephants (and probably lion).

The Feds care not what SCI, DSC, you, me, or most of the Congress thinks of them. They have no oversight. The only way to reach them is to de-fund them.

Here's a fine example of their well thought out work. It occurred right after I moved to Dillingham, Alaska. Eventually the Feds went in with helicopters and gunners and did their best to exterminate the Reindeer. They had no viable plan for extraction of meat. Left the majority lay and rot.

In Alaska that's wanton waste and punishable by suspension of hunting rights, a heavy fine, and confiscation of all equipment.

Unfortunately, that did not happen.

USF&W thinks they are above reproach!!

Hagemeister Island

Mike
Sci member for 20+ years! DSC about 16 years. You are a member "a few years"? Been involved in many issues over the years. Pretty much gave up on SCI 8 years ago. Unless you are in the upper crust, SCI is more interested in your wallet than your ideas. "We've got it covered" was the best I could get out of them. Now I'm with DSC. I vote with my shoes and my wallet!

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
It's not rocket science. The NRA has demonstrated that with a broad membership, with the ability to engage members politically, with a large pot of lobby dollars to spread around and with an unyielding approach, they are quite effective. NRA dues are $35/year, SCI is $65/year and DSC is $100/year. That would be a place to start. Another would be getting DSC and SCI to work together regularly and in a coordinated manner. It really is not that hard.

Come on Mike,

Don't compare the NRA with SCI!

The NRA has always fought for your right to own and use firearms.

SCI has been engaged in nothing more than self aggrandizing for so long they have lost direction of protecting your right to hunt.

That old saying comes to mind.

Comparing chalk to cheese

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Mike
Sci member for 20+ years! DSC about 16 years. You are a member "a few years"? Been involved in many issues over the years. Pretty much gave up on SCI 8 years ago. Unless you are in the upper crust, SCI is more interested in your wallet than your ideas. "We've got it covered" was the best I could get out of them. Now I'm with DSC. I vote with my shoes and my wallet!

I joined both the NRA and SCI at the same time 30 odd years ago.

I have never had any cause to complain about the NRA.

SCI, however, I can write a bloody book about their shenanigans!

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Mike
Sci member for 20+ years! DSC about 16 years. You are a member "a few years"? Been involved in many issues over the years. Pretty much gave up on SCI 8 years ago. Unless you are in the upper crust, SCI is more interested in your wallet than your ideas. "We've got it covered" was the best I could get out of them. Now I'm with DSC. I vote with my shoes and my wallet!

So help me out here, I would like to understand what DSC has done to address the elephant trophy import ban. SCI has:

* Established a website link for members and non-members to write their Congressmen
* Organized a lobby day for Thursday to show grassroots opposition to the ban
* Filed a lawsuit
* In conjunction with the lawsuit are seeking a preliminary injunction to reverse the ban

I just went to the DSC website, help me out, I cannot find any information on the website about the ban (other than a statement they issued and a short letter they sent to the USFWS), what action DSC recommends that its members take, anything that facilitates allowing members to take action, anything that described the efforts that DSC has underway to address the ban, etc. I get the Game Trails Online published by DSC and have not seen any call to arms to take action. Does that mean that I believe DSC is sitting on its hands? Probably not, but it sure seems like they would do a better job of calling the issue to the attention of their members and letting members know what they are doing to respond.

No one is suggesting that SCI does not have its faults. But let's focus on the issue at hand. SCI is engaged. Where is DSC?

Mike,

Since I made the decision to go to DC, I have stayed off of this forum. To be perfectly honest, I have found the attitudes here to be disappointing. I felt myself getting frustrated and in fact angry with the big talk, no action types that seem to have the most to say and the least effort to provide.

I will continue to stay away until after DC.

It's a shame really. AR could be a genuine additive force in this battle if it chose to.

See you Thursday.

Best,

Jeff

Jeff, it is disheartening to say the least. At a time when sport hunting is facing a direct frontal attack to see the actions of some measured by "let's keep our finger's crossed" to denigrating the groups that have joined the battle does not inspire tremendous optimism with respect to the outcome for sure.

Mjines,

I do appreciate your vigor in pursuit of justice. I have no idea what DSC OR SCI are doing on various issues. I do know that there is a pattern with SCI AS WELL AS DSC! SCI will make a show about it to a bigger extent than DSC. In the end with a lot of chest beating and flag waving, very little results will be forthcoming.Then there will be many attempts at fund raising with the mantra "we need to throw more money at the problem. Another committee you don't know the membership there of etc, etc,. Just look at all of the reports of hoe many government goons are noncommittal on this issue. And the need our vote to screw us. They are a lot closer to home as well!

The Above post sums it all up nicely...

I'm gone.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Mjines,

I do appreciate your vigor in pursuit of justice. I have no idea what DSC OR SCI are doing on various issues. I do know that there is a pattern with SCI AS WELL AS DSC! SCI will make a show about it to a bigger extent than DSC. In the end with a lot of chest beating and flag waving, very little results will be forthcoming.Then there will be many attempts at fund raising with the mantra "we need to throw more money at the problem. Another committee you don't know the membership there of etc, etc,. Just look at all of the reports of hoe many government goons are noncommittal on this issue. And the need our vote to screw us. They are a lot closer to home as well!

Yeah, you're right. F-it, let's just blow it off and quit wasting our time. No big deal anyway. C'est la vie!

Now let's get back to something meaty to discuss, is cotton underwear preferable on a safari or is a synthetic a better choice? I have got to get this figured out.

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Mjines,

I do appreciate your vigor in pursuit of justice. I have no idea what DSC OR SCI are doing on various issues. I do know that there is a pattern with SCI AS WELL AS DSC! SCI will make a show about it to a bigger extent than DSC. In the end with a lot of chest beating and flag waving, very little results will be forthcoming.Then there will be many attempts at fund raising with the mantra "we need to throw more money at the problem. Another committee you don't know the membership there of etc, etc,. Just look at all of the reports of hoe many government goons are noncommittal on this issue. And the need our vote to screw us. They are a lot closer to home as well!

Thank you.

Very nicely put.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Mjines,

I do appreciate your vigor in pursuit of justice. I have no idea what DSC OR SCI are doing on various issues. I do know that there is a pattern with SCI AS WELL AS DSC! SCI will make a show about it to a bigger extent than DSC. In the end with a lot of chest beating and flag waving, very little results will be forthcoming.Then there will be many attempts at fund raising with the mantra "we need to throw more money at the problem. Another committee you don't know the membership there of etc, etc,. Just look at all of the reports of hoe many government goons are noncommittal on this issue. And the need our vote to screw us. They are a lot closer to home as well!

Thank you.

Very nicely put.

The "finger's crossed fraternity" seems to be growing. The reality is that I suspect some members of the finger's crossed fraternity actually have their finger's crossed hoping not for success, but for failure. Success would undermine their constant negative mantra and myopic views.

These attitudes really shock me. I can't believe that sitting around and doing nothing is going to work.

Larry,

That's the point. Even the hunter of very meager means can do SOMETHING by making whatever donation they feel comfortable with. This ivory ban is going to effect everybody that ever even though they might consider going on safari let alone those that thought they could hunt elephant. This is ivory ban a really bad thing.

Mark

Mjines,

I fully support removing any and all bans regarding the SPORT HUNTING WORLD WIDE. Why is it our country should set artificial standards for other countries when the very people we delegate to regulate sport hunting have hardly a clue of how to manage in our country much less others! I don't think anyone knows which button to push when it comes to getting the "JOB" done. Your anger/ disillusionment is misplaced calling down on those of us that have walked this walk many times over the last 45 years. The truth is some USFWS HACK has more clout than we as sportsmen/ sportswomen have. Show ME where to place my hard earned cash to do the most good and I will provide some well needed cash. The shotgun approach really never quite gets it done, usually. I mean you no disrespect. I give you the latitude to do as your passion directs. I think politicizing the issue is polarizing. That may be the best that can come from this thread.

quote:

Show ME where to place my hard earned cash to do the most good and I will provide some well needed cash.

lb 404,

We don't know what will definitively work but we need to try something. Saying your not coming to the party until it looks like its going to be a blowout benefits nobody. In my mind the support is needed now not once we might be winning.

Mark