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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting How much gratuity for staffGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
Just trying to get my ducks all in a row. I am booked in Tanz for a 16 day lion/leopard/buff/croc/hippo this coming Oct/Nov. How much gratuity for staff would one reccommend? I have a good idea for my PH but would like to know about the staff, especially if they do a great job. The PH disperses this amount to the staff and I'm sure that it all goes to them. Dutch | ||
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I didnt think you could hunt lion on a 16 day license anymore??  6x NFR Qualifier NFR Champion Reserve World Champion Bareback Rider PRCA Million Dollar Club 02' Salt Lake Olympic Qualifier and an all around good guy! | |||
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if you do a search under tipping you'll find more information than you can probably digest. the subject has been pretty well beaten to death here | |||
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Silwane: I paid for a 21 day hunt but can only hunt 16 days. Dutch | |||
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I got it.....I was fixing to say, "Where do I sign up!!" 6x NFR Qualifier NFR Champion Reserve World Champion Bareback Rider PRCA Million Dollar Club 02' Salt Lake Olympic Qualifier and an all around good guy! | |||
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I was advised that the PH would make a recommendation to the client. In my case that was true and I followed his lead. A different PH working for the same camp told me that he thought it was poor for a client to tip over the PH recommendation as it gave the camp staff different expectations. In my case the PH didn't recommend his own tip, but since I had discussed that beforehand with others I gave him what was recommended. | |||
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Dutch, it is good to ask here for a frame of reference and so you don't end up getting taken, but they all differ. You must absolutely pose this question to your outfitter/PH. I have found this topic to be minimized in the early sales stages of the safari, to the extent that it has been said in advertisements that "tips are optional", but this is ridiculous especially when it comes to the staff. The good companies will have this all organized to the point that you have a list of the people in camp (camp manager, cook, waiter, assistants, misc camp help, skinners, trackers, driver...don't be surprised if there are 20-25 names on the list!) and what the recommendations are for each. At the very least, the PH can tell you beforehand what the norm total is, and you can carve it up as you see fit. Do realize that you are hunting "lion", are an American, and you will be in Tanzania - so the expectations will be high.  | |||
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Well said Bill. Excellent advice. LDK Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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Thanks, Bill C., that's good advice I actually composed an email to my PH yesterday requesting his input as his brochure states that he does not wish for the client to give the tips directly to the staff. I held off sending it so that I could get input from another client of his that is currently out of town. But it makes sense for him to tell me. I will follow his advice. Dutch | |||
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I am just curious, why on earth would he not want the client to give the staff tips??? I include a set fee for all staff OTHER than PH's in our prices. After the bill is settled, I give the client the money in Rands, line the staff up, and let him give it to them. With a PH it is different, and the client must use his own discretion there, but I would say about 10% of the day rate on a DG hunt, is a fair tip IMHO. Tips is something I do not like, as I'm getting paid for my services in any case, but with "free lance" PH's it is very much a big deal, and expected from clients. And Bill is right.....and American and a lion......prepare for that  Good luck, and we look forward to your report. Aim low and slow..... Cheers Charl van Rooyen www.infinito-safaris.com Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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Bill has given you some good advice, the tip level is extremely dependant on the safari campany you've booked with - so the best thing you can do is ask the company concerned. I have to say, it's strange that they suggested you don't pay your tips direct to the staff. - esp in Tanzania. The usual way is for the client and PH to sit together and the client hands each individual tip to each individual staff member with a few words of thanks. I've hunted Tanzania for many years and can't ever remember an occasion where the tip has been given to the PH for him to disperse amongst the staff. - I'm not suggesting it never happens, just that I've never seen or heard of it.... and I guarantee the staff wouldn't like it very much. | |||
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Serious? _______________________________  | |||
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I received a response from the PH and he indicated a range that others had given in the past. It was certainly in line with what I expected. I did not ask why I should not give to the staff. However, I think that he did not want his clients to give directly to the staff as it may cause hard feelings if one felt shorted. Just my thinking. However, I would expect that we will hand out the cash and gifts I bring at the end of the hunt. Dutch | |||
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When I hunted in Tanzania in 2006 with my dad our PH handed us a list for what he felt were fair tips for himself and the staff at the end of the hunt. We paid 10,500 each for a 2 x 1, 10 day buffalo hunt with 2 buffalo each, all inclusive except charters. The PH proposed $1,500 for himself and $1,500 total for the camp staff from each of us. I felt the tips he proposed were out of line at $3,000 for a 10,500 hunt. I don't like the idea of someone proposing how much I should tip them. From what I had read and heard from people, 10% of the daily rate is what would be the normal for satifactory performance for the PH, and and equal amount for the camp staff. Our daily rate was $700 a day approximately, so I was prepared to tip that or more if the service was good. As it was, the service provided by the hunting company (Usangu) sucked, as our vehicles were running out of gas and breaking down, fuel at the camp ran out for the generators, we were in an area that had been overhunted, etc., but the PH and camp staff worked their ass of for us and I was prepared to tip in excess of the 10% of the daily rate. But after his proposed tip amounts I was a little pissed off and his tip suffered. | |||
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I tipped the apprentice hunter last year who had worked very hard (he was also the camp manager and videographer). I felt like it was appropriate and it seemed to surprise him. I also made sure the #1 and #2 trackers were tipped well. However, you should really take the PH's recommendations on these things to heart. One of the experienced forum members here tipped too much recently in Zim to the trackers (it was intended to be a very high tip). The end result was the PH lost his trackers for a few days due to a long drunk. He won't do that again. _______________________________ | |||
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I would definitely talk to the PH about the camp and tracker tips. There is a "pecking order" and you don't want to tip someone more than another if they are "above" them on the order. Head tracker gets more than the regular trackers, cooks get more than the fire keeper that heats the water, etc. I was in my hut the last night packing after I tipped everyone when my PH came in and said, "We have a real problem". I asked what it was and he said we forgot one person when we tipped the staff. I said, "No problem, we'll just tip him". Anyway, he was "camped out" at the front door and would not leave until he got his tip. He was the fire keeper that heated the water and the PH suggested a $10 tip. Very demanding. I tipped him appropriately and he was on his way, but the PH was really concerned and seemed very shook up that we missed someone! Make sure you tip the skinners, I have heard bad things if you don't. Just my experience. I am sure everyone has a different answer. | |||
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Infinito, I could easily go for an arrangement like that for camp staff, it would make life much simpler. PH,trackers and skinners I'd as soon pay myself, since I am in close contact with them during the hunt and their efforts are far more important to me than how my shirt is ironed. | |||
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 ditto!!!!!nothin sweeter than the smell of fresh blood on your hunting boots | |||
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I had a company forbid me to tip the staff directly, saying that they held all tips until the end of the season and then dsitributed them. They also had a "required" amount of tipping for the staff, which the hunter could increase it if desired. I guess I could have lowered them if I wanted, but I increased them. I've had the outfitter want me to give the tips directly to him several times for his distribution to the staff. I'm always skeptical that the tips are actually getting to the intended recipient. In those situations, I usually tip the staff a little personally anyway ($20.00) or so, just so I can express my appreciation. I think the outfitter getting in the middle in this way really takes away the hunter's chance to express appreciation for some of the hardest working people on earth! | |||
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Folks, We've really beat the amount to tip thing to death and I don't think there is any hard and fast answer to that question. I've hunted in 8 different African countries and multiple camps in half that number and I'm telling you there is no norm for tipping. My preference is to give the money to the PH and let him figure out who gets what. Then the folks can come by, shake hands and say thanks. Atthat time if a tracker or whoever was particularly helpful I might give him something to show my special thanks. As for amount of the tip I think the PH's advise is a good barometer but if your not comfortable with that give what you can. Personally in my expereince camp crews in Tanzania and Botswana with the high dollar operators will expect more. A Tanzania operator has a suggested additional tip on shooting a cat. In Bots I was presented a list of 23 names with blanks after them that I was supposed to fill in with dollar amounts. I only was there 4 days and hadn't even seen 23 people. In Zim, Zambia, Moz and RSA folks don't expect so much. Cameroon had a REQUIRED camp tip. Our Namibian PH did not accept tips and added his tip to the crew tip. Tip what you find appopriate. I do think a DG hunt deserves more of a tip than a plains game hunt. I also think a hunt in the wilderness deserves a bigger tip than in a lodge situation where everything is easier. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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I don't understand this. Why do people believe that the value of their services has any relationship to the wealth of their customers? Does a restaurant charge more for a bowl of soup, an fillet or a bottle of wine based on the wealth of the customer? I say this because while I do okay for myself, I suspect that the my hunting costs represent a larger fraction of my disposable income than many people that post here. | |||
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I don't think it's anything to do with what country the client is from..... it's more associated to the fact that it's a 21 day full bag safari. Traditionally, the longer more expensive safaris usually generate higher tips that a less expensive, shorter Buffalo hunt for example. We certainly don't expect Americans to tip more than clients from elsewhere....... | |||
