The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting My DGX Field ExperienceGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| My DGX Field Experience | Login/Join |
one of us |
bwana, so broke both shoulders and stayed together for you - correct? Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
|
| One of Us |
One of the people involved in the testing of the Hornadys back in 2007 advised me against ever using them. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I am first to admit that I get confused easily but this is what I got from the report. I have a bullet that shoots well in my 450/400 double rifle. I don't have to worry about the bullet damaging my gun. The ammunition doesn't cost me a days wages every time I pull the trigger so I can practice and become very effective with the rifle. The rifle being a wonderful, easy to shoot and very efficient choice for buffalo doesn't kick the snot out of me either, so I do a great job of shooting a quartering buffalo. Now bear in mind that on the scale of resistant to penetration,difficulty to put down etc the Cape buffalo is legendary. My buffalo runs a little way and falls down DEAD. On postmortem I find that my expanding bullet goes through hide muscle and bone, goes all the way across the chest and wrecks the hell out of every thing between resulting in a quick merciful death of my trophy animal. The bullet is found in two separate pieces probably very close to each other in the "chest meat".... Again I'm just a simple hunter so maybe I don't understand what is happening here but I can't figure out at what specific point from the time the trigger was pulled to the point of hand shaking and joy of a successful hunt that this bullet failed. Just a thought from Jeff Cooper. ● Years ago we coined the appellation, “Preoccupation with Inconsequential Increments,” or PII. This peculiarity lies in attributing importance to measurable deviations so small as to be meaningless. You see it in the people who shoot test groups in rifles, awarding a prize to a group which is only thousandths of an inch smaller than those unrewarded. One sees it in speed records awarded in one-thousandths of one mile-per-hour. One sees it in basketball scores which, nearing the century mark, are separated by less than three points. In all such cases Score A is “better” than Score B, but who cares? An increment may be termed inconsequential when it has no significant relationship to the purpose of the exercise. Of course if the purpose of the exercise is in itself inconsequential some may not think this to be foolish. A very distinguished general at Quantico once caused the sign to be placed over the exit door of every office asking, in brilliant scarlet and gold, “What are you trying to do?” There was a man who knew more about human nature than most. If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
|
one of us |
 That about covers it all, I'd say! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Eleven days ago,I was in the Save about this time of day in pursuit of 4 Dugga boys... My .404 was loaded with Factory DGX up and 3 DGS solids in the magazine below.... Got all we were going to get out of the stalk..... No more cover and no chance of getting closer... Glenn Stockil gave me the go sign and I took a LONG ( for me anyway iron sights) shot at the solitary boy away from the group. Quartering away slightly, DGX entered behind rib,angled across chest cavity getting lungs and top of heart. Bull hunched up ,whirled and ran to catch his buds. He was blowing foam/froth in the first couple of strides. I put a DGS solid through both hips and slowed him more. He ran 80 yards or so and stopped in a thicket with his pals,we could see him down surrounded by his Guard. Glenn smoked a cigarett and the death moan came while we waited. Bullet crossed the chest cavity broke opposite shoulder and came to rest in the meat of same shoulder. Recovered in one piece @ 2X expansion and weighed 340 gr. or 85% weight retention. I have the bullet here,maybe get a pic of it on here later. Just one buff,and the only one I have shot with The Hornady Soft. I have shot others with Swift A-Frame in 416, Woodleigh WeldCores in 416 and Solids as well. All did about the same job on the buffalo. I am concerned to find a lack of satisfaction with the Hornady soft among this knowledgeable group of sports and Professional Hunters. | |||
|
| one of us |
els, I worded the OP carefully - so folks would not get confused. I did not state that the bullet failed. "...the DGX came apart and did not penetrate as well as expected. I hit the buff with the first shot (the second shot was a miss). The bullet certainly killed efficiently, but would it the next time?" It did not fail...to kill. It did fail to stay together; it did fail to penetrate the off-ribs; and it did fail to meet my expectations. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
|
| One of Us |
I'm another who would disagree.. I've shot buff at even less than 25yds.. Swift A-Frame 458Lott, even one time through both front shoulders to recover a picture perfect mushroom that could be used for a commercial just under the hide on the off side.. MopaneMike | |||
|
one of us |
Ndiyo... BTW... well written and on point Ernie, we sometimes seine for gnats here! On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
|
| one of us |
Thanks, bwanamrm. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
|
| one of us |
"Some expanding bullets do better than others, but none of them do well when fired into a Buff's shoulder at short range -- that's what solids are for." I also disagree with this comment. In May I shot a bull at 65 yards, at the spine/shoulder junction, with a 300 grain North Fork soft point (not the cup point). It immediately fell down and gave the death bellow. The bullet weighed 291 grains when recovered. I would not use Hornady softs. In Africa I heard of cases where PHs were given free DGX ammo and used their own money to buy different ammo. Indy Life is short. Hunt hard. | |||
|
One of Us |
Antlers, in my first post on this thread, I agreed with you that the DGX has some issues. My second post was in response to something OHH said and believe me, I had no idea of the bias against TSX bullets in doubles on this forum. Later I referenced Michael458's work on this subject since he appears to be well respected on this forum and I usually try to back up my statements with factual data if available. For some reason, it seems that your responses to my posts have just a touch of hostility in them as you "won't debate TSX bullets in double rifles" with me. That's OK. I just thought you wanted to hear what others have been using since you started the thread and posted the bullet you were not happy with. So like I said to OHH and Mac, I respectfully disagree with you as well and apologize if my opinion offended you. I'll refrain from adding to conversations that you start in the future! I wish you great success in finding a bullet of your liking! | |||
|
| one of us |
Todd, no hostility at all and I apologize if it came across that way. I just know that the topic has been beat to death and that was not my intention in posting on this subject. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
|
| One of Us |
OK, that makes sense then. I've only been participating here for about 3.5 months so I must have missed those discussions. By the way, CM is a great outfit to hunt with aren't they? Cheers, Todd | |||
|
| one of us |
CM was a terrific team to hunt with and I will not hesitate to recommend them.  Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
|
One of Us |
The buff of mine was shot behind the left shoulder. | |||
|
One of Us |
I must say this statement is one I have tended to agree with, certainly with experience on big Aussie buffalo I did not feel handicapped in using solids. Kynochs were the only soft nose I had for my .404 and although I think i did use one or two on buff, most were all with solids. I think I'm in reasonable company in taking this view as Harry Selby found the same and in fact did not seem to mind using solids on everything as he is quoted below; "In time I abandoned carrying soft nose bullets for the .416, for the ones available from Kynoch tended to break up. The only possible use for a soft-nose bullet would be lion, and I found that the .416 rolled lions over with a solid pretty well anyway." Whether he ever went back to soft nose with the advent of better ones who knows, but for me, a naturally shoulder (through not behind) or brisket busting shooter, solids are fine. | |||
|
| one of us |
I also shot a buff using the 500gr a-frame, through the chest slightly to the side that was recovered just under the skin on the opposite shoulder.The bullet was fired from about 90 yds through branches and bush,and had opened slightly before hitting the buff.I did not get a perfect mushroom because of this but it opened about halfway to the cannelure.The bullet missed the vitals but busted the buffs shoulder such that he was immobilized.The second shot was a frontal brain shot,from about 25yds, and the bullet that was recovered from the brain was stressed beyond a mushroom.I also used the 500gr A-frame on the shoulder of an impala from about 100yds.It killed it instantly leaving a large exit hole.The 500gr A-frame has to be my most trusted bullet,along with the 550 gr woodleigh.I wish to use either on buff and lion this coming august. | |||
|
| one of us |
Hold up Todd,I can only speak for myself, but I'm, in no way offended, by anything you posted on this website, and I have nothing but respect for you and your opinions! I, Sir, would never assume to tell you or anyone else here what to use in your double rifle, or what to believe about anything. All I do here is offer what I would do, and my opinion of what ever is posted here, nothing more! It is unfortunate that I seem to have a very direct way of writing that is often taken as confrontational, when it is certainly not meant to be!  ………………………………………………………….  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
No problem Mac. I didn't take it that way. I thought maybe Antlers was offended but we're cool! It's all good! I think I've said it before but I think it is worth repeating; I value this forum and a few others for the possibility of learning something new from others opinions. I always welcome a different viewpoint but sometimes see guys take offense with each other. I just wanted to make sure I didn't start anything of that nature! | |||
|
One of Us |
[/QUOTE] "I must say this statement is one I have tended to agree with, certainly with experience on big Aussie buffalo I did not feel handicapped in using solids. Kynochs were the only soft nose I had for my .404 and although I think i did use one or two on buff, most were all with solids. I think I'm in reasonable company in taking this view as Harry Selby found the same and in fact did not seem to mind using solids on everything as he is quoted below; "In time I abandoned carrying soft nose bullets for the .416, for the ones available from Kynoch tended to break up. The only possible use for a soft-nose bullet would be lion, and I found that the .416 rolled lions over with a solid pretty well anyway." Whether he ever went back to soft nose with the advent of better ones who knows, but for me, a naturally shoulder (through not behind) or brisket busting shooter, solids are fine.[/QUOTE] Buffalo are not thick skinned game by a long shot. As to Selby's comments, that is a reflection and a consequence of using inferior bullets like the old Kynochs. They were so bad at the time they even made old Winchester Silvertips looks good. That is the reason folks used solids for buffalo back then, the softs were garbage. With today's Super Premiums, solids are just not needed except for elephant, rhino and land hunted hippos. USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
|
| one of us |
+1 with Jorge on this one! With today's premium soft points especially from .400 cal up There is only one need for solids on Buffalo, and that is to reach the vitals from a going away shot! In a bolt rifle I load a quality controlled expanding soft in the chamber for the first shot to do the most tissue damaged to the vitals, followed by all solids in the magazine! The exception to that rule with me is if I'm using NORTH FORK CPS (CUP POINT SOLIDS) then there is no need for anything else! With a double rifle on Buffalo I load a quality soft in the right barrel for the first shot, and a solid in the left barrel followed bay all solids, again unless using North Fork CPS then both barrel will be loaded with CPS. Jorge is right about Selby's comments on soft points being a true statement at that time, but simply doesn't hold water today! IMO the NF CPS settles the debate on this subject, the only place the exclusive use of solids today is the three conditions on the animals listed by Jorge and for hunting elephant! Still solids have some value even on buffalo for the going away shots to reach the vitals from behind to avoid escape! ……………………………………………………………  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
Howdy Mac, regarding solids on buffalo for "going way shots", I used to think that way as well until I saw a post by Saeed relating how one of his "walterhog" bullets (similar to a TSX) penetrated a buffalo all the way to the chest cavity after he shot him just next to the Obama-hole  Virtually every PH I've spoken to, particularly those fifty and under, almost never recommend solids anymore except for the instances I've related. Cheers, jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have a photo of the DGX I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread... .404 Caliber (.423) recovered from a Buffalo I shot last month. Took out lungs and top of heart coming to rest in the opposite shoulder in the condition seen... Weighed 340 gr. or 85% weight retention. Solid is a DGS also recovered from a buffalo. Like I said, it is my only DG use of a DGX factory round,certainly not conclusive by any means... I am concerned by others' disatisfaction with the bullets,especially considering the knowledge of some of the posters in particular (B.Charlton) Hornady bringing out Factory Ammo for the .404 Jeffrey is what made me go back to my old rifle. That said, I would want to feel I was using cartridges with components adequate to give optimum results when I do my part,which in this case both the bullet and I did on this particular buffalo. Very interesting thread, I am eager to hear more from those with actual field experience with the DGX/DGS ammo.   | |||
|
| One of Us |
tetonka, I tried for months to get the looong promised Northfork .410 400gr softs - in fact Northfork finally stopped replying to my email requests. I just went to their website and they aren't available there. Antlers, I am sorry if we dropped the ball. I will extend the 10% off for you that ended on the Oct. 2nd if you would like to order. The .410-400SS are on the website and have been for at least 5 months now. We have all .410 bullet styles in stock. I just checked the website, and it shows them there and available (we have had some website issues as of late). Regards, John North Fork Technologies | |||
|
| one of us |
Jorge I think we a re misunderstanding each other here! The TSX “IS “ a SOLID but an expanding solid! What I refer to is, when I say soft point, is the old standard lead core soft point or a lead core partition. The ones made today are fine compared to the old one from Selby's day. All total MONO-METAL bullets regardless of if they are designed to maintain their shape after contact with the target, or expand because of Cup-point solid, or a hollow/spilt nose solid, are still solids. The Walter Hog bullet is a hollow-point solid! Saeed shoots nothing but solid mono-metal bullets! With a hollow point expanding solid,(No Core, and is mono-metal) there is not need for a SOFT (which is a jacketed bullet with a with one or two soft metal cores)! What I meant is when using a soft I was referring to a jacketed core but one of the controlled expansion bullets, or a CUP point solid for the first shot, and followed by a solid like the FPS (flat point solid) that are designed to not expand but penetrate as deep as it can holding it’s original shape, and weight! It all boils down to the fact that all MONO-Metal bullets are solids, just some are designed to expand and do more tissue damage, while others designed to hold their shape and penetrate more. Then there is the feature that makes all of the solids safe in double rifles, and that feature is the very thing pressure rings cut to groove diameter, with the space between the rings lower than bore diameter to give the displaced metal from the rifling engraving a place to go thus creating far less strain on the barrel steel! In the final analysis both the Mono-metal expanders and the controlled expansion jacket and core or partition jacket with two soft cores are fine bullets today, and used in conjunction with a flat meplat solid mono-metal, or cored are fine today, and the sensible use of any of them or combination of the two types is useful. ....................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
Found Trophy Bonded Bear Claws and Swift A-Frames did in 4 buff I hunted in .375 I have 98% retention on two projectiles and about 60% of an A-Frame that went through a buff's nostril and into his brain. Will stick with those in the bolt guns and Woodleighs in my doubles. Whatever works and instills confidence is really the answer. Dutch | |||
|
| One of Us |
Roger Mac understood! USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
|
| One of Us |
I guess I started this by quoting from Selby and I'm not in disagreement with everyone's answers to this in regards quality softs but at the same time as Harry found, I also found in my limited experience(quite a few buffs), and others posting here have found, that solids do work and even the most ardent supporter of softs still admits that when facing a rear shot, or one where you want to bust both big shoulders, or one where you want to plant high centre brisket and go on down to the spine and the strong hip bones, or one where facing a close charge and need to knock out the spine or take out a shoulder, a solid is better insurance. Sure we can debate over what constitutes a soft or a solid these days, but the original cup and core solid has done the trick for years with some of the finest hunters we have ever known and still continues to do the trick. For me I go back to the time I did hunt and shoot buffalo without a PH backing up and I never considered that the .404 would not do the job with cup and core solids. Everything hit fell over. I don't think I could stand going to Africa and worrying about whether my Mauser and it's bullet would do the job every time I pulled down on an animal. I'm going to be concerned about stepping on a damn snake more than whether my bullets perform. Perhaps in my case I should load a shot cartridge first up followed by solids. I must experiment!!!  | |||
|
One of Us |
I was thinking the same thing. The only time a SP fails is if it doesn't expand or doesn't enter. Everything else is a lottery. Live game is not a repeatable medium. Still, if Mr B.Charlton Esq. recommends Woodleighs here and on his videos, they must be good. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I think if you spend some time talking in private with several PHs, you'll find this has happened more times than you think. I understand their not wanting to speak out publicly about it. I'm not going to name names as they can take up the subject if they so desire. In fact, there is a popular DG video out that is the second in it's series, showing a buff shot with one of these that actually tosses the PH during the follow up. The PH almost gets shot in the back by the client as the buff charges out of the thick stuff as well. The story I got was that the bullet broke up and failed to penetrate properly but that is really third hand info so don't take my word for it. If you get a chance, spend some time with a few PHs in private and see what they have to say about the DGX's performance compared to other premium bullets. Several examples of satisfactory performance with this bullet have been related in this thread. More troubling is the examples of failure or poor performance. For me the issue is consistency. I don't want to go picking a fight with Mr. Nasty in the thick stuff with a bullet that will "probably" work when there are bullets out there that will "definitely" work. | |||
|
one of us |
that's all there is to it and solids (FN especially) do it best | |||
|
| one of us |
That is a very good philosophy in my opinion! The same goes for a proper rifle type that works every time, made as simple and as fool proof as a rifle can be made with as few things to break, or malfunction as is possible, combined with a load and bullet that works every time, and the rest is left up to you to use that combination to it’s best advantage! When all those things are a team you can think about hanging the trophy on the wall, rather than planning yours, or some one in your party’s funeral! ...............................................  ...............................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| one of us |
This from Ian nyschens,on stopping a head on charge by a buff."I had actually learned how to immobilze oncoming buffalo.Pleased with my shooting of the .404 rifle,I wondered how it could have been more effective than the .450 double barrel,so I opened both buffalo skulls.I was intrigued to discover that the softnose bullets had expanded between the horns and disintegrated on impact to spread some of the shrapnel into the brain." | |||
|
| one of us |
While no doubt that premium softs - down the nose in to the brain would perform great, it is the following shot that bothers me - not intentional but may happen sooner or later (see BEGNO's report):   Best solid might punch through and with a bit of luck break neck. Soft? No way - IMO. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I think sometimes we get a bit confused with all the abbreviations, DGS<DGX<TSX etc. I also get tired of all the commercials on Tv about products and will listen with much more attention to what the shooters on AR here say about the loads and bullets, etc than what I hear from the couch on Sunday afternoon. I am certainly no expert but I would have no reservations from taking a Hornady TSX 400 gn 416 rigby to the field with me for buffalo,, I have had good results with them in the past. The monolithic metal on all my recovered bullets expanded as designed and retained their weight,, probably shot almost 80 rounds at DG with them without a gripe,, but I will listen with great interest on what you shooters say about the DGX but of greater interest will be the DGS on game such as elephant,, failure can be deadly. I will continue to listen and learn from the posters here. you can make more money, you can not make more time | |||
|
| one of us |
North Fork, this was my mistake. When I went to your website earlier, I was confused by the depiction of the FPS over all of the available .410 bullets. My apologies. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
|
| One of Us |
drwes???? I'm lost, In the second line of your post above you discuss using a quote "Hornady TSX " The thread is about the Hornady Soft and Solid DGX/DGS respectively. Your mention of the "TSX" which is Triple Shock "X" which is, I thought, a Barnes product,and has never to my knowledge been loaded by Hornady? Did I miss something? Does Hornady have another DG type bullet? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Nope. TSX is Barnes. DGX/DGS is Hornady. | |||
|
| One of Us |
In the last month I took two big Australian water buff and a 9ft brown bear with a 300 grain DGX in .375. Perfect penetration, 3 dead ( very dead, very fast ) animals. I have shot the hell out of the DGX and have never found them anything but effective. And yes, Hornady is a sponsor, but that is why I get to personally see DOZENS of dangerous game animals taken with the DGX. I have, do, and will continue to count on this bullet in the very worst of circumstances which we regularly see in our business. Dave Fulson | |||
|
One of Us |
Since I've never used the Hornady DGX, I asked an African PH how he likes them in his 500NE. He has had perfect results on elephant and buff so far, his double is regulated for them and he doesn't plan on changing anything. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia