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Are Barnes X too hard for Leopard
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Picture of Greg G
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I shot a Leopard with the 270 grn. Barnes X bullet in my .375 on a Mozambique safari this past October. The shot was on the shoulder as per the instructions of my PH but the Leopard ran nearly 80 yards before calling it a night. In the furture I'll being shooting a softer bullet for Leopard.
 
Posts: 1 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 28 November 2007Reply With Quote
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Picture of MacD37
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quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
My first reply was a bit short, so let me explain a little further. Sure an X will do the job if you put the bullet in exactly the right place, but a cat is very light boned and thin skinned and that bullet design will almost certainly shoot straight through without any expansion at all. - You might just as well be using a solid. - So if you put the bullet in the wrong place, the cat will be full of anger and probably very mobile when you, or rather, your PH has to go look for him. If you use a fast expanding bullet such as an Silvertip, Woodleigh (SP) or even an A Frame, you'll be putting a much bigger hole in the cat. The bigger the hole, the faster he'll bleed out, weaken and die. If he does come for the PH, he'll probably be slower with a big hole and less blood in him than he'd be be with a small hole and more blood in him.

As to the argument that two different loads is a recipe for trouble...... I don't agree in this case. If the PH knows what he's doing, he'll at the very least, have you re-zero your rifle for the exact range of the shot, so a different load shouldn't make any difference at all. The morning after you take your cat, you'll simply re zero your rifle for the Xs before you resume hunting again.

Regarding the Silvertip, the bullet was designed in the (I believe?) the 1940s and was intended as a cat load for (originally) the 375. I've used them in handloads, on and off since I first started hunting Africa 28 years ago. I've never seen one fail on anything, let alone a cat and I personally believe that in a suitable calibre they're still the best possible choice for a cat. - I appreciate other people have had problems, but that could in in factory loads or for a hundred and one other reasons.

All that said, it would be unprofessional of me not to suggest that you contact the PH you'll actually be hunting with and ask his advice and preferences. After all, he's the guy that'll be going off into the dark to look for any mistakes.

I'll amend my post by adding that as with all hunting, shot placement is the most important thing. Get that right and it won't matter what bullet you use.


Gentlemen, I think the above post is worth repeating!

Mr. Jolly, the only other choice I would consider in the 375 H&H is a Nosler Partition, but there are many well known PHs who reccomend the silvertip in anything from 30-06 up to and including the 375 H&H for leopard, but I don't know one who reccomends an X bullet in the 375 H&H for the spotted cat! Of course I simply don't know all the PHs, so you can take my reccomendation for the price you paid for it! $0,00............. beer


....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

 
Posts: 14634 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: 08 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Picture of Karl S
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quote:
but I don't know one who reccomends an X bullet in the 375 H&H for the spotted cat!

Mac, can I then be the 1st Ph you know that reccomends it?


Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris www.huntingsafaris.net
karl@huntingsafaris.net
P.O. Box 1667, Katima Mulilo, Namibia
Cell: +264 81 1285 416
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Sat. phone: +88 163 166 9264
 
Posts: 1336 | Location: Namibia, Caprivi | Registered: 11 September 2005Reply With Quote
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May I be the second PH that recommends it?

Jonathan Hulme
Zambezi Hunters
www.zambezihunters.com
 
Posts: 15 | Location: Bahamas | Registered: 10 January 2004Reply With Quote
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I used a .375 caliber, 300 gr TSX on my Leopard in Zimbabwe. Although a bit embarrassed to admit it, I hit the cat too far back (guts and liver), and hit no bones whatsoever. The exit hole clearly showed the bullet had opened. The cat did run 80-100 yards, but was dead by the time we tracked and found it.
I don't know how I could ask for better. There was significant internal damage (obviously fatal rather quickly) from a "poor hit". I will opt for the perfect placement every time over bullet construction, but realizing that perfect placement doesn't always happen, I use the TSX. They really do far more damage than you would expect just holding the bullet in your hand.

Have any of you seen the Barnes video comparing how fast their bullets open compared to soft core lead bullets? It is a real eye opener. I realize it is a marketing video, but let me say that the slow motion video demonstrates clearly that the TSX bullets opens far quicker than others. While the bullet may look like a solid, it doesn't behave that way in tissue, and has never let me down.
Bill
 
Posts: 1088 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA | Registered: 19 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of Michael Robinson
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A .375 caliber Barnes X bullet is probably a bit on the hard side for use on leopard - but from my experience with X bullets, I have no doubt it would work just fine.


Mike

Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
 
Posts: 13625 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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Posts: 7857 | Registered: 16 August 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Safari-Hunt:
Saaed,

And I suppose the exit wound would be no problem for a taxidermsit to fix.


If it wasn't for the spot of blood, we would not have found either the entry or the exit holes.


Some of game scouts and trackers had a theory about the black coating we have on our bullets - that is molly coating.

They think it is poison! As anything hit doesn't take long to die Smiler

I normaly add an additional coat to the bullets we use on "thin" skinned game, to make sure more poison stays in to do the killing clap

This whole notion that one bullet is too hard for some animals boggles the mind.


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Posts: 68678 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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true but the real key everyone is missing in discussing the bullets is shot placement each and every time. That is the real key here. I suupose we can take this argument to the other extreme. From this train of thought we could think that ballistic tips would be the perfect bullet for leopard. Any thoughts?


Happiness is a warm gun
 
Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of Bill 5248
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R.Jolly, you are taking an expanding bullet (original Barnes-X). Of course it is not in the fast-expanding class like some others, but you are speculating about how well it will expand on leopard. My bet is that it will expand fairly well due to its high velocity.

I say that because when you hunt leopard you are predicting a shot at fairly close range, say 50 yards. At that range your bullet will still be traveling at close to muzzle velocity. I suspect the bullet will be torn open violently because of the speed when hitting a soft target. I imagine that there will be lots of hydrostatic shock, much more than the X-bullet petals can stand. My guess is that it's only much further down range that you might encounter a more sluggish expansion. Thanks for letting us speculate with you on this. Bill


That which is not impossible is compulsory
 
Posts: 161 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: 16 May 2006Reply With Quote
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Many thanks for all of the advise and PMs on this subject. I thought that it may be of interest to post my conclusions. The general consensus would seem to be that hunting both buffalo and leopard with the same bullet from a 375 is a compromise, but that it is achievable. The bullet of choice for most including my Ph and oufitter is the Swift A Frame.
 
Posts: 559 | Location: UK | Registered: 17 November 2006Reply With Quote
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Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. People talk about getting into shape to do a safari, IMO shooting ability is sooo much more important and the same goes for bullets.
 
Posts: 5338 | Location: Bedford, Pa. USA | Registered: 23 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. People talk about getting into shape to do a safari, IMO shooting ability (with good accuracy) is sooo much more important and the same goes for bullets.
 
Posts: 5338 | Location: Bedford, Pa. USA | Registered: 23 February 2002Reply With Quote
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