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First, thanks for all your useful information on this board. If my questions come off as grilling or angry, please understand that it is not my intent. Are larger percentage tips "expected"? Or is the percentage the same and the tip is just larger because it is based on a larger amount? | |||
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dla69 I didn't detect any anger.... and thanks for those kind words.Tips are always a difficult subject and as Craig Boddington says in his book, 'The Safari Experience', although not mandatory, they are traditional...... and I'll add to that by saying they make a big contribution to the staff's income - and are very greatly appreciated by them. Sometimes the tip increase is on a pro rata basis when compared to a shorter hunt but not always. Again, as CB says, tips should not be based on success of the hunt, because although the hunt might not always be successful, any failure isn't usually the fault of the staff, it's just the way things go. Not everyone is successful in all their hopes all of the time. (That's not a direct quote, but it is the sentiment he rightly expressed in the book). - That said, shouldn't and isn't are not always the same thing and sometimes, in the real world the success of the hunt is reflected in the size of the tip. Really, the best thing to do is consult the outfitter beforehand on what level of tip he'd suggest, and go from there. Believe me, tips vary enormously from area to area. Personally, I think that one needs to consider things like whether any or all of the staff had to do things like go into the crocodile etc infested river to recover a dead or possibly dead croc or hippo etc. - or risk their lives in other ways such as following up and dispatching a wounded Leopard etc or if it was a one shot kill without any danger involved. I also believe that good manners are extremely important, not only to me, but also and actually, more importantly, to the staff. Whilst not meaning to insult anyone here, I've seen occasions where PHs and the entire camp and hunting staff have done that sort of thing and client has watched from the bank. - When the animal had been recovered, they've just gotten into the truck and driven away without a word of thanks to anyone involved ......... Frankly, I think that's bloody rude to say the very least.  - But, that said, maybe it's just a cultural thing, because I'm English. | |||
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I'm still waiting to go to Africa. But in my North American Hunts, the best trophy that I took got the biggest tip the one unsuccessful trip got the worst. However, in both cases the tip was not based on the success of the hunt, but the willingness of each of the guides to hunt hard. I went moose hunting in Newfoundland and my guide got sick and the "outfitter" called in a kid that had never guided before in his life. He couldn't have found a moose on the Rocky and Bullwinkle show (Bullwinkle is a cartoon moose). In addition to a lack of knowledge, which is only obtained at the expense of hunters like myself, this kid was lazy. I wanted to hunt - all day. He wanted to take long lunches at the camp. I never saw a bull moose. On my elk hunt, we hunted hard. I turned down several 300 class animals, before finding one that I wanted on the next to last day. He got a big tip, because of his effort.
I understand what you're saying, but isn't this also considered in the daily fees? If I'm hunting crocs or hippo's, isn't the daily fee higher such that the same percentage tip actually means more money to the staff?
I agree. I always help the guides as much as they'll let me. Be that gutting, loading, ... | |||
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Some things are considered in the daily rate and some aren't. for example, one could expect the PH to go looking for a wounded Leopard in the bush..... that's part of his job, BUT it's hardly in the job description of a camp cook to risk feeding himself to the flatties just to help the client get his croc trophy. - Nevertheless, most will go in without a thought, just to ensure the client goes home happy. - I personally think that an act like that should be reflected in the tip. I'm not suggesting he gets a shed load, just enough to ensure the client appreciates what was done for him. - Actually, in some ways, I think the words of thanks at the time are MORE important than the money. | |||
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I know an old guy guy in the uk that has always wanted to hunt africa and has been saving for a long time he has emailed a safari company in africa and when he asked the tips he was given a figure that was very high so he is waiting a longer before he goes as he he doesnt want to on a hunt and leave feeling guilty because he didnt leave a good enough tip and be remembered as a tight arse.I think there is a misconception that everybody that hunts is rich just my two cents | |||
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I think the tipping thing has gotten way out of hand. First of all, when one is paying to get a specified service, why is one then expected to pay more on top of that? I think it started out with some big shot who wanted to impress people. Now it has gotten so that everyone is trying to outdo everyone else. Oh, I realize that tipping is now well established and so I do it but I'm not going to be tipping each cook and bottle washer. In my opinion: 1. The outfitter should not be tipped unless he is also the PH. 2. I'll tip the PH 10% of the daily fees provided he/she did a competent job. 3. I'll also tip the tracker and skinners but will probably leave it to the PH (i.e., have the PH give them their tip) to decide how much they get unless they have given me personal exceptional service. 4. I may tip the cook. It's not my job to pay the salaries of all the outfitters staff. It has also gotten to the place that people expect tips even though they've done a poor job. A tip is supposed to be for service above the usual. If the job hasn't be done in a competent manner the courageous ones shouldn't tip at all. | |||
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