Again, Shooting from the Truck!

19 August 2014, 05:00

Q./ Are people against shooting from a vehicle because it gives the animal less sporting chance?

Are those same people against stealthily drifting down a river and killing game on the shore from the canoe/boat?
Or does one need to step ashore first in order to be more sporting or ethical?

Animals with their primitive defences need direct physical contact with humans to do them damage,
Wheras rifle packing humans by choice always exercise the advantage of using a modern cartridge that can quite often effectively drill an animal end to end,
from the advantage of a safer more remote position.

Just wondering why people happily accept having and exercising/utilising certain technological advantages over animals, but then scorne the use of other
advantageous methods.

19 August 2014, 05:42

Crazyhorseconsulting

This is one of those conversations that needs to die on the vine.

It has been pretty well established that some of us would prefer to do a stalk away from the vehicles/water holes, whatever, while others have no problem.

However unless I have miscounted, the majority feel that as long as the hunter is comfortable with the situation, and it is legal, that
is all that matters, it is the prerogative of the person paying for the hunt as to how the hunt is to be conducted.

19 August 2014, 05:50

Trax

quote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
it is the prerogative of the person paying for the hunt as to how the hunt is to be conducted.

Not entirely, since depending on the unfolding circumstance, the PH decision may & sometimes should, override the clients preference.
The desires of a client who is inept/cannot shoot to effect a clean swift kill, or save his own life [or anyone else's],should not necessarily
take precedence over the primary responsibilities of a sensible and dutiful PH.

19 August 2014, 06:12

Crazyhorseconsulting

Trax, just ask any of the PH's that participate on this site, it is the person Paying for the hunt that has the final say.

Not the PH, not the Outfitter, not the booking agent, it is the person who is paying the bills that makes the decisions.

It really does not matter whether you agree with that or not. If PH's/Guides/outfitters intend on staying in business, they are going to provide the type hunt the Client wants.

19 August 2014, 06:15

Trax

You seem to be talking in absolutes.

19 August 2014, 06:20

Crazyhorseconsulting

No, I am talking in realities. The person paying for the hunt sets the parameters. That is really pretty simple to understand.

It is the CLIENTS hunt, not the PH's or outfitter/booking agent's hunt.

19 August 2014, 06:24

Trax

quote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
No, I am talking in realities. The person paying for the hunt sets the parameters.
That is really pretty simple to understand.

When and where A PH intervenes with his rifle is not set by the client, it is determined by the PH according to circumstance and his professional responsibilities.
Or are you telling the forum that the novice client overrides and dictates when its deemed appropriate for the PH to intervene with his weapon?

The client has a say in the conduct of the hunt , but only to a certain degree, sometimes more say , sometimes less, depending on circumstance.

If all parameters were determined by clients, there would be more clients going home in a box, rather than their trophies going home in a box....

Of course a PH cannot entirely prevent a client from doing something stupid or unnecessarily dangerous.

19 August 2014, 06:28

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Trax, just ask any of the PH's that participate on this site, it is the person Paying for the hunt that has the final say.

Not the PH, not the Outfitter, not the booking agent, it is the person who is paying the bills that makes the decisions.

It really does not matter whether you agree with that or not. If PH's/Guides/outfitters intend on staying in business, they are going to provide the type hunt the Client wants.

That is not strictly true.

In practically everything, that might be true.

But, I know some PH who would absolutely refuse to do anything that is not permitted by law.

19 August 2014, 07:36

Crazyhorseconsulting

I did not say anything about any illegal activities, so if that will make you feel better, a PH/Guide/Outfitter is going to provide the hunt a paying client wants as long as it is LEGAL.

Happy with that and can you dispute that?

As long as what the client wants to do is Legal, who decides how the hunt goes?

19 August 2014, 07:59

Trax

I believe there is at least one PH that allows the animal to decide how the hunt goes.
.....and its all completely legal.

are you going to dispute that?...

19 August 2014, 08:06

Saeed

You will be surprised on what some clients ask for.

I understand some PHs tend to bend the rules, and comply.

Others have their own standards, and refuse to change them.

I have heard of PHs terminating a hunt because of certain behaviors from the clients.

I have also heard of PH telling clients - who wanted to book future hunts - that they fully booked FOR LIFE!

Just imagine being a client and being told that.

PHs will do anything to please their clients, and that is how it should be.

But, the mind boggles at the behavior of some clients.

How about the client who specifically continues to shoot females, despite his PH pointing a ram for him to shoot?

The first time that happened, there was an argument.

The second time it happened, the client just grinned and flatly said he likes to shoot female!!??

The truck went straight to camp, and that was the end of the hunt.

How about a client who specifically wounded game, and after the shot, walks back to the truck, and tells the PHs "it is your job, go get it".

How about the client who walks up to an animal after he had shot it, and proceeds to kick the daylights out of it?

99% of us hunters are just the same.

We like to go and hunt in a normal way and enjoy ourselves.

That 1%, however, are nothing but queer creeps, who probably should never go on safari.

And so far their little secret has been relatively well kept.

But, now with all the social media and Internet, things are coming out where before we only heard them from word of mouth.

And we also have the so called PHs who never bat an eyelid for breaking the law.

20 August 2014, 07:18

Crazyhorseconsulting

quote:
I believe there is at least one PH that allows the animal to decide how the hunt goes......and its all completely legal.are you going to dispute that?...

I am not disputing anything. On ANY guided hunt or fishing trip, there has to be open lines of communication between the major players and that does include the Client.

Dispute that Trax!

An important aspect of communication is the ability to Listen. An important aspect of Listening is to pay attention and understand what the other party involved is actually saying.

My personal opinion is that a portion of the negative hunt reports that appear on AR and others sites are the result of a Client not listening to what they were being told.

Another portion of those reports arise from clients not making it clear to the guide/PH/outfitter what they want in a hunt, as long as it is legal.

From experience on both sides of the issue, lack of communication between the professional and the client causes the majority of problems on any trip.

20 August 2014, 07:59

Jefffive

It's been a while since I read my Ruark, but the two things that are most memorable, to me, was the prominence of the drinking (it was ubiquitous), and the number of times Selby or Ruark would spot game, get out and "wait for the car to go away" before even starting a stalk.

For me, not applicable to anyone else, a vehicle is for transportation to the hunting area, not an integral part of the hunt itself.

Somebody earlier in the thread (which I'm too lazy to go hunt up) brought up shooting from a boat. In that case, as in shooting from a vehicle, I've always been guided by what the Law in Tennessee requires/allows: It is illegal (and therefore immoral and unethical) to shoot from a boat under power.

And in my opinion any PH who would allow a client to shoot from a vehicle would probably also drink his sister's used bath water.

20 August 2014, 08:10

Saeed

quote:
I've always been guided by what the Law in Tennessee requires/allows

Jeff,

What is illegal in one area might not be in another.

I still believe one should use his own judgment, and if he wishes to participate in an activity that is illegal in his own country, but legal in the country where he is, that is entirely his personal choice.

20 August 2014, 08:17

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
It's been a while since I read my Ruark, but the two things that are most memorable, to me, was the prominence of the drinking (it was ubiquitous), and the number of times Selby or Ruark would spot game, get out and "wait for the car to go away" before even starting a stalk.

For me, not applicable to anyone else, a vehicle is for transportation to the hunting area, not an integral part of the hunt itself.

Somebody earlier in the thread (which I'm too lazy to go hunt up) brought up shooting from a boat. In that case, as in shooting from a vehicle, I've always been guided by what the Law in Tennessee requires/allows: It is illegal (and therefore immoral and unethical) to shoot from a boat under power.

And in my opinion any PH who would allow a client to shoot from a vehicle would probably also drink his sister's used bath water.

Jeff,
It was a book. For all we know those two (Ruark and Selby)drove around and chased shit with the hunting car all day. Shooting from the car in Africa is pretty common. Like Larry Shores and Saeed both have stated; situations differ, sometimes it just happens. I don't practice it, but I have taken several shots from the car in my years. Mostly an Impala or two for an opportunistic Leopard bait.

Steve

20 August 2014, 08:53

Trax

quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
It's been a while since I read my Ruark, but the two things that are most memorable, to me, was the prominence of the drinking (it was ubiquitous), and the number of times Selby or Ruark would spot game, get out and "wait for the car to go away" before even starting a stalk.

For me, not applicable to anyone else, a vehicle is for transportation to the hunting area, not an integral part of the hunt itself.

Somebody earlier in the thread (which I'm too lazy to go hunt up) brought up shooting from a boat. In that case, as in shooting from a vehicle, I've always been guided by what the Law in Tennessee requires/allows: It is illegal (and therefore immoral and unethical) to shoot from a boat under power.

And in my opinion any PH who would allow a client to shoot from a vehicle would probably also drink his sister's used bath water.

Before the emergence of the faster pace modern mechanised type safaris, like Selby ran from the late 1940s,
There were people running around in vehicles shooting African game, both commercially and recreationally.
WDM Bell wrote that elephants were heavily persecuted by such hunters in vehicles in the colonies, before he hunted ele in Africa.
In fact, that is what required him to venture into the more remote-less easily accessible territory,to gather his ivory.
Elephants were also shot on the shores by such ivory hunters from the convenience of boats.

Ivory hunters were not out looking for some unique or personal thrill hunting experience, they were out to gather the highly lucrative-highly financially rewarding ivory!

Anything that made the process easier/ less time wasting,the better for them....ie; 1./ hopefully get in a good yielding area, 2./ get the ivory and... 3./ then get out.
[hence why Bell went to the trouble to perfect the highly efficient-time saving brain shot.]

Correct me if wrong, but both native Indian and white European use the convenience of horseback hunting 'as a vehicle' to hunt bison.

Of course Bell only ended up hunting elephant, because his original dream of wanting to hunt Bison in the US, was no longer possible, since they had already been decimated.

1925 Rolls Royce hunting vehicle - with machine-gun in tow for hunting dangerous game. ..

and.. the cars vehicle mounted double. ...

20 August 2014, 10:09

Jefffive

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
I've always been guided by what the Law in Tennessee requires/allows

Jeff,

What is illegal in one area might not be in another.

I still believe one should use his own judgment, and if he wishes to participate in an activity that is illegal in his own country, but legal in the country where he is, that is entirely his personal choice.

Saeed,
Absolutely. I just grew up hunting under a set of standards, some inherited and some defined by the Law where I did my hunting, and that has become, for me, what constitutes "ethical". I, personally, would not value a 45" sable shot from a truck, beautiful as it might be. On the other hand, if it's killing rather than hunting, for bait or supper, and it's legal, shooting from a truck might make sense.

I'm not saying anybody should do as I say, except those sister-water drinkers...

20 August 2014, 10:19

Jefffive

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
It's been a while since I read my Ruark, but the two things that are most memorable, to me, was the prominence of the drinking (it was ubiquitous), and the number of times Selby or Ruark would spot game, get out and "wait for the car to go away" before even starting a stalk.

For me, not applicable to anyone else, a vehicle is for transportation to the hunting area, not an integral part of the hunt itself.

Somebody earlier in the thread (which I'm too lazy to go hunt up) brought up shooting from a boat. In that case, as in shooting from a vehicle, I've always been guided by what the Law in Tennessee requires/allows: It is illegal (and therefore immoral and unethical) to shoot from a boat under power.

And in my opinion any PH who would allow a client to shoot from a vehicle would probably also drink his sister's used bath water.

Jeff,
It was a book. For all we know those two (Ruark and Selby)drove around and chased shit with the hunting car all day. Shooting from the car in Africa is pretty common. Like Larry Shores and Saeed both have stated; situations differ, sometimes it just happens. I don't practice it, but I have taken several shots from the car in my years. Mostly an Impala or two for an opportunistic Leopard bait.

Steve

You know, you're right. Since it was written down in a book it can't have any validity, and those libraries are taking up valuable space that could be used for parking lots.

20 August 2014, 11:58

Sean Russell

quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
It's been a while since I read my Ruark, but the two things that are most memorable, to me, was the prominence of the drinking (it was ubiquitous), and the number of times Selby or Ruark would spot game, get out and "wait for the car to go away" before even starting a stalk.

For me, not applicable to anyone else, a vehicle is for transportation to the hunting area, not an integral part of the hunt itself.

Somebody earlier in the thread (which I'm too lazy to go hunt up) brought up shooting from a boat. In that case, as in shooting from a vehicle, I've always been guided by what the Law in Tennessee requires/allows: It is illegal (and therefore immoral and unethical) to shoot from a boat under power.

And in my opinion any PH who would allow a client to shoot from a vehicle would probably also drink his sister's used bath water.

Jeff,
It was a book. For all we know those two (Ruark and Selby)drove around and chased shit with the hunting car all day. Shooting from the car in Africa is pretty common. Like Larry Shores and Saeed both have stated; situations differ, sometimes it just happens. I don't practice it, but I have taken several shots from the car in my years. Mostly an Impala or two for an opportunistic Leopard bait.

Steve

You know, you're right. Since it was written down in a book it can't have any validity, and those libraries are taking up valuable space that could be used for parking lots.

Let us keep in mind the difference between gospel and fiction----Ruark wrote fiction--to entertain his audience. As far as i know he never thought of himself as a prophet------------

20 August 2014, 12:21

Blair 338RUM

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
You will be surprised on what some clients ask for.

I understand some PHs tend to bend the rules, and comply.

Others have their own standards, and refuse to change them.

I have heard of PHs terminating a hunt because of certain behaviors from the clients.

I have also heard of PH telling clients - who wanted to book future hunts - that they fully booked FOR LIFE!

Just imagine being a client and being told that.

PHs will do anything to please their clients, and that is how it should be.

But, the mind boggles at the behavior of some clients.

How about the client who specifically continues to shoot females, despite his PH pointing a ram for him to shoot?

The first time that happened, there was an argument.

The second time it happened, the client just grinned and flatly said he likes to shoot female!!??

The truck went straight to camp, and that was the end of the hunt.

How about a client who specifically wounded game, and after the shot, walks back to the truck, and tells the PHs "it is your job, go get it".

How about the client who walks up to an animal after he had shot it, and proceeds to kick the daylights out of it?

99% of us hunters are just the same.

We like to go and hunt in a normal way and enjoy ourselves.

That 1%, however, are nothing but queer creeps, who probably should never go on safari.

And so far their little secret has been relatively well kept.

But, now with all the social media and Internet, things are coming out where before we only heard them from word of mouth.

And we also have the so called PHs who never bat an eyelid for breaking the law.

I've heard stories of hunters who arrive in camp and fly Asian and Russian women in from Joburg and tell the PH to shoot everything for them while they party.

I've had a PH friend of mine who had a client who was so dangerous with his gun handling, he just dropped him off at the airport after a final argument about it..... and after repeated attempts to change his behaviours.

The worst behaviour according to a another PH friend is those guys who have made a lot of money fast, or recently and are complete bastards to deal with.

20 August 2014, 20:36

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
It's been a while since I read my Ruark, but the two things that are most memorable, to me, was the prominence of the drinking (it was ubiquitous), and the number of times Selby or Ruark would spot game, get out and "wait for the car to go away" before even starting a stalk.

For me, not applicable to anyone else, a vehicle is for transportation to the hunting area, not an integral part of the hunt itself.

Somebody earlier in the thread (which I'm too lazy to go hunt up) brought up shooting from a boat. In that case, as in shooting from a vehicle, I've always been guided by what the Law in Tennessee requires/allows: It is illegal (and therefore immoral and unethical) to shoot from a boat under power.

And in my opinion any PH who would allow a client to shoot from a vehicle would probably also drink his sister's used bath water.

Jeff,
It was a book. For all we know those two (Ruark and Selby)drove around and chased shit with the hunting car all day. Shooting from the car in Africa is pretty common. Like Larry Shores and Saeed both have stated; situations differ, sometimes it just happens. I don't practice it, but I have taken several shots from the car in my years. Mostly an Impala or two for an opportunistic Leopard bait.

Steve

You know, you're right. Since it was written down in a book it can't have any validity, and those libraries are taking up valuable space that could be used for parking lots.

You're the same condescending know-nothing you've always been. I suppose Capstick's adventures are the gospel as well?

I did say "for all we know" Go have a colonic and report back.

20 August 2014, 20:50

Jefffive

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
It's been a while since I read my Ruark, but the two things that are most memorable, to me, was the prominence of the drinking (it was ubiquitous), and the number of times Selby or Ruark would spot game, get out and "wait for the car to go away" before even starting a stalk.

For me, not applicable to anyone else, a vehicle is for transportation to the hunting area, not an integral part of the hunt itself.

Somebody earlier in the thread (which I'm too lazy to go hunt up) brought up shooting from a boat. In that case, as in shooting from a vehicle, I've always been guided by what the Law in Tennessee requires/allows: It is illegal (and therefore immoral and unethical) to shoot from a boat under power.

And in my opinion any PH who would allow a client to shoot from a vehicle would probably also drink his sister's used bath water.

Jeff,
It was a book. For all we know those two (Ruark and Selby)drove around and chased shit with the hunting car all day. Shooting from the car in Africa is pretty common. Like Larry Shores and Saeed both have stated; situations differ, sometimes it just happens. I don't practice it, but I have taken several shots from the car in my years. Mostly an Impala or two for an opportunistic Leopard bait.

Steve

You know, you're right. Since it was written down in a book it can't have any validity, and those libraries are taking up valuable space that could be used for parking lots.

You're the same condescending know-nothing you've always been. I suppose Capstick's adventures are the gospel as well?

I did say "for all we know" Go have a colonic and report back.

I have no idea what's true in Capstick's works and what's not, but sure as hell he could write rings around you drunk on his ass.

You see, it really doesn't matter if Ruark's stuff was the gospel truth, it was part of what formed my hunting ideal when I was a kid. I knew even then that the general practice of shooting up lion prides in Roosevelt couldn't be "right", but folks like Akeley and Ruark contributed to where I set my boundary lines.

And to be perfectly honest I don't actually give an inverted flying fuck what your pompous ass thinks.

20 August 2014, 20:58

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
It's been a while since I read my Ruark, but the two things that are most memorable, to me, was the prominence of the drinking (it was ubiquitous), and the number of times Selby or Ruark would spot game, get out and "wait for the car to go away" before even starting a stalk.

For me, not applicable to anyone else, a vehicle is for transportation to the hunting area, not an integral part of the hunt itself.

Somebody earlier in the thread (which I'm too lazy to go hunt up) brought up shooting from a boat. In that case, as in shooting from a vehicle, I've always been guided by what the Law in Tennessee requires/allows: It is illegal (and therefore immoral and unethical) to shoot from a boat under power.

And in my opinion any PH who would allow a client to shoot from a vehicle would probably also drink his sister's used bath water.

Jeff,
It was a book. For all we know those two (Ruark and Selby)drove around and chased shit with the hunting car all day. Shooting from the car in Africa is pretty common. Like Larry Shores and Saeed both have stated; situations differ, sometimes it just happens. I don't practice it, but I have taken several shots from the car in my years. Mostly an Impala or two for an opportunistic Leopard bait.

Steve

You know, you're right. Since it was written down in a book it can't have any validity, and those libraries are taking up valuable space that could be used for parking lots.

You're the same condescending know-nothing you've always been. I suppose Capstick's adventures are the gospel as well?

I did say "for all we know" Go have a colonic and report back.

I have no idea what's true in Capstick's works and what's not, but sure as hell he could write rings around you drunk on his ass.

You see, it really doesn't matter if Ruark's stuff was the gospel truth, it was part of what formed my hunting ideal when I was a kid. I knew even then that the general practice of shooting up lion prides in Roosevelt couldn't be "right", but folks like Akeley and Ruark contributed to where I set my boundary lines.

And to be perfectly honest I don't actually give an inverted flying fuck what your pompous ass thinks.

If my pompous ass remembers correctly, Ruark was "dumped" out of a moving cruiser while getting close enough to whack one? The lion watched the truck and Ruark dumped a tabby or two?

And...have you even read any of my work? Perhaps I could be your new mentor if you did.

20 August 2014, 21:48

Saeed

Funny part is I never liked Ruark!

I was never able to finish his books at all.

Chapstick, on the other hand, I enjoyed reading very much.

20 August 2014, 21:58

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Funny part is I never liked Ruark!

I was never able to finish his books at all.

Chapstick, on the other hand, I enjoyed reading very much.

Hi Saeed,
That is my exact assessment as well. I couldn't get through a Ruark book either. Even though Capstick was a long suffering fraud, I really liked his "novels" and made my first few trips based on enthusiasm from his books.

I have an autographed copy of "Death in the Long Grass."

21 August 2014, 22:21

465H&H

When you grow up operating under certain rules it can be difficult or in some cases impossible to be comfortable operating under different rules. I have never been in any US place where shooting BG is allowed from a vehicle. While I have been offered such opportunities in Africa where it is legal, I just have never been able to do it. If your conscience allows you to do it, be my guest but please don't post the videos where non-hunters are likely to see it.

465H&H

21 August 2014, 23:26

AnotherAZWriter

quote:
Originally posted by KPete:
Cecil's original post was thoughtful, sober, and entirely reasonable. It baffles me how insecure some on AR are when 'one of us' posits what they set for themselves as a personal standard. Guilt perhaps?

Cecil was speaking for himself and relaying a personal standard he has chosen to apply on hunts in the future. I admire his honesty, self-examination, and thoughtful resolve. Nowhere did he assert that his ethical choices should be imposed upon anyone else.

That said, let me then go one step further: In my opinion, if it's not Fair Chase, it's not ethical hunting for me or you. It may be shooting game for the pot, or culling, or in the case of the Green Mile video, animal cruelty with firearms - but it's not ethical hunting.

If we adhere to the mindless presumption that to judge other hunters gives succor to the antis, we condemn all of us to be judged by the public for not taking a stand against even the most odious hunting behavior. If you disagree with that, then you disagree with President Theodore Roosevelt, who helped to popularize the adoption of Fair Chase. Far from being doctrinaire or overly proscriptive, the concept of Fair Chase is nothing less than the application of ethics and principles in hunting, and is both simple and straight forward. Simply put, Fair Chase is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild game animals in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.

No shrinking violet was Teddy; he had no qualms about labeling a hunter unethical. Indeed, he forewarned of the risk to hunting should we fail to self-regulate the sport. In recent times, a good example of an attempt at self-regulation would be when those opposed to canned hunting raise the issue of ethics, doing so out of respect for the tradition of Fair Chase and a desire to protect the sport from those who oppose all hunting. Canned hunts are the definition of a hunter employing an "improper advantage" in pursuit of animals that are not "free ranging".

As a community that loathes government interference with our sport – preferring instead self-regulation – I think it dangerous to simply wave as our banner, 'If it's legal it's okay'. How many of you watching the Green Mile video managed to mutter, "well it's legal", between spasms of retching? I say it's is up to each of us to voice our objections when we witness hunting behavior that violates even the most elastic of ethical standards as embodied in Fair Chase.

So long as we recognize that there are limits to the laissez faire ideal of 'to each his own' when it comes to hunting, and accept that the principles of Fair Chase are both reasonable and in our self-interest, we help to protect ourselves, our sport, as well as the animals we hunt.

We all have our own opinions on what behavior constitutes ethical behavior on any number of different fronts. Certain things we do in life in may be legal, but certainly not all of us recognize them as being moral. I can certainly think some of behaviors you defended here on AR that I personally found "retching." Thanks for the lecture.

22 August 2014, 01:46

Sean Russell

So may we assume that all of you with the tender sensibilities travel to africa either by sailing ship or rowboat, then walk inland from the coast?

If you won't shoot from a truck, you surely can't justify flying in an airplane to get at the poor beasty.

Wouldn't want to take any advantage of the animals now , would we

22 August 2014, 02:27

MJines

Sean, you really need to work on developing another line of logical analysis. While I agree with you substantively here, using the worn approach of arguing that anyone not wanting to do things the "modern" way is a relic, is really a stretch in this particular instance. While it works better on the round nose versus flat nose solid issue, you need to try and develop at least one other way of presenting an argument to add to your arsenal and posting repertoire. I guess I should commend you for at least not resorting to talking about horses and buggies and bi-planes.

22 August 2014, 02:46

Frostbit

My next Safari...

Probably won't post a hunt report though. Might get accused of shooting from a Porter.

______________________
DRSS
______________________
Hunt Reports

2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112
2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012
DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191
Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771
Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141
Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141

22 August 2014, 02:56

MJines

It is considered acceptable to shoot from a palanquin. (See Sean, try something a little different to make the point.)

22 August 2014, 03:12

bwana cecil

quote:
So may we assume that all of you with the tender sensibilities travel to africa either by sailing ship or rowboat, then walk inland from the coast?If you won't shoot from a truck, you surely can't justify flying in an airplane to get at the poor beasty.Wouldn't want to take any advantage of the animals now , would we

Maybe in the future I will just use a rock instead of my rifle as well.
I should have known some dumb dick would stoop to this.

22 August 2014, 04:59

Jefffive

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
It's been a while since I read my Ruark, but the two things that are most memorable, to me, was the prominence of the drinking (it was ubiquitous), and the number of times Selby or Ruark would spot game, get out and "wait for the car to go away" before even starting a stalk.

For me, not applicable to anyone else, a vehicle is for transportation to the hunting area, not an integral part of the hunt itself.

Somebody earlier in the thread (which I'm too lazy to go hunt up) brought up shooting from a boat. In that case, as in shooting from a vehicle, I've always been guided by what the Law in Tennessee requires/allows: It is illegal (and therefore immoral and unethical) to shoot from a boat under power.

And in my opinion any PH who would allow a client to shoot from a vehicle would probably also drink his sister's used bath water.

Jeff,
It was a book. For all we know those two (Ruark and Selby)drove around and chased shit with the hunting car all day. Shooting from the car in Africa is pretty common. Like Larry Shores and Saeed both have stated; situations differ, sometimes it just happens. I don't practice it, but I have taken several shots from the car in my years. Mostly an Impala or two for an opportunistic Leopard bait.

Steve

You know, you're right. Since it was written down in a book it can't have any validity, and those libraries are taking up valuable space that could be used for parking lots.

You're the same condescending know-nothing you've always been. I suppose Capstick's adventures are the gospel as well?

I did say "for all we know" Go have a colonic and report back.

I have no idea what's true in Capstick's works and what's not, but sure as hell he could write rings around you drunk on his ass.

You see, it really doesn't matter if Ruark's stuff was the gospel truth, it was part of what formed my hunting ideal when I was a kid. I knew even then that the general practice of shooting up lion prides in Roosevelt couldn't be "right", but folks like Akeley and Ruark contributed to where I set my boundary lines.

And to be perfectly honest I don't actually give an inverted flying fuck what your pompous ass thinks.

If my pompous ass remembers correctly, Ruark was "dumped" out of a moving cruiser while getting close enough to whack one? The lion watched the truck and Ruark dumped a tabby or two?

And...have you even read any of my work? Perhaps I could be your new mentor if you did.

I believe (but could be wrong) Ruark and Selby, on at least one occasion, exited the hunting car and waited for it to move the prescribed (by law) distance away before commencing the stalk.

I also believe it's currently illegal, in Tanzania where the Green Mile video was shot, to chase an animal with a vehicle OR shoot one from a vehicle. Again, unlike you, I could be wrong.

I have read your writing here, let's just say I'm underwhelmed.