I'm thinking about another cat hunt and I'm also thinking I should take advantage of the new technology and buy an illuminated reticule scope. I'd be very interested in anyone's real world expereince with any illuminated reticule scope. The Trijicon seems to be the way to go but I've had no exposure to them.

THX

Mark

I've got a swarovski and it's awesome, more expensive than trijicon, but you get what you pay for in life!

I used a Leupold illumnated 1.5-5 scope on both my Zim hunts and it really helps my old eyes with target acquisition. I also used it on a bushbuck at last light and probably would not have been able to see the cross hairs without it. But even in the daylight, that red cross shows up nicely on a buffalo.

I also used a Trijicon TriPower for elephant and buffalo last hunt, mounted on my Krieghoff. No magnification just the illuminated arrow. Glad I had it, although it is non-traditonal and ugly on a double rifle.

I also hope to hunt leopard on the next buffalo hunt and am pretty sure my next scope will be the Trijicon 2.5-10 x 56. No batteries needed and a 56mm scope ought to be good in low light.

My only reservation about Trijicon scopes is that they cost near what I can buy a Leupold illuminated scope or a Swarovski non-illuminated scope for and I doubt the glass in the Trijicon is as good as Swarovski or Leupold.

I put the Trijicon 1 X 4 with the german cross hair with the center part illuminated,, not the aiming point on my 416 Rigby. Until now I have been shooting it open sights. I looked at all of them at the DSC in Dallas this past January and I think that is what sold me on the model I choose, being able to look at all of the options at one venue. This summer I will be using it in Australia on a asiatic buffalo hunt. I haven't used it in the bush yet just at the range but it seems to speed up my aiming more than with the open sights. I decided to skip Africa this summer with world cup play there and try something different. I will let you know how it works in a true test when I get back,, we got 10 culls apiece and may add a few trophy's as well,,It does have plenty of eye relief to keep my eye brow out of the way!

I'm picking up a Swarovski Z6i 1-6x20 with the extended eye relief to put on my double. I'd be glad to give you some feed back when I have it.

Brett

I just got a Trijicon 1.5 x 4 with the Amber Dot. Plan to use it on Slug Gun and DG Rifles. Not sure how long before I get to try it out. I've yet to hear anything Bad about them.

I have hunted in Africa with my 375H&H equipped with an S&B 1x4x24 with an illuminated No 4 reticle. The center dot is illuminated and is adjustable for lighting from pitch dark to full, bright sunlight.

The No 4 reticle does it all during day light and the center dot does it all when its too dark to see the reticle.

I shot two hyhena in near pitch dark using the combo. Couldn't see the hyhena with the naked eye, only some vague movement. Couldn't make out the hyhena well either, but their heavy front end and taller front shoulders provided enough info on which end was which. I knew where my shot was going because of the illuminated center dot.

I tried leopard hunting with the combo and could see well enough to shoot with a 1/4 moon and bright stars, but the cat never showed while the moon was up.

For a 375H&H, the S&B or the Swaro Z6 1x6 with an illuminated reticle would be my choice.

For a lighter rifle intended for deer, elk, PG hunting and also for leopard, I would choose the S&B 1.5x6x42 with the same illuminated No 4 reticle. That would be fine scope for 375H&H too, but I hate larger eticles on my 375H&H.

JPK

I have the Leupold 30 mm illuminated reticle on one of my .375 H&H's and it came in very handy with the monster leopard that I shot in Zimbabwe. I also have another one on the Searcy 450-400 with Talley rings and mounts, and one on my 458 Lott. You ain't as young as you used to be, Mark. (No pun intended)

I've used many optics between civilian law enforcement and military special operations and feel the Trijicon is as good or better than all the competition. I currently have the 2.5-10X56 and it has great light gathering ability and the fiber-optic reticle allows you to have no need for batteries. I think the glass they use is as durable as any others and a true test of this is the US Military putting them on all their M-16 rifles. I can tell you from my day's in the trenches that military equipment is put to the test on a daily basis. Lets just say they are not treated with kid gloves and there is no cushy gun racks that the rifles go in every night... My vote is definitely Trijicon Optics...DAN

Mark - A friend of mine brought his Swarovski Z6i on a hunt we did last year in Africa. I was very impressed with it. Haven't used the Trijicon scopes, but I would be interested to hear your opinion if you get one?

Good luck!!

I don't think anyone is questioning the durability of the Trijicon- the issue is glass and coatings quality. I am also considering the purchase of an illuminated reticle scope and am atrongly considering the 1x4 Trijicon.

I have a Z6i 1-6x24. It's great. My only complaint about the function of the scope is that the on/off switch is easy to accidentally trigger -- something I learned last fall while hiking through thick brush on a moose hunt. Before I bought the scope, I compared it to a Trijicon and a Nightforce, and its optics were noticeably superior to both.

Leopard at last light, A scope should be at least a 2.5 up 10X magnification 30mm tube with a minimum 50mm bell.
My illuminated is a Leupold VariX III 2.5/10X with a German #4 config with the Dot illuminated. The cool part it runs on one watch batteries and has a 360 degree switch. Can be turned on either way.
My cat came in right at dark. No lights allowed to illuminate and I could see him stand up on a lion bait through the scope and I made the shot.
Our blind had a top on it we were under a vine and built into it. It was pitch black inside of the blind.
I wonder if a trijicon would show up?

Regards,

Mike

quote:

the issue is glass and coatings quality

I beleive that there are 6 main issues related to scope optics.

1. A sturdy construction
2. The purity of the optics and its grinding (shaping) for clear crisp magnification and light gathering.
3.The coatings in the tube and on the glass that preserve and in some cases actually enhance the most important visual spectrums of light.
4.The reticle;shape, size,contrast and possibly ranging assistance.
5. Size and Magnification which combinded to a large degree the importance of the other 4.


A couple years ago one of the "top" optics guys told me that with the perfection of computer grinding that no longer was the European crafsmanship an issue in optics re; glass clearity.

If construction, glass quality,size and magnification are more or less addressed as equal the only remaing issues are coatings and reticles. (Which all the mfg's claim to have advanced/upgraded coatings)

So we go to comparisons;

I have a number of top brand scopes but they vary in size, power, etc. to do a fair comparison of low light issues. And while I can see a heck of a lot of difference between my Swarovski 8 x 42s over my Nikons and maybe a tad bit of difference to my buddies Leica binos I certainly don't see any decernable difference as far as distinguishing shape, texture, and what little color is left in dusk or dawn comparisons between my Trijicon AccuPoint 1.25-4x24 and my 1.5 x 4 Leupold.

Thus we are down to reticles and which the buyer prefers and that may well vary with different applications. Thinking point and shoot with good accuracy at reasonable to close ranges I personally like the lighted dot or the lighted triangle on post over crosshairs and more so the darker it gets.

Also I like a non battery system the further I get from a suply chain.

One final issue I found with a reostat system is that when sitting in near darkness suddenly turning up a reostat scope lighed systen too high tooo fast can burn out your night vision for a precious few seconds.

BR.

Mike O

all above are good, the important thing is not to go without a illuminated reticle.
Make sure you take extra batteries if you chose one that take batteries

I have the Leupold 1.5-5x with the circle/dot illuminated reticle (30mm tube) on both .416Rem and .458Lott, both in QR mounts. Have had them since Leupold first bought them out and think they are ideal for DG hunting. Late or early shooting for DG is not uncommon in my experience, and the circle/dot illuminated reticle is fast and accurate.

Mark:

I used a Trijicon 3x9 post reticle for a last light leopard and a last light buffalo hunting with the Duploys in Zambia this past year. I had it mounted on a custom Mauser in 375 H&H and I could not have been happier with both the clarity of the scope and the way the post stood out in the near dark. I could have used a 416 to shoot the Buff but as it was getting dark, and having already shot the leopard at near dark, I chose the 375 with the Trijicon. The 416 had a 1.75 x 6 leupold on it and there was no comparison between the two scopes in low light. I will probably leave the Trijicon on the 375 for an upcoming trip to Tanzania this year as a back up rifle for Buff and primary rifle for plains game.
Good Luck with your choice.

joec

For what it's worth, I have two Burris Euro-Diamond e-Dot scopes.

Rifle #1: 1-4x24 30mm e-Dot on a #4 reticle on my Montana 1999 375 H&H.

Rifle #2: 3-10x40 30mm e-Dot #4 reticle on my Ruger #1 in 7x57.

First off, yes. You do get what you paid for. I'm very happy with them both, especially since I bought them for around $450 each. But they are not as bright or clear as a Swarovski or Zeiss. They are very close to the Leupold VXIII - definitive photography coming soon. You can see a difference, but looking at 1" steel bars on a neighbors fence 400 yards away (at night, illuminated by a single 75 watt lightbulb) indicates that the Burris is plenty good.

But...the 1-4x scope isn't...it's more of a 1.1-4 and it's got a strange feeling at 1.1. It works much better turned to 1.5. The Swaro 1-6xi I tested was nothing short of fantastic...but then for near $2k it darn well better be.

The 3-10x40 has a slight yellow tint to it that doesn't work as well as the bluer tints.

The thing is, I don't know yet if it makes any difference. I'm setting up to take photo's at night to see how all my scopes compare. It may darn well be that the minimal difference in clarity just doesn't make any real shooting difference. I'm not too interested in finding another 3 minutes of shooting light.

But what I can say is that I LOVE the e-Dot #4 reticle. It's FAST to sight. You can adjust the density of the dot brightness - put it at about 50% and it's invisible during the day unless you hit a dark target and it pops out. And at 10% it's fantastic at night.

To me, the best part is that if you have the dot on at night, you really don't need any visibility. You can leave the front scope cover on and using a "Both eyes open" approach, the dot can still be placed on target and fired accurately.

Sorry, just rambling. If I had the money, I'd buy a Zeiss Diavari e-Dot or a Swaro... Oh well! I can dream.

One thing that has been proven to me and my eyes over and over again is that the better the optics the less objective lens you need for the same low light performance.

A second proven point is that you get what you pay for in optics (almost all of the time.)

There is a reason the European hunters, who do not face the same 1/2 hour before sunrise and after sunset restrictions that most US hunters do, use the scopes they do. Some of the gain comes from large objectives, but a lot comes from better optics too, including coatings.

A Leupold VX3, Zeiss Conquest or similar will do for 90%, maybe 95% or even 99% of the shooting US hunters will do, even in Africa. But the three or four top of the line makers and their top of the line scopes own the night.

JPK

Mark,

I use an Swedish scope - Aimpoint which I bought second hand from a soldier. He swore by it. Compact, non manification, the red dot is adjustable and it came with a very solid quick release mechanism. Can also take the recoil of a 50 calibre.

I have it on my .458 along with a bolt on torch for follow ups in low light conditions. Being of military specs it is very robust and I am really happy with it.

If you are considering a torch as well do not waste you money on a surefire as they are crap.

Mark, I've been considering a Trijicon also. I'm planning on putting one on a Ruger RSM 416 Rigby - so eye relief was an issue for me. I've decided on the 1.25-4X24 as it has 3.4-4.8" as opposed to the 1-4x24 which has 3.2". I have 2 Swarovksi Z-6's (not illuminated) and the quality is extraordinary, but so is the price. Tom

One word of caution about the Trijicon scopes.... I had a client show up with a new pair mounted on his rifles. Not the best way to break in a new scope...taking it on safari without being used to it. We sighted in and made a few necessary adjustments. Later he didn't seem to be shooting well. One afternoon we were trying to get him set up on a Golden Jackal (that's a common jackal with a higher price tag 'marketing' you know). He was having trouble finding it in his scope. Finally I took his rifle. I couldn't find the damned thing either. In examining the scope I found that the focus ring only neeeded to move a few degrees between + and - but the eye piece mark was all the way to the bottom of the tube. It was like looking through a milk bottle. There's no click or detent to keep the focus ring in place and one needs to constantly check it. Just a warning.
Rich Elliott

As to the differences in the Trijicon 1.25-4x to the 1-4x, does anyone know if it is worth it to go to the 30mm tube for light gathering? I do like the fact that the smaller tube has more eye relief.

i've lost track of the things i've shot with that little red dot glowing. wouldn't leave home without it

The Vortex Crossfire on my Model 70 with its illuminated dot works like a charm.

Tube size, or at least 1 inch vs. 30mm, doesn't really affect "light gathering", which is more accurately called light transmission. Basically bigger tubes allow more range of reticle adjustment.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Tube size, or at least 1 inch vs. 30mm, doesn't really affect "light gathering", which is more accurately called light transmission. Basically bigger tubes allow more range of reticle adjustment.

Gato:

Of course, you're right. I asked the question poorly.

I realize that is true (at least so long as the ratio of objective lens diameter to magnification is sufficient) but what I'm asking for is if anyone has experience in comparing the two?

I have A Leupold VXL QD Manger 30mm tube,4-14x It has a small t in the center of the duplex that is lighted. It also has a reostat to adjust brightness. In regular light it looks the same as a Duplex reticle. In low light it SHINES!!!

Judge:

In general, most of the 30mm tubes, because they're European made, have better glass than MOST, but not all, of the 1 inch tubes (for an exception, the 30mm Leupies probably have the same glass as the 1 inch upper end Leupies), but very basically it is objective size and glass and coatings quality, both accuracy of grind and how much light each lense does (or doesn't, same coin two sides) transmit, that allows the quality of the image the shooter sees. In my personal experienc, the 1.5x6x32 Leupie is significantly better in low light than the 1.25-5x20 Leupie for one real world example. The Twilight factor is very real, and any user will have a better image in near dark conditions with the power cranked up somewhat. How much depends on the exact scope. For instance, using a Zeiss Diavari 3-12x56, my best view in very dark conditions is around 8x, give or take. This is just an observation relating to the twilight factor, not a suggestion that that would be a good DG scope.

Whether the small advantages of some examples of Euro glass 30mm tubes are worth the significantly higher prices is up to the individual. I think that most people "of an age", which includes me, have a very difficult time detecting minor low light differences in scope quality. Another factor is, how dark do you want it to be when you're shooting dangerous game? There's all kinds of exceptions to every generalization, leopard blind hunting comes to mind instantly, but with illuminated reticles I don't think the difference between a $600 Leupie and a $2000 Zeiss, S&B, etc is really worth the money for DG, and this is from someone who uses and admires Euro scopes and has a bunch of them. OTOH, if you want the best, then that extra $1000-$1500 or so will get you there. Discussions of what is the absolute best, money no object, today are tougher. I would suggest that S&B would be on the short list.

Talked with Craig Boddington at DSC about the Trijicon illuminated scopes and others. It is his opinion that they are the fastest at acquiring the target. He feels the quality of the Trijicon glass is far above their price. Sure, they sponsor him, but he has always been very candid with me about such things.

I have a Nightforce NXS 3.5 x 15 X 56 on my 7mm STW. The quality of the image in all light conditions amazes me still, but it really stood out by allowing me to see a Kudu right at last light and put the illuminated reticle on his shoulder in RSA/08.
The .375 or .416 I'll buy for a future trip to Africa will sport an NXS 2.5 X 10 X 32.

I have used the Trijicon for 4 years. I think they are a superior scope in every regard. I am off to CAR for Derby eland and savannah buffalo and will be using the Trijicon 3x9 with crosshairs and green dot- I love that scope and have used it here at home as well as all over Africa. No batteries, quick on target quick, and is the perfect cat scope in low light . You will love it.

Fairgame:
I am curious about your comment that Surefire lights are "crap". I have had good luck with them but I am also always considering a better alternative. What make flashlight do you recommend?

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
I'm thinking about another cat hunt and I'm also thinking I should take advantage of the new technology and buy an illuminated reticule scope. I'd be very interested in anyone's real world expereince with any illuminated reticule scope. The Trijicon seems to be the way to go but I've had no exposure to them.

THX

Mark

Have never held a Trijicon but would like to take a look at one. I do have a Leupold illuminated model and it is ok, not nearly as nice as my Swarovski illuminated circle dot model....those are really nice.

That said I am looking really hard at the Schmidt and Bender 1.1-4 with #7 or #9 illuminated recticle...nice stuff but you pay for it....when you factor in the "all in costs of a DG safari" a few hundred $ difference in a scope is cheap by comparison!

I have a Kahles Illuminated reticle on my 375. I originally bought it with a circle dot reticle but found it "too busy" when hunting. When I got back from my last safari, I sent it back to the factory and had it changed from the circle dot to the dot with crosshairs. Like it much better that way.

quote:

Have never held a Trijicon but would like to take a look at one. I do have a Leupold illuminated model and it is ok, not nearly as nice as my Swarovski illuminated circle dot model....those are really nice.

That said I am looking really hard at the Schmidt and Bender 1.1-4 with #7 or #9 illuminated recticle...nice stuff but you pay for it....when you factor in the "all in costs of a DG safari" a few hundred $ difference in a scope is cheap by comparison!

Jim:
Please send me whatever illuminated scope you cull. I will be very kind to it.

Recall that most makers use a 24mm objective in a 30mm straight tube scope. The 1" straight tube scopes accomodate 20mm objectives. That is a 20% increase in diameter and a much greater increase in area (don't feel like doing the math on the area calculation, but it is significant!)

If you are trying to get the best low light performance from a straight tube scope, the 30mm top end Eurpean scopes are the only viable option.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Judge:

In general, most of the 30mm tubes, because they're European made, have better glass than MOST, but not all, of the 1 inch tubes (for an exception, the 30mm Leupies probably have the same glass as the 1 inch upper end Leupies), but very basically it is objective size and glass and coatings quality, both accuracy of grind and how much light each lense does (or doesn't, same coin two sides) transmit, that allows the quality of the image the shooter sees. In my personal experienc, the 1.5x6x32 Leupie is significantly better in low light than the 1.25-5x20 Leupie for one real world example. The Twilight factor is very real, and any user will have a better image in near dark conditions with the power cranked up somewhat. How much depends on the exact scope. For instance, using a Zeiss Diavari 3-12x56, my best view in very dark conditions is around 8x, give or take. This is just an observation relating to the twilight factor, not a suggestion that that would be a good DG scope.

Whether the small advantages of some examples of Euro glass 30mm tubes are worth the significantly higher prices is up to the individual. I think that most people "of an age", which includes me, have a very difficult time detecting minor low light differences in scope quality. Another factor is, how dark do you want it to be when you're shooting dangerous game? There's all kinds of exceptions to every generalization, leopard blind hunting comes to mind instantly, but with illuminated reticles I don't think the difference between a $600 Leupie and a $2000 Zeiss, S&B, etc is really worth the money for DG, and this is from someone who uses and admires Euro scopes and has a bunch of them. OTOH, if you want the best, then that extra $1000-$1500 or so will get you there. Discussions of what is the absolute best, money no object, today are tougher. I would suggest that S&B would be on the short list.

Mark - I used a Trij 3 X 9, amber triangle on the Moz trip last year. I am opting for the green triangle for my next one. Should have let you have a look through it while we were in camp. You know the story on my Leopard, so it was hands down the best scope for the situation. You didn't mention what rifle you were putting it on, mine was a 9.3 X 62.

Hunter and Brandon each had the same scopes on 375's and chances are none of us will really get too serious about any other scope in the near future.
We all opted for the 3 X 9 over the 1 X 4's simply because the extra power was wanted/needed for longer range possibilites. To us the 3X on the low end, shooting both eyes open, was not a negative on big, mean, close targets.

After shooting it only a few times it's amazing how quickly targets can be picked up, I shoot it with both eyes open. Also you get so used to just the post/triangle in the field of view that any other scope you pick up looks really cluttered. No batteries, excellent glass , clarity, durable, and good price. I think you could buy 3 Trijs for the price some of the others are going for and no way are those 3 times better. By using the very tip of the triangle it's incredible how tight of groups you can get. PM me if you want to talk some more on this.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

mark ,
i have just taken the trijicon folks on safari with chifuti in the valley , we took two lions , a hippo, hyaena and several bait animals ..

the illuminted reticle is excellent - the fact that it use tritium means that even when there is no light for the fibre optic like in a blind at last light etc , you still get a glow ,but dont need batteries they have three colors , green , red and amber ,personally i like the amber.

the scopes are tough , have great glass and good light gathering capabilities , for a cat i would recommend the 3-9 german crosshair -

I use a Swarovski Z6i 1.7-10x42 on my 375 and can't imagine ever using anything else. When we were walking along a river gorge in Chewore last year I slipped on some wet stones and fell on top of the rifle which landed scope first. The top of the scope and the illuminating switch were both scared and dented and I feared the worst, but when we tried a shot the zero hadn't moved 5mm. You get what you pay for !!!