Just curious, how far apart are your softs and solids printing and at what ranges. Not really an issue for me because I'll only need solids for elephant, which is unlikely on this trip, and ranges would be so close it wouldn't matter. That said, it's weird that my .416 isn't picky on softs and puts different makes very close to each other, but solids not so much. Anybody have thoughts on why?

I built a 416 Rigby Improved.

I used 105 grains of H4350 and Federal 215 primers.

Very first group tried was Trophy Bonded Bear Claw 400.

3 shots were cutting each other.

Took the same cases, sized them and primed them.

Same charge.

Loaded Barnes Super Solids brass bullets.

Fired them at the same target.

All six were 0.7”!

Stopped right there and went hunting.

Shot several lions, elephants, buffalo and many plains game with this load.

But did the softs and solids shoot in the same place?

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
But did the softs and solids shoot in the same place?

Yes.

3 Bear Clays and 3 Super Solids all went into one group 0.7”.

Same load of 105 grains of H4350 I used in a 416 Weatherby Magnum before.

That Weatherby was not as accurate as this home made rifle.

I think I was getting between 1.5-2.0 groups with all bullets in the Weatherby.

Still, shot elephants, buffalo and many plains game with it.

Not a single miss.

Just goes to show that extreme accuracy is not required for a safari.

Only time it comes in handy is crocodile hunting where one needs precise bullet placement.

quote:

That said, it's weird that my .416 isn't picky on softs and puts different makes very close to each other, but solids not so much. Anybody have thoughts on why?

Copper jackets or mono-metals?

Bear Claws are solid shank copper with lead.

Barnes Super Solids were brass

I've had great luck with CEB solids. I've been able to get nearly identical POA/POI with a .375 H&H with 300gr CEB Solids and both 275gr CEB Raptors and 300gr Swift A-frames.

I think it depends . Personally, I do not reload . If I shoot the same brand and more or less the same shape bullet, they are very close . Different brand and different shapes have differed for me but not by much .

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I think it depends . Personally, I do not reload . If I shoot the same brand and more or less the same shape bullet, they are very close . Different brand and different shapes have differed for me but not by much .

I do the same. I use factory ammo and try a few until I get a fit. My winchester safari rifle is pretty good with keeping them together. If it fits and I have my open sights det, then I buy enough for a couple of years.

I only carry solids because of Elephant in the field. They are very accurate at twenty yards

in my CZ550 458. I load 80 gr of AA2230 with Fed 215 primer, Norma brass and find with this load the 420 CEB Raptor and the 400 grain .700 solid both shoot within 3/4 inch at 25 yards

Lavaca,
Yes, For example, it is not hard to get the CEB Safari Raptor and Safari Solid to shoot to the same POI. I do it.
Happy haunting, Brian

My .416 Hoffman shoots 400 grain TSX’s into 0.80” at 100 yards. Same with Bearclaws. So, to see how it’d group different bullets I shot TSX & Bearclaws together and got same group again. Then I shot a 5-shot group with one each of a TSX, Bearclaw, A Frame, Cutting Edge solid, all 400 grains and finally a 370 grain Cutting Edge Raptor. Group size was 1.25”. All bullets are shot with the same load of 79.0 grains of RL15 & Federal 215 primer.

My .375 H&H is similar, except that it shoots slightly better groups of .75”. It groups TSX, Bearclaws, A Frames and Cutting Edge solids into 1.10” groups. Load is 70.0 grains of RL15, Federal 215 primer.

I’ve never experimented with other loads in either rifle to see how small I can get groups. They’re both ‘minute of buffalo’ so I simply tried that one load in each and it was plenty good enough for me.

Perhaps I’m simply fortunate to have accurate rifles that are not finicky. But it seems that most properly built and bedded heavier caliber rifles seem to not be as picky as smaller, faster cartridges. My .02 worth.

I shoot softs ( Barnes TSX 300 gn ) and solids ( currently North Fork 300 gn ) in only my 375 H&H rifles, a Blaser R93 and Win M70. I handload all ammo so have to experiment to get both softs and solids shooting to the same POI which is out to at least 100 if not 200 yds. Mostly I can stