Please Explain To Me..............

15 May 2018, 10:48

I see quite a number of outfitters advertising hunts for "free range" animals.

I am not sure what this actually means as they are on a fenced farm??

Are we getting to the same advertising lies as in selling chickens now.

Another thing I cannot understand is the term "harvest" when it comes to hunting!

How the hell does one "harvest" an animal while shooting it?

To my way of thinking, one harvest potatoes and onions.

Or may be those advertising such are using the same terminology because the animals they are selling are more or less just stuck to the same piece of ground

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15 May 2018, 12:27

cal pappas

My opinion is it up to an individual's perception as to free range. Some may think free range is zero fences, others may believe a set acreage behind a fence is free range (such as 10,000 acres or larger). Others may separate animals for their opinion (free range kudu on 5000 acres is OK, but the same land for a lion is not acceptable).

As to the word harvest, I'm neutral on that one but do believe it is used to as a more acceptable term than kill or shoot.

Cal

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15 May 2018, 12:46

MD375

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
I see quite a number of outfitters advertising hunts for "free range" animals.

I am not sure what this actually means as they are on a fenced farm??

Where I hunt, I consider it free range.

It is surrounded by a very low fence and no animals have been introduced.

Animals move around between farms as they wish.

I hunted kudu this weekend, after following the tracks for about 4 hours, we had to abandon as they crossed into the neigbouring farm.

15 May 2018, 15:55

Cumbrian

I also find the use of the tem strange, low fence i.e. stock/cattle fence does not impede the free movement of game but a high fence does. A high fenced property does not mean that fair chase hunting cannot take place i.e. the animal is free to escape, is not disadvantaged and has enough habitat to feed and breed so the game is not being topped up.

Some high fence properties are so large that you will not see the fence or a noticeable difference in the quarry that you are hunting but they are not truly free range IMHO not sure on the term "harvest" either it doesn't sound quite right to me.

15 May 2018, 16:18

Opus1

1. Nothing that lives behind a high fence intended to corral wildlife is "free range".

2. Some use "fair chase" as a euphemism to soften the use of high fence but it's only a euphemism as wildlife remains corralled.

3. A three wire or five wire cattle fence is not considered a high fence. While it corrales livestock (cows are poor jumpers) wildlife on the other hand can easily navigate over, under, through cattle fences and are thus not corralled and are able to range freely.

4. The whole harvest thingy is just as silly as the murder thingy.

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15 May 2018, 17:04

ijl

Now is the time of the buzzword, moreso than ever before.

In South Africa, everything (including the Kruger) is fenced. The Portugese arrived in 1487, five years before Columbus became the last in a long line of folks to "discover" America. 160 years later the Dutch arrived for good. So everything is fenced and the "domestication" goes beyond that, to vegetation, insects, lots of things. I was involved peripherally in the early days of the Pilanesberg (60,000ha and also fenced) and the park staff battled to eradicate "civilisation".

The fence itself is of no consequence. It is how the hunt is conducted within that matters, and if it's fair chase it's fair chase, QED.

As far as harvesting goes, yeah, I suppose it sounds a little more PC, but the people who harvest sound like the ones that would "present" their firearm in a confrontation

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15 May 2018, 18:30

Crazyhorseconsulting

I am just talking about Texas here, but under "Normal" conditions any fence 72 inches/6 feet tall or less is rarely going to keep white tails and elk from going where they please, that includes chain link and sheep/goat fencing.

With 5 or 6 wire barb wire fencing with normal spacing whitetails, even bucks will crawl under about as often as they jump over.

To me it seems to be more of the thoughts/beliefs of the individual hunter as to what is Free Range and what isn't.

As for the term harvest, it is a PC attempt to make the "Blod Spoprts", hunting and fishing more palatable to the masses.

There are still people in this area that if a person says something about having been hunting, they will ask, Did You CATCH Anything or What Did You CATCH.

I have been hearing that for the 50+ years I have been hunting here in north Texas.

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15 May 2018, 18:47

L. David Keith

If an animal can escape the hunting area by simply jumping a low fence, I consider that free range. If the animal is not restricted by any barrier (fence, natural barrier etc) I would consider that fair chase. I've hunted high fence properties that were 20,000 to 50,000 acres and many times unsuccessful as the quarry evaded me. I still call that high fence. In Africa, I have hunted large conservancies (joint ranches that comprise of over 130,000 acres) that had no fences or low fence that wasn't maintained and surrounding ranches were low fence, that I consider free range, but could be thought of as fair chase. Any restriction to movement of an animal wouldn't be considered fair chase or "free range" by Boone and Crockett IMHO. LDK

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15 May 2018, 19:50

AnotherAZWriter

quote:
Originally posted by Cumbrian:
I also find the use of the tem strange, low fence i.e. stock/cattle fence does not impede the free movement of game but a high fence does. A high fenced property does not mean that fair chase hunting cannot take place i.e. the animal is free to escape, is not disadvantaged and has enough habitat to feed and breed so the game is not being topped up.

Some high fence properties are so large that you will not see the fence or a noticeable difference in the quarry that you are hunting but they are not truly free range IMHO not sure on the term "harvest" either it doesn't sound quite right to me.

But here is the difference: when drought hits, can the animal move to better forage? No. Sure, you might never see the fence, but you can bet the animals contained within it do.

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15 May 2018, 20:46

MARK H. YOUNG

Guys,

Free range to me means no "game" fencing. Fair Chase in my mind means that the game pursued can allude the hunters simply by fleeing the hunting area or outsmarting them which can be achieved even on a few thousand acres given the proper habitat. I'm not talking about put and take over stocked properties with loads of non indigenous game which is a whole other subject. I'm talking about game fenced properties that hold the native species of the area in normal densities.

The term harvest may be PC but on the other hand if the game farmed or not is cared for and managed properly are you not harvesting an animals when you kill it?

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15 May 2018, 20:48

Cumbrian

quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
quote:
Originally posted by Cumbrian:
I also find the use of the tem strange, low fence i.e. stock/cattle fence does not impede the free movement of game but a high fence does. A high fenced property does not mean that fair chase hunting cannot take place i.e. the animal is free to escape, is not disadvantaged and has enough habitat to feed and breed so the game is not being topped up.

Some high fence properties are so large that you will not see the fence or a noticeable difference in the quarry that you are hunting but they are not truly free range IMHO not sure on the term "harvest" either it doesn't sound quite right to me.

But here is the difference: when drought hits, can the animal move to better forage? No. Sure, you might never see the fence, but you can bet the animals contained within it do.

I agree that is why I don't think high fence hunting is free range as the animals cannot migrate freely when conditions change for the worse, the water holes are mostly artificial for that reason and extra fodder has to be supplied in some years. However I think there is a big difference between those fenced reserves where the animals breed freely and have little human contact to those where the animals are released just before the hunt.

15 May 2018, 20:52

Opus1

Mark I noted that you made a distinction of 'native species". Does that include species such as Gemsbuck on KZN hunting farms? Or did you mean native to the continent of Africa?

And what is "normal densities" as many of the current hunting farms haven't had wildlife on them for decades until the high fences when up and wildlife was purchased?

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15 May 2018, 20:55

JGRaider

quote:
Originally posted by Opus1:
1. Nothing that lives behind a high fence intended to corral wildlife is "free range".

2. Some use "fair chase" as a euphemism to soften the use of high fence but it's only a euphemism as wildlife remains corralled.

3. A three wire or five wire cattle fence is not considered a high fence. While it corrales livestock (cows are poor jumpers) wildlife on the other hand can easily navigate over, under, through cattle fences and are thus not corralled and are able to range freely.

4. The whole harvest thingy is just as silly as the murder thingy.

Couldn't agree more.

15 May 2018, 22:18

MARK H. YOUNG

Opus1,

Exactly! Gemsbok, springbok and other arid country animals in my mind don't belong in the Limpopo and they don't do that well there. I don't have a big issue with fenced hunting but a property stocked to the extent that it is a African zoo are not for me nor do I recommend them to my clients. It's not an authentic experience but a chance to collect a cornucopia of species in one area.

Mark

15 May 2018, 22:55

Opus1

quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Opus1,

Exactly! Gemsbok, springbok and other arid country animals in my mind don't belong in the Limpopo and they don't do that well there. I don't have a big issue with fenced hunting but a property stocked to the extent that it is a African zoo are not for me nor do I recommend them to my clients. It's not an authentic experience but a chance to collect a cornucopia of species in one area.

Mark

Thanks. I was hoping that was the case. Unfortunately many who travel to hunting farms don't understand just how artificial the hunting environment is. And that's OK. I just have an issue with folks marketing hunting farms as "natural, free range hunting". It is anything but.

Same goes with SA lion. It's a pen raised animal. Why market it as anything other than captive bred shooting? And again, I am OK with that as long as the client knows exactly what is happening and what he is doing.

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15 May 2018, 23:40

MARK H. YOUNG

Opus1,

I find a good part of and particularly novice hunters are pretty clueless about what animals naturally occur where in Africa. That's not a criticism but just a fact. I often get a request for a greater kudu, bushbuck, gemsbok, red hartebeest and springbok on a plains game hunt. I explain that they don't naturally all occur together but the hunters get confused as they see them on the trophy fee lists and the outfitter tells them they can all be hunted from his lodge. This is in no way a lie and some clients are going to be fine with that. It's just not for me as it's not an authentic experience in my opinion.

Mark

16 May 2018, 04:01

AB109

I understand Free Range is where the animals occur naturally/native and are not contained. If a low fence does not contain the animal within a certain area then its free range. Simple.
There is a lot of misleading info out especially from SA calling “free range” if it’s in a big pen, - a pen is still a pen. Also they make first time hunters believe that all these animals live naturally in this area. I agree with Mark on having Kalahari species in the Limpopo etc.
A better terminology is needed to differentiate all these terms. - What is “Fair Chase” for example? Is it different to “free range”? It is often used for pen hunting. But what does this really mean?
And yes the word “Harvesting” an animal is very irritating. I would like to call it hunted or shot.

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17 May 2018, 09:17

georgeld

Same things bug me too.
Harvest, Took, take all sound damned stupid to me.

Anyone that thinks a cow can't jump a fence has been in the city too damned long too!

I've watched white faced bulls so fat they can barely waddle jump 6' fences. Sometimes higher ones too.

Then there was the bunch of Sacred cows we raised! Brahma's, fence's were something to hop over to keep the cowboys on the other side.

Randall, where are you on this game? Bet those buff can jump too. I've never been around 'em much so don't know but, I'd bet they could if they want, or just bust thru it.

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17 May 2018, 14:14

Bakes

quote:
Originally posted by Wink:
The "harvest" term seems to be a USA thing. I see shooting or killing or hunting or taking an animal when the act is described in other countries.

Harvest is a term which I find intentionally misleading, meaning I don't like it and don't use it. Maybe we should be harvesting fish too?

No its sneaking into some Aussie hunting mags. Its just PC bullshit.