Please move to political forum, then I can go and reply there to John the Greek.

Red

Hey Sharpshooter:

Big article in a recent copy of Fortune mag about your town - sounds like it is boom town with oil extraction.

Sharpshooter,

Is your avatar from the para regiment? Long ago in North Carolina I did some exchange training with the Canadian Para's. We all got thrown out of the all-rank's club for getting pissed (drunk) and doing the dance-of-the-flaming-asshole. My favorite story from those guys was about a camp follower named "Hot Wheels". Said young lady had gotten drunk one night and passed out on the railroad tracks. Fortunately her money maker was untouched, so she continued to ply her trade from a wheeled cart. The heart of the story was that one night she was intent on going home, but she was drunk and it was cold that night. Her client didn't want her freezing to death so he wouldn't let her leave. She started to throw a fit, so he put several coat hangers between her back and her coat, and then hung her up in the closet. He gave her a small bottle of Navy Rum for company. After he heard snoring he let her down to sleep it off.
I heard the story told the same way by different soldiers so it might even be true. Can you imagine putting that in a book? No one would believe it.
lawndart

Yes I was a member of the Airborne Regt. Got here to Fort McMoney by a long road, it's a boomtown that has grown really fast and as a result housing and the sevice sector are hurting. Had a dream of going to africa since I was 4 years old, realized it last year, was planning retun safari on the way back.
For the rest of the people, Fort McMurray is located 5 hours north of civilization, we are on top of a large oil deposit, the oil is in sand. There are three, truck/shovel plants extacting at the moment with more going in. Good wages and good hunting in the area, our range has target butts out to 530 yards.

I was very impressed with the Canadians back at Fort Bragg. Damn good soldiers; a little older and more professional than the average 82nd Airborne troopie.

lawndart

Thank You. That was a long time ago and I try to remember the good times.

lawndart,

Our paths may have crossed on Ardennes Street.

1/505 81-85 and 1/325 90-94.

JD

1/504 74-77.
I did waltz in and out of there with the old 12th SFG 77-80.
Also did some Close Air Support training on occasion 83-94.
The only time I ever really hated life was up at Ft Greely for Jack Frost in February 76. We had a Samoan SFC who had never seen snow before in his life. All he said for three weeks was, "f*****g b******t", over and over. He took out his unhappiness on everybody during the broom hockey game the day before we left.

1/325; Div Arty?
1/505 was a good outfit when I was there.

LD

1/325 Airborne Infantry Regiment

Hmmmm,
Obviously we share the knowledge that being a line doggie is a much more noble calling than jerking off a howitzer. It does still stick in my craw that indirect fire kills way more bad guys than us good looking guys with rifles and steely eyes ever have. maybe it was the 3/325 I was thinking about. Those guys were always pretty shiftless. Damn, now I have to go to that lame Fort Bragg website and check out the TO&E of the 82nd.
I do apologize for accusing you of being a cannon cocker. That is inexcusable.
As penance I'll make fun of ten leg officers when I go do my tour in the ashtray.
If it helps redeem me in your eyes; I did yell, "hot chow, and our ride home is here!" during the final portion of an ARTEP that involved live fire. Two medics and an Air Force liason guy were sleeping in a ditch. They jumped up just in time for the back blast from a 106mm recoiless rifle to roll them down the back of the hill.

LD

And, the beer is on me if our paths ever cross.

quote:

Originally posted by fusino:

quote:

Fusino,
Texas Tech is going to put whoopin' on your Longhorns tomorrow.

Go Red Raiders!!!!!!!!!

Did you watch the game Vinny?!

Talk about eating humble pie - serve me up a big piece. Your 'horns thumped us bad. A better team by all accounts. Now - go beat those darn prune pickers from California in the Rose Bowl. I will be hookin' it for you.

Humble pie for me - you guys had the better team.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:
Sorry guys....unions level the playing field between companies and workers. Without that, there is no "democracy" to speak of...it's the wolves and sheep voting on what's for dinner. If some idiot is willing to cross a picket line, he's a traitor and deserves what he gets.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

Nope. Unions have two reasons for existence.

1) Provide power and wealth to the union leadership.

2) Provide an above market wage rate for the union membership.

Why should consumers subsidize union wages? Ridiculous.



Scott

TaxPhd - you are dead on with your eloquent assessment.

quote:

Originally posted by TaxPhd:

2) Provide an above market wage rate for the union membership.

Scott

Scott,

I assume you are an accountant? That figures...a group of people whose sole purpose is to ensure a redistribution of wealth away from people who cannot afford thier services!
Seriously, you might do some reading about "Efficiency Wage Theory" to explore why an "above market" wage is actually necessary. Confined to the realm of abstraction within which you have chosen to argue, all workers earning a "market wage" yields no output.

Best,

John

'Above market" wage, there's a bunch of liberal horse-shit gobbledigook for you. The UAW makes GM pay their entry level janitors 36K a year. Explain that one to me. And they wonder why GM's going broke. At the end of WWII, US steel production was about 80% of global out put. Steelworkers Union's staged over TWO HUNDRED strikes and work stoppages during the 1950s & 60s. Our steel industry is now dead. Income redistribution? anotehr word for communisnm, liberal democrat. All the same crowd hell bent on turning this country into anotehr socialist state. jorge

Jorge,
YOu got your blood pressure up on that one. However, I agree with you.

I run my own company with union employees...guess what??? I'm pro union...everything runs smootly without them it is always some ass kisser trying to get one boot up causing nothing but bitterness among the ranks.

Jorge, Very well said. There was a time in the US when unions were needed, but they have become so bloated and lost sight of what their mission should be. Unions are nothing but a form of organized crime now.

Jorge,

Please try to maybe read the above posts before getting your flight suit in a wad! It was an advocate of YOUR position that chose the term "above market wage" not me...I was merely pointing out the necessity of it accepting HIS terms. Further, since when is income redistribution a "commie" idea? Redistributed wealth can obviously travel in BOTH directions and this is was pointing out with my jab at accountants. I have to give you credit though...you are a champ at simply spewing ad hominem right wing terminology in spite of the fact that you have no idea what you are saying. Please take your blood pressure meds, have a nice cigar and maybe a shot of single malt. I'll join you in spirit by smoking some of Dunhill's finest blend.

Best Regards,

John

P.S.
Read some Schumpeter to understand why the US steel industry is dead. It has nothing to do with organized labor and everything to do with the nature of technology.

JTG: Yeah, just like the tax break refunds we had to give people that didn't even pay taxes. I am fully aware of the other salient issues with US steel, but labor was a huge issue as it is today with the automakers. Look, there's a reason as to why Unions are on their way out. Wake up and smell the vodka, unions belong to the same genre as the Soviet Union. Single malt and Dunhills? how decadent. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:

quote:

Originally posted by TaxPhd:

2) Provide an above market wage rate for the union membership.

Scott

Scott,

I assume you are an accountant? That figures...a group of people whose sole purpose is to ensure a redistribution of wealth away from people who cannot afford thier services!

The only "redistribution" I would advocate is that in which the government takes no part.


Now, why don't you help us all understand why consumers of US automobiles should pay a price that contains a janator's salary of $36,000, when the market dictates that the janators salary should be in the area of $21,000?

I would love to be paid more than what the market has determined I should be paid. Since you seem to believe in the concept, why not send me the extra?

I can't resist this, Lord help me.

Unions are vitally necessary to protect the least productive members of the workforce.

They do this by setting the MINIMUM standards for all work done and then makes sure that no one exceeds that.

This way the least productive worker is paid the same and has the same security as the best people in the company.

quote:

Originally posted by TaxPhd:

Now, why don't you help us all understand why consumers of US automobiles should pay a price that contains a janator's salary of $36,000, when the market dictates that the janators salary should be in the area of $21,000?

I would love to be paid more than what the market has determined I should be paid.

You ARE, assuming you're a rational agent, otherwise you wouldn't be working. Do your own homework TaxPhd...it's called "efficiency wage theory".

Best,

John

quote:

Talk about eating humble pie - serve me up a big piece. Your 'horns thumped us bad. A better team by all accounts. Now - go beat those darn prune pickers from California in the Rose Bowl. I will be hookin' it for you.

I can't wait! I really think we have a good chance of beating them.

quote:

efficiency wage theory

OK. You've piqued my curiosity. I've done my homework, I know what the efficiency wage theory is. But I don't understand the following:

"You ARE, assuming you're a rational economic agent, otherwise you wouldn't be working."

I am being paid more than I'm worth? Come on.

Assume that the value of my output is $100,000. Would an employer pay me $100,000? Of course not. They need to pay me less. Certainly not more, as they won't make any money.

Part of the problem when accountants and economists get together is economists try to explain the way things should be, accountants explain the way things are. Hence the problem with the efficiency wage theory. Interesting idea, but it is already impounded into the determination of a market price for labor. Unions cause a distortion in that market, resulting in consumers paying higher prices.



Scott

quote:

Originally posted by TaxPhd:

"You ARE, assuming you're a rational economic agent, otherwise you wouldn't be working."
I am being paid more than I'm worth? Come on.
Assume that the value of my output is $100,000. Would an employer pay me $100,000? Of course not. They need to pay me less. Certainly not more, as they won't make any money. Part of the problem when accountants and economists get together is economists try to explain the way things should be, accountants explain the way things are.

Seems you are talking across your original purpose. You ARE being paid more than your market determined wage or there would be no reason to produce.

Just out of curiosty...do you teach accounting or are you gainfully employed? I ask this with tongue in cheek as I am in academia at the moment.

Best Regards,

John

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:



I am in academia at the moment.



John

That explains alot!!

Those who can do, those who can't teach

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:Just out of curiosty...do you teach accounting or are you gainfully employed? I ask this with tongue in cheek as I am in academia at the moment.

Best Regards,

John

I am in academia. I spent three years as a tax consultant with Coopers & Lybrand before I was lured away. It sure beats working for a living.

With everything you've posted, i am going to have to start studying again. Aargghhh!!!

I'd be interested in hearing what you are doing in Egypt. PM me?

Saeed and Don:

Please remove this thread from "AFRICAN BIG GAME HUNTING" and place in the Political forum.

It has lost its way and intent.

Thanks,

RCG

quote:

Originally posted by RCG:
Saeed and Don:

Please remove this thread from "AFRICAN BIG GAME HUNTING" and place in the Political forum.

It has lost its way and intent.

Thanks,

RCG

If you don't approve, don't read it. Is your life so structured you can't make a decision?

Mickey1:

What does this have to do with "African Big Game Hunting"?

It originally started out related to it but quickly veered way off topic. I am not saying delete it, just move it to where it probably should be now.

And yes, I can make a decision. I thought I was to read a thread about an ill fated safari. I guess I am not as omniscient as you, otherwise I should or would have known that the thread would soon be about the labor movement.

Silly me.

RCG

quote:

Originally posted by RCG:
Saeed and Don:

Please remove this thread from "AFRICAN BIG GAME HUNTING" and place in the Political forum.

Amem! Maybe Don is on strike or determined that moving meandering threads wasn't specified in his contract.

Bob

Still another reason never to join a Union!

quote:

Originally posted by Tembo:

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:

I am in academia at the moment.

John

That explains alot!!

Well, so is your conservative brother in this case so maybe you can tell me exactly how being an academic explains anything except for the fact that we can have an intelligent conversation about the topic without resorting to the petty ad hominem AR bullshit.

Best,

John

What happened to the US Steel industry is being paralled today by the US auto industry...

...A failure to innovate combined with too much profit taking, period! These fundamentals in business when ignored for too long will combine, synergize and bring down any operation no matter good it is presently / past. Unions / no unions!

Jeff

GM has a 25 BILLION, BILLION annual healthcare and pension nut to crack. They have the latest innovations in auto-building technology and their quality control has come a long way just like the other US automakers. Look at their employee costs. It's simple, an uneducated semi-skilled auto worker shold not be making as much if not more than an entry level MD. jorge

quote:

Well, so is your conservative brother in this case so maybe you can tell me exactly how being an academic explains anything except for the fact that we can have an intelligent conversation about the topic without resorting to the petty ad hominem AR bullshit.

Best,

John

JTG, if you want to un-invite the petty AR insults, un-write your petty, insulting signature.