NitroX with respect I submit the mentioned issue is none of OUR business.
The topic of this thread is"Thoughts on AR of the last couple of years". I've read this forum nearly daily since last early last fall coupled with performing many search functions since then. My use of the prior post directed at you was meant to be an example of what I see taking place here on AR too often.
We are all reading this forum with one common thread linking all of us. That is we have an interest in hunting African game and the rifles used to do so. Friendly banter is one thing back biting is another.
Let us enjoy the leadwood fire, the iced spirits, and continue to relive the hunts in the spirit Saeed intended AR be used for. Al P. IV

I have been coming to this site for a long time (longer even that officially noted because of previous site upgrades!), and it clearly is the premier site on the web for hunters and for African hunters in particular. The knowledge level of the posters is unsurpassed on any other site I know of, and people who post BS here will be called on it and pretty quickly. The same is true for most any board on this site.

It is appropriate for us to express our appreciation to Saeed who provides this very special site. There is no, or very little censorship. An extraordinary scope of discussion of issues is presented. And, for the most part, we get along.

We have had trolls and drolls and lived through the experience. We have had southern USA ant hills blown into Alpine peaks. Perhaps most disturbingly some posters have posted unnecessarily nasty and abrasive remarks that are very personal. In sum, this site mirrors pretty accurately the un-gentility of our society.

I don't have to agree with you, but our differences on rifles, calibers, ph's, or political candidates is no excuse not to treat one another with respect. I may not tolerate your position on an issue, but that provides no basis for attacking you personally. If I cannot attack your position without a personal attack on you, then it reflects adversely on the position that I espouse for it must not have much merit.

Over the several years that I have posted here, my hunting has evolved from plains game hunting, to dangerous game hunting. I am grateful to those who have shared their experiences on plains game and on dangerous game (and on small caliber rifles and reloading.) It would be unfriendly not to share my experiences as I have acquired them, and I have done so.

I, like so many here, am not an agent for any interest, and do not speak about things that I have not experienced. I will call a spade a spade. And this is what makes this site so valuable.

Again, many thanks to Saeed for providing this very special site and for all the many posters here who have educated me on so many relevant topics from powders to digital video editing. Kudude

ALP#4

As you ARE probably aware, S-H sold these "non-existant" hunts in question on these public boards.

I myself was approached to buy one, but luckily had just booked a safari with another outfitter.

Any member here could have ended up in Bob's position of waiting close to FIVE YEARS (2001 or 2002 ?) for his money back.

Any "progress" payments/refunds to date for the extremely patient Bob ???


***

I agree with the spirit of AR comment.

But what about the members getting 'taken down' (IMO) by "pseudo PHs".

Not much goodwill for them.

NitroX,

What does my business between Urdubob and I have to do with you or anyone else for that matter?

I have nothing to hide on this matter and if anyone would like to know what has happened they can gladly do a search on AR. There they will see that I apologised in public on what happened.

What do you know of my and Urdubo'bs private conversation since then, there is no reason to discuss this private matter in public ?

BTW it was 2003 Urdubob, said yes to a plainsgame hunt instead of the buff hunt and it turned about to be a below standard hunt. So I did not steal his money instead he got a below standard hunt that we and him still have to make final arrangements on how I will repay him not for money that I stole but for a bad hunt!

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

This thread and the reactions to the comments might just be as much about the character of the poster ie an agent that took money for hunts, never delivered on the hunt and never re-paid the deposit for the hunt not delivered.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Safari-Hunt:
NitroX,

What does my business between Urdubob and I have to do with you or anyone else for that matter?

What do you know of my and Urdubo'bs private conversation since then, there is no reason to discuss this private matter in public ?

BTW it was 2003 Urdubob, said yes to a plainsgame hunt instead of the buff hunt and it turned about to be a below standard hunt. So I did not steal his money instead he got a below standard hunt that we and him still have to make final arrangements on how I will repay him not for money that I stole but for a bad hunt!

---------------

Yeah. More comforting words, S-H.

You come on this Forum - African Big Game (public, sorta), you're 'in the business' then want to take things "private", no one else's business??

One of the reasons for this Forum, enjoyed, is open discussion on all matters. 2003 and this is now 2007? H'mmm. I can understand why you want "privacy" so much.

ALPO#4, CATS, whoever,,,book a hunt with him, send him your money and then post us a report.

BTW, Saeed, thanks.

DB

Am I incorrect or is the theme of this thread
"Thoughts on AR the last couple of years"?
My thoughts though time constricted are what a pity a few posters seem more interested in slurs and argument than anything else. Knowing Saeed allows nearly unrestricted posting seems to allow alter egos to take control of their keyboards.

quote:

Originally posted by ALP#4:
Knowing Saeed allows nearly unrestricted posting seems to allow alter egos to take control of their keyboards.

Sorry ALP#4

My command in English is not what I wish. The same with Latin. But I don't understand "alter ego" in the last sentence?
For the rest, sure there are many dogfights but most of the posts call for passion, not for reason.

Jean: Not to worry my friend, your english is fine and just as easy to read as the "alter personalities" (some people have more names than CATS have lives) that unfortunately continue to infest this great place. Most of us come here to learn, share real stories and make good friends like you. I guess we must put up with the bad, but the rewards are worth it. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Jean: Not to worry my friend, your english is fine and just as easy to read as the "alter personalities" (some people have more names than CATS have lives) that unfortunately continue to infest this great place. Most of us come here to learn, share real stories and make good friends like you. I guess we must put up with the bad, but the rewards are worth it. jorge

thanks Jorge, not sure I might deserve such friendly words. I like You optimism. Good luck!
jean

I used to be a regular poster and reader here. This thread is a prime example of why I am around very little anymore. This bullshit seems to have spilled over from the political forum and I have much better things to do with my time than to dig through piles of crap to find the treasures.
I have thanked Saeed several times over the years for this site. Short of banning trouble makers or deleting their posts, I don't see how he can stop all the sniping that goes on around here. He has more patience than I do!

Okay, let's get back on topic! With regards to plains game, in addition to my elephant, I have added Bush Buck, and Water Buck to my list. Which would you prefer and why?

quote:

Originally posted by ALP#4:
Am I incorrect or is the theme of this thread
"Thoughts on AR the last couple of years"?

My thought is that trolls like CATS/wynnwood do a lot of harm to the forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Safari-Hunt:
NitroX,

What does my business between Urdubob and I have to do with you or anyone else for that matter?

I have nothing to hide on this matter and if anyone would like to know what has happened they can gladly do a search on AR. There they will see that I apologised in public on what happened.

What do you know of my and Urdubo'bs private conversation since then, there is no reason to discuss this private matter in public ?

BTW it was 2003 Urdubob, said yes to a plainsgame hunt instead of the buff hunt and it turned about to be a below standard hunt. So I did not steal his money instead he got a below standard hunt that we and him still have to make final arrangements on how I will repay him not for money that I stole but for a bad hunt!

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

This thread and the reactions to the comments might just be as much about the character of the poster ie an agent that took money for hunts, never delivered on the hunt and never re-paid the deposit for the hunt not delivered.

I don't want to post more on this thread however I wish to make a comment as a reply.

It IS "UrduBob's" fight and if he isn't bringing it up, then it is none of my business so I prefer to back out. However the whole business was public here on AR, so it is not a private matter.

Frederik, as you remember I once defended you when you went on honeymoon and UrduBob choose that exact time to ask you all sorts of difficult questions. I remember saying, it is unfair to question him on things rightfully or wrongfully when you know he is away for a couple of weeks.

I don't remember you telling me it was none of my business back then.

Secondly after that UrduBob and I had a private conversation.

quote:

BTW it was 2003 Urdubob, said yes to a plainsgame hunt instead of the buff hunt and it turned about to be a below standard hunt. So I did not steal his money instead he got a below standard hunt that we and him still have to make final arrangements on how I will repay him not for money that I stole but for a bad hunt!

I think you KNOW there is other money involved????

But that is Bob's business so no more on that.

As for "saying sorry" and my character reference, I must say I was disgusted by a comment you made last year in Johannesburg and it showed to me you have no shame and have not learned any lessons from your past mistakes.

You can check out another thread on this African forum about "tipping and affected friendship" to see that if you wish.

***

ALP#4

Everyone knows you are a troll, either old Cats/Wynwood/CharlieMcwillaims/Terrence etc, or perhaps someone completely different (and yes we know whom).

Please stop trying to stir up issues and provoke members. Some of us wish to pursue more constructive topics.

***

Edited to add:

I'm definitely signing out of this thread now. Prefer to move onto more constructive pursuits like the "crater"!

Ain't it funny how the "peddlers" here (so many) want to use this forum for their own ends, ohh so sweet it is, so free,,,but, hit a bump and then want go 'private'? No one elses business they sometimes say, you all see the wisdom in this, no doubt?

Ain't it funny how a few "sacred cows" in the past have been questioned, tagged and brought to task, then have cut and run when before they were, literally the "Untouchables, The Unquestionables" with knowledge and experience beyond most mere mortals. "I've killed 100's of cape buff, etc.". "I know Harry Selby and that push feed .458 mag of his",,, ad nauseum.

Ain't it funny how some peddlers here cannot answer simple, direct questions about bad hunts or travel gone tits up and "whatcha gonna do bout that"?

Then there's the "I'm gonna pay ya later" gang like "Wimpy" in Popeyes.

To wit a few;
S-H
Ray
PVT
Balla "land claims"

All of the "Brown Lipstick" group.

Then, a few of the above seek the refuge of "My Attorney will be in touch", when before that,,,they openly eschewed lawyers. Hated them, didn't need them,,, A Man's word is his Bond, you see....yeah? A Contract ain't worth the papaer it's written on, etc. The, up pops the devil.

Then we have those who wonder about "the hate" (what hate?). And those who have had their "day ruined by this"(get a life) and have to go back to the desk and the mundane (dream on), believe and it will come.

Caveat Emptor, Ladies and Gents, and beyond references, know who those references are and what their vested interest might be. It's your money, ask Sheephunter. And a few others, too.

DB

A settlement is in the works....When my greivence is sattisfied I will post that frederick has made restitution.


What I have ask for would be the daily rate for 3 days of hunting......My tip to the PH's (all of them) totaled more that that.

I did have some good hunting(three days), but lost three days due to traveling in RSA and poor planning. I shot several animals and am happy to pay for them. I am not asking for any money back on the substandard accomodations (two days plus two days of legitment travel).

I will grant that Safri-Hunt may have been mislead by the outfitter....I also agree with John .... I did lose more than just money . My interest were not looked after. Fredrick offered me a discounted hunt for 2007, ........but I am not really interested at this time.

I do accept his appology. I have been waiting for an offer.....I just threw that out to put this matter to bed.

I thank all who have posted ... When I recieve my small setlement this matter will be closed forever.

urdubob

P.S. the one thing that really burns my a$$ is my 38.5 inch male gemsbuck was swithched for a 34...I never bothered to put it up..... it sits in a box out in the barn.

PSS I appoligise to you all.

quote:

Originally posted by Safari-Hunt:
NitroX,

What does my business between Urdubob and I have to do with you or anyone else for that matter?

I see no reason why people cannot share their African hunting experiences here, whether good or bad. And there is an especially good reason to do it if the outfitter has used AR for free advertising.

It astonishes me that an outfitter would think he can use AR for free advertising but wants to silence someone whose hunt did not go as planned.

I think we all benefit from both the positive and the negative reports. Sometimes I learn a lot more from the hunts that go awry than from the ones that go perfectly.

And if we were to be prohibited from speaking up about a hunt gone wrong, would we also be prohibited from talking about equipment that was unsatisfactory? Would be be banned from speaking of rifles that jammed and bullets that did not penetrate?

quote:

Originally posted by Dungbeetle:
Ain't it funny how the "peddlers" here (so many) want to use this forum for their own ends, ohh so sweet it is, so free,,,but, hit a bump and then want go 'private'? No one elses business they sometimes say, you all see the wisdom in this, no doubt?

Ain't it funny how a few "sacred cows" in the past have been questioned, tagged and brought to task, then have cut and run when before they were, literally the "Untouchables, The Unquestionables" with knowledge and experience beyond most mere mortals. "I've killed 100's of cape buff, etc.". "I know Harry Selby and that push feed .458 mag of his",,, ad nauseum.

Ain't it funny how some peddlers here cannot answer simple, direct questions about bad hunts or travel gone tits up and "whatcha gonna do bout that"?

Then there's the "I'm gonna pay ya later" gang like "Wimpy" in Popeyes.

To wit a few;
S-H
Ray
PVT
Balla "land claims"

All of the "Brown Lipstick" group.

Then, a few of the above seek the refuge of "My Attorney will be in touch", when before that,,,they openly eschewed lawyers. Hated them, didn't need them,,, A Man's word is his Bond, you see....yeah? A Contract ain't worth the papaer it's written on, etc. The, up pops the devil.

Then we have those who wonder about "the hate" (what hate?). And those who have had their "day ruined by this"(get a life) and have to go back to the desk and the mundane (dream on), believe and it will come.

Caveat Emptor, Ladies and Gents, and beyond references, know who those references are and what their vested interest might be. It's your money, ask Sheephunter. And a few others, too.

DB

very well said!

"Brown Lipstick Group"......outstanding!

man 500 has become quite the source of controversy these days, I guess people don't like hearing the truth, I for one find 500's investigative nature entertaining and informative, lets see there was the whole von tonder/atkinson debacle, and then some idiot sex offender was outed in AK by 500, I am sure there are more but these 2 come to mind. these are the things that make the forums interesting, exposeing someones bullshit and self egrandizement for all to see is something to behold

quote:

Originally posted by N'gagi:
Okay, let's get back on topic! With regards to plains game, in addition to my elephant, I have added Bush Buck, and Water Buck to my list. Which would you prefer and why?

I like bushbuck -- love bushbuck country. Heavy brush/cover. Animals that use similar cover, or that like cover, such as kudu and mountain reedbuck are also on my list of animals that I'm fond of.

Then even very common animals, springbuck -- I love the way their hair stands up and the scent they produce right after they've been taken. The tears that red hartebeest shed reflexively after dieing are startling. The eyelashes of black wildebeest are neat -- but its the hunting of the animals that like cover that's fun. The more open field animals offer challenging stalks as well... I have good memories of the stalk in my impala.

Dan

This is over ..frederick has sent my small settlement.

I wish to thank him.

urdubob

My pleasure, Jay