The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting My DGX Field ExperienceGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| My DGX Field Experience | Login/Join |
one of us |
I recently returned from Zim after my first safari. I hunted with Charlton McCallum Safaris and you can see my hunt report on the Hunting Reports – Africa forum. I used Hornady’s 400gr DGS on the elephant and their 400gr DGX on the buff. The DGS performed well, but surprisingly (to me, anyway) the DGX came apart and did not penetrate as well as expected. I hit the buff with the first shot (the second shot was a miss). The bullet certainly killed efficiently, but would it the next time? This is only one bullet and anyone with experience knows sometimes bullets do weird things. However, as much hype as this bullet is getting on the shows right now, I felt obligated to report to my compadres on this instance. The shot was at 35yds and the load chrono’s at 2070fps. On a quartering-to shot, the bullet broke the on-shoulder and passed through both lungs. The first post mortem surprise was that it didn’t penetrate the offside ribs – it was clear that the bullet had struck a rib in line with where you would have expected – behind the off- shoulder, but the bullet was not there, and it did not do substantial damage to the rib. I had a bounty on the bullet and the guys spent a lot of time searching – even searching through the stomach contents. We found a longish piece of jacket in one lung and another embedded in the abraded surface of the offside rib. The crew could not find any more of the bullet during the recovery.   The next day one of the guys approached us and handed me both parts, noting that they had been found in the “chest meat”. It appears from the flattened surface of the lead core that this struck the rib. Now, these bullets shoot very well in my double and believe me when I say that I do not relish the thought of finding another soft load that regulates as well; however, based on this performance I will feel compelled to try other bullets – at least for thick-skinned DG. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | ||
|
One of Us |
Hey Antlers, I wish I could say I am surprised by the performance of the DGX, but I am not. There has been a fair amount posted here on AR with similar results. I had sent a bunch to Sam (srose) and Michael (Michael458) to test in my 450/400. Their results in test media were similar to yours in thick-skinned game. My own experience in various test media (mostly the foliage and soil of the Catskill Mountains and stacks of variably wet newsprint/magazines) demonstrated same. Other softs including Woodleigh and Kodiak RN seem to hold up much better in my limited, quite variable experience. I'm with you and would not use them for thick-skinned dangerous game. NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have been hearing the same rumors. I leave for Zim in two weeks for Buffalo and I am taking a 375 Ruger with both the Hornady DGX and DGS bullets. I think I might use the solid for my first bullet and then the DGX for the second. I will let you all know what happens. STAY IN THE FIGHT! | |||
|
one of us |
I think I’d work up a load with the North Fork CPS, so there is no need for a soft point at all! The CPS will expand enough to do some cutting while maintaining a total weight solid for penetration! The North Fork solids both the CPS and FPS are bore riders and are, IMO, safe to use in a properly bored double rifle! ................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
|
One of Us |
Have to say I've heard the same about the DGX from several PH's as well. | |||
|
One of Us |
Antlers, please consider sending that report and photo to Hornady. My sense is that they're interested in improving their bullets and might take a lesson from your experience. They need to bond the core to the jacket of the DGX bullet to prevent such jacket/core separations from happening. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
|
| one of us |
I used the 500 gr. .458 DGX on a water buffalo in Australia and was also less than pleased with the bullet. However, it did kill the buffalo quickly so I probably can not call it a bullet failure. From about 60 yards I hit the buffalo just behind the shoulder, hit the heart and lungs, and it stopped in the front edge of the off shoulder just under the hide. The buffalo ran about 75 yards and died. The bullet showed almost no expansion, but the core was coming out the front. The core and jacket did not totally separate. Recovered weight was 450 grains. MV was about 2150 fps. This summer I shot a cape buffalo in Zimbabwe, but used the 500 gr. Barnes TSX, also at about 2150 fps. The buffalo was almost perfectly broadside at about 50 yards. I hit in the front edge of the "triangle" recommended by Dr. Robinson, went through heart and lungs, and was in the back edge of the "triangle" under the skin on the far side. This buffalo ran about 50-60 yards and was down. It was a perfect mushroom and weighted 499 gr. Both bullets killed quickly, but I have more confidence in the Barnes. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I had two boxes of Hornady SP in 450/400 (not the DGX sold now, the previous iteration). I normally use LFB ammo (expensive German stuff, but excellent bullets), and when I saw the Hornady I had a doubt at the back of my mind. Just to get rid of the doubt, I tried a round on a downed buffalo, chest shot at a couple of yards. One LFB, one Hornady. The LFB bedhaved as usual, good mushroom and nearly total weight retention. The Hornady pulverized... I only found slivers of copper and lead in the chest. The remainder of the Hornady 450/400 SP ammo got an immediate field promotion to the rank of Plinking Rounds. | |||
|
One of Us |
Some expanding bullets do better than others, but none of them do well when fired into a Buff's shoulder at short range -- that's what solids are for. I've never understood why the automatic choice of bullet for thick skinned game isn't virtually always a dangerous game solid. After all, that's what the solid is designed to tackle. When you get bored with life, start hunting dangerous game with a handgun. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I'm sorry but I must respectfully disagree with you on this one. I have a 350 gr TSX at 2650 fps from my 416 Rigby that I recovered from a Cape Buff Bull shot on the point of the shoulder at approximately 30 yards. It erupted perfectly into the characteristic 4 petals forming the X. It's a bit flatter in the center than most recovered X bullets but all the petals stayed intact and it weighs 349 grains. The bullet was recovered just in front of the offside rear hip under the skin Here are some pics of that bullet.    | |||
|
| One of Us |
When you get bored with life, start hunting dangerous game with a handgun. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I will never shoot a Hornady bullet at anything, let alone DG no matter what the TV Show folks say. The Barnes TSX has always worked in .375 as mentioned/shown in the above pics for me, so no need to shoot anything else at Buff. For the most part the TSX can be used as a single choice and forget about soft first, follow up solids. I have on occasion had two solids at the bottom of the mag, but never ever had to get that far. The TSX has been accurate, and trajectory is top notch, with the Barnes Solids hitting to the same point of aim, if that sould ever become an issue. Larry Sellers SCI Life Member | |||
|
| One of Us |
Try as I might, I can't find your disagreement with me anywhere in your words or pictures beyond the announcement that it's there someplace. You did demonstrate the reality that, as I think I said, some expanding bullets work better than others. Looks like agreement from here, but what do I know. LOL When you get bored with life, start hunting dangerous game with a handgun. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I thought you were saying that "NO" expanding bullets work well when fired at close range into a Buff's shoulder. Possibly, I misread your statement. But I meant it when I said "respectfully" disagree. Didn't mean to be offensive and apologize if I was. I was just pointing out that the TSX does work under these conditions.  | |||
|
| one of us |
Todd I agree that the TSX expanding solids will get the job done in some heavy targets, and your results are typical if the TSX! However, this does nothing to help Antlers with his 450/400NE double rifle! The solid shank bullets that are not BORE RIDERS are not suited to use in a double rifle! The chance of causing OSR or Rib separation is too high with these bullets in a double rifle! That bullet is good but not worth the risk in a double! ............................. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| One of Us |
Mac, I shoot the 570 gr TSX in my 500 NE. I've probably put close to 500 rounds through it with no problems so far. | |||
|
One of Us |
What about Woodleighs?? I have never hunted DG but from what I read on AR the Woodleighs are very good. I use the 320 gr 9.3 in my 9.3X62. I also noticed that Ganyana is a strong believer in using soft points for buffalo & avoids solids on them (unless it is a going away running shot to break the hip of a wounded buffalo). "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
|
| One of Us |
Not to worry, I was just pulling your chain a little. But, I still wonder why anybody uses expanding bullets on thick skinned DG -- just more proof that everyone sees the world his own way, I guess. When you get bored with life, start hunting dangerous game with a handgun. | |||
|
| one of us |
Todd I agree that the TSX expanding solids will get the job done in some heavy targets, and your results are typical if the TSX! However, this does nothing to help Antlers with his 450/400NE double rifle! The solid shank bullets that are not BORE RIDERS are not suited to use in a double rifle! The chance of causing OSR or Rib separation is too high with these bullets in a double rifle! That bullet is good but not worth the risk in a double! ............................. [/QUOTE]Agreed, Mac. I won't be going to the Barnes. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
|
One of Us |
I know Hornady spends a lot of money on advertising, but with Swift A-Frames, Nosler Partitions, North Fork soft points and Barnes TSX's around, I don't know why after this report and the others that preceded it, why anyone would risk using a Hornady expanding bullet on an expensive DG safari unless they were getting paid to. Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the DGX. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
|
| one of us |
I can say that in my 450 No2, I have recovered 480gr Woodleigh Softs, and 500gr Swift A Frames from cape buff and eland. Both performed perfectly. In my 450/400 I have recovered 400gr Woodleigh Softs from cape buff, lion, and black bear, and they performed perfectly. I have recovered 286gr Woodleigh Softs from cape buff, and many plains game. They have performed perfectly... I see a pattern here.... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
| One of Us |
If I'm not reading his data wrong, Michael458's double rifle bullet thread, on page 7 shows that the TSX has LESS barrel strain than the Woodleigh Soft. One thing that may affect it, but I don't know in which direction it would sway the data, is that the TSX tested was a 350gr while the Woodleigh was a 500 grain. Like I said, I could be reading this wrong and if so will gladly stand corrected. I know some believe the TSX is not suitable for doubles but I have yet to see a rifle manufacturer's warning against shooting them. To the contrary, at least one recommends them in his rifles. I've put about 500 TSX's and probably that many Barnes Banded solids down my Merkel over the last 3.5 years with no signs of problems. I haven't shot any other bullet types in that gun as a matter of fact. I know what the terminal performance is with these bullets and they regulate well in my rifle. I haven't heard of a single report of damage being done to a modern double rifle with TSX bullets and absent a manufacturer's warning against them, I'm going to continue using them. That is solely my decision and I'll accept responsibility for any problems that may arise in my rifle, but something tells me, I don't have anything to worry about. One thing is for sure however, I won't be using the Hornady DGX. Sorry Mac, you and I seem to agree on most things but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. But hey, if we all agreed on every issue, what fun would this forum be?  | |||
|
One of Us |
Well, we each have our own positive or negative experiences with DGX. Mine has been positive. This past June in Zimbabwe with 450-400, 400 grain hand loads that Butch Searcy's assistant, Lisa loaded up for me, I killed this buffalo. One shot from the 450-400, from 120 yards, and the buffalo ran 30 yards, death bellowed and it was over.   | |||
|
| One of Us |
I use 400grn DGX in my 404Jef this past season, on Impala, they totaly penetrate, but there was to much expansion, the wound channel from penetration to exit look asof it was made by a 12bore slug and exessive bruising, the DGX IMO is to sogt and only good for target shooting, if I use a leadcore bullet it would be the Woodleigh!! | |||
|
| One of Us |
I obviuosly guided Tim on this hunt when we experienced what can only be called "poor" performance of the Hornady DGX- unfortunately this is not the first time I have seen similiar results. Personaly I would stick with the Woodlieghs, Swift A Frames or Barnes- all tried and tested! | |||
|
One of Us |
Todd, you are reading the data gathered correctly. In fairness both yourself, and Mac are correct to a point. In Macs regard, the older barnes X bullets tested, NO BANDS, were extremely high on the chart of barrel strain, along with the old barnes solids with no bands, and this goes along with all the thoughts of years past. In regards to your observations, you are correct, the TSX was ever so slightly less than the Woodleigh Soft, which is what I used as a "Benchmark" bullet, however it was a 350 gr bullet, therefore with less bearing surface than a 450 or 500 gr TSX. You can also see in the .458 barrel strain data that the 450 Swift is just under the 500 Woodleigh Soft, but the 500 gr Swift goes over the Woodleigh Soft in barrel strain, bearing surface makes a difference. Unfortunately I did not have 450 or 500 gr TSX to test at that time. It would be my belief that the 500 gr TSX would go slightly over the 500 Woodleigh soft, but only by a small margin. With the bands this greatly reduces barrel strain and is a major contributor to that, however one can also reduce barrel strain by reducing diameter, barnes has been famous for that in most recent times, and in fact in some cases I think they reduce diameter too much, especially with the solids, you can only reduce diameter to a point below bore size before terminal stability is effected. Proper measurement of the TSX in the larger calibers will most likely measure under bore size by .002. .001 is of no consequence at all, .002 is more than likely fine for expanding bullets, .002 + I start having concerns about terminal stability with solids, unless of course that meplat size is above 65% of caliber. Sorry, I did not mean to hi jack and will not go further, but any time I see a bullet thread it is always interesting to me. Concerning the real subject at hand, there are a lot of really good bullets available that will not fail in the field, and are very safe for doubles, as far as I have seen and concerned, I don't own doubles, but I know the bullets, as Mac mentioned, the North Forks are incredible, easy on doubles and performance is tops, the new CEB BBW#13s, designed for that purpose as well, the Woodleigh Softs, excellent bullet for that first shot. Todd has had good results with TSX in his rifle, and as many shot, I see little issue there depending on the diameter of the lot. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Antlers, If you are using a 450/400 NE 3 in. , I suggest and recommend the North Fork 400 gr. Soft and Cup Point solids for buffalo. For elephant, use the Flat Point Solids. They are "Bore Riders" (.410 diameter) that seem to produce less pressure for the velocity and won't hurt a properly bored double rifle. They are expensive but the cheapest part of an African trip. If they regulate in your DR as they did in mine, both will shoot to the same POI with very little powder difference, only about 1/2 grain difference in the two loadings 78gr for the solids and 78 1/2 gr for the soft nose, H4831SC gives me 2,118 fps in my Krieghoff. The Swift A-Frames also shoot good but in .411 diameter, Swift only has them from the factory by special order.. (Note they swage down .416 bullets to .411 and the chanelure is not in the right place for OAL) Not cataloged or on web site. Woodleighs are great for practice and hunting though they tend to be softer on the nose, they don't seem to shed jackets on game. My experience is they mushroom faster and don't pass thru. I have never tried the Woodleigh solids. The Hornady DGX are the cheaper way to go for practice if you want to shoot a lot. Good shooting, Tetonka DRSS | |||
|
| one of us |
Well, based on my one and only DG hunt, back in August, my son and I both used the DGXs in our 375 H&H mags. we both had 1 shot kills on our cow cape buff. Mine was quartering to me at about 70 yds. Took her thru the near shoulder. When recovered, it showed great expansion. YMMV. Mad Dog | |||
|
| One of Us |
After reading all this I have ordered up some 375 TSXs for my upcoming trip and will only use the DGXs for target practice. I still intend to use the Hornady solids though as they seem to have had nothing but good results. STAY IN THE FIGHT! | |||
|
| one of us |
Tony, I may well go back to the Woodliegh. You are well aware of all the gyrations I went thru over many months; the Woodlieghs shot pretty well, just not as well as the DGX. UEG, my experience was very similar: one shot from the 450-400 from 35yds; buffalo ran 60yds and died. Did you recover the bullet? I'd be interested in seeing pics. Todd, I won't debate the TSX in doubles argument here. You are more than welcome to shoot what you want in your double; I wish you great success with your choice. tetonka, I tried for months to get the looong promised Northfork .410 400gr softs - in fact Northfork finally stopped replying to my email requests. I just went to their website and they aren't available there. Mad Dog, obvioulsy my mileage did vary. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
|
| One of Us |
Antlers: Yes, the bullet was recovered and showed proper expansion in this instance. Unfortunately, no pics were taken of the bullet. I typically leave any recovered bullets with the trackers or skinners, or just toss them. | |||
|
one of us |
I have had good results with the DGX in my .404 Jeffery taking two buff with the bullet. I have a recovered bullet somewhere... will see if I can get a picture posted. I could not get the Swift's to shoot well in the .404 but the Hornady ammo shoots extremely well. I would say though that my number one choice is the Swift A-Frame if they will shoot in my rifles. Used Swifts this April in my .375 on two buff with Martin Pieters and "no complaints" as usual. On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
|
| one of us |
Antlers Try the 400gr Swift A Frame. They might shoot better in your double than the Woodleighs. Chris has has perfect results with them in his 450/400. The 500gr Swifts performed perfectly in my 450 No2. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
|
| one of us |
UEG or bwanamrm, either of you shoot the DGX shoulder to shoulder on your buffs? Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
|
| One of Us |
Well, I'm strickly a nosler-partition man and have never had problems. Losing the nose-core is not a problem it's just another projectile in the animal. The Swift a-frame would work just as well and keep it's nose-core for those who demand that. I thought the DGX bullets were bonded cores, apparently not. | |||
|
| one of us |
N E 450 No2, I tried them early on and they didn't shoot well at all (barrel groups were good, tho), but I will try them again. I like the Swifts alot and have some experience with their performance. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
|
| One of Us |
Amy word on how the 400 gr 416 Partition is working? | |||
|
| one of us |
I too am a sworn Partition man, but they don't make bullets for this caliber. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
|
| one of us |
We do disagree Todd, on this, but little else! I can't argue with the results in YOUR rifle that is what it is, but certainly doesn’t apply to all double rifles! Merkels are tuff rifles, and I have a couple of Merkel double rifles, but I still will not shoot a mono-metal solid that is not a bore rider in ANY double rifle I own. Others may do as it suits! The Bore riders type solids are perfect for double rifle use, and because of the design generate far less strain on the barrels than even the steel jacketed, lead core solids that were actually designed for double rifle use, so are safe to shoot in even very old double rifles! When loading the bore rider you actually have to reduce the powder charge used for the same weight for a conventional solid, because they produce so much less friction on the bore that the speed get too high, and hinders regulation. The very thin pressure rings are easy to engrave, and the space between these rings gives the displaced metal a place to go. This fact makes the copper Mono-metal with the very thin pressure rings the best of both worlds, even in the single barreled rifles. It allows the use of a solid bullet with no core to be lost on impact with game but is actually less harmful to the barrel than even the standard jacketed soft point bullet. The mono-metal bullets without the thin rings and the bore rider diameters are IN FACT harder on barrels than the bore riders yet offer no more effect on the animal being shot with them! In some of the doubles with very thin barrel walls and softer steel OSR and/or rib separation, is the result of mono-metal bullets without proper thin rings, or even rings that are too wide! The move lately to copper was a good move, but the real deal is the properly cut thin pressure rings! There are many people who do not believe that OSR, and rib separations can be the result of Mono-metal bullets in double rifles but I have seen examples of it! And as long as bullets like the bore-riders are available I see absolutely no sense in taking the chance with a bullet that is not so designed! This country being free, at least for the time being, folks may do as it suite them, I’ll do what suits me! ……………………………………………………….  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| one of us |
I did... through the on-side shoulder, bullet recovered in the off-side shoulder. The DGX broke both shoulders and the buff plowed the ground with his nose for 20 yards before rolling over and giving the death bellow. The other bull I shot with DGX's was hit right behind the shoulder so I can't use it for comparison purposes. On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia