Hugh,

If all three rifles are identical and you were a reloader and loaded the 416 Rem, 404 and 416 to their full potential, the 416 Rigby would have far more recoil because the much bigger case will give much higher muzzle velocity and also have weight of powder.

The 404 would be slightly higher (but you could not measure it) than the 416 Remington because the 404 is a very slightly larger case than the 416 Rem, but only a couple of grains.

If load all 3 to 2400 then with the majority of loads used the 416 Rigby will stick kick the most as more weight of powder is being used. The 404 and 416 will be about the same.

There are certain laws of physics that all the pith helmets, malted scotch and nostalgia can't get around.

HOWEVER, a 404 in the right type of rifle might result in different attitudes or it might result in testing the rifle a different way to a 416 Remington in a fibreglass stock with match grade barrel etc

In other words the 404 might encourage a couple of shots across a bench or rest and a couple of shots busting a rock and then followed by a malt scotch or three. While the 416 Remington with the match grade barrel is being hammered away on the bench with different bullet types and then another group with the bullet seated .01" deeper and etc and etc.

Mike

This is all nmumbo, njumbo. I doubt anyone could tell how much powder is used in the case as regards recoil. Ray tried to convince me that somehow the 404 Jeffery was better than 416 Rem. way back when. I'm still waiting for a convincing argument.

If loaded as it was originally, the 400 gr. 404 Jeffery at ~2150 fps, it has less recoil because it has less energy. Big surprise there!

It also has less "stopping" potential, and less bullet penetration that a 416 bullet going 2,400 fps.

But, hey, if one wants a 404 Jeffery, I'm all for it. I think I will stick with more horsepower and more penetration.

Omnivorous_Bob

Norma makes private brand brass, ammo for number of companies, Weatherby, Federal, Winchester, Parker Hale, RWS, HP, Browning, Decathlon, Sako, Dakota, Geco, Lapua, Kynoch, Greener, Walther Gehmann and even Blaser

It's happy times again! shotguns with external hammers, mausers, mannlichers and old cartridges are in vogue 404 Jeffery really never disappeared like many of the nitro calibers did

Cheers
/ JOHAN

Will, as you know, the .404Jeff. can be loaded to vel. levels eq/ to or slightly better than a .416rem. What's good about this dev. is MAYBE bullet makers in the USA will give us reasonably priced bullets & brass for this great old round. Nothing wrong w/ the .416rem. it just isn't as sexy as the .404jeff.

Hugh,

The recoil caused by a 400 grain bullet at 2150 fps or so would be significantly less than the recoil caused in a rifle of equal weight and a muzzle velocity of 2400 fps. Don't remember the equation right now but don't need to--my shoulder is better than physics when dealing in matters of recoil! Load a 404 at the lower speed and one at 2400 fps. Shoot them one right after the other--there's quite a bit of increase....but don't take my word for it--try it yourself!

Yeah, I don't deny that the 404 Jeffery can be suped up, but the factory ammo should be the original loading for liability concerns if nothing else.

My "magic" criteria is to have a bullet with a Penetration Index (PI) of at least 100. With a .416 solid bullet going 2150 fps, the PI is right at 100. So there you go, the 404 Jeffery has the needed pentration to kill most anything even at 2150 fps, which has been field proven for the last jillion years.

(And no, I do not want to argue about bullet design or construction ).

But what about futile gestures in support of useless causes? Please do not let me down!

Death be not proud! And be not, SVP, at the muzzle of an underpowered .423, or was that .419, or was that CIP or SAAMI or SAAKMBA!

Tony, Judge and children,
The original .404 loads were indeed about 2000 FPS (reality), but the good firm or Kynoch and such soon bowed to the requests for more velocity and then they produced a load of about 2315 FPS as I understand it...

I have shot a number of bulls with both loads, mostly with Woodleigh softs and solids and never had a complaint, but I assure you that 2400 FPS is a better and more effective load than any 2100 fps load for the black bulls.

The thinking has to change with the advent of todays super premium bullets, they have enabled us to shoot'em faster, and thats a fact, and faster with a performing bullet kills better. Yeah, I hate it too, but poop happens.

Your nostalgia is surfacing, so just a reminder that the big dog always sleeps on the poarch!

I am tickled by this announcement. That means that I can shoot off my Woodleigh handloads and load up Northforks to 2400 fp for DG and then go out and buy Woodleighs at 2150 for plainsgame. Admittedly, the trajectory won't be the same as the .375 for, say, gemsbok in the Kalahari, but for the majority of African hunting those two loads will do it all. I jes' gotta put a new stock on my Parker-Hale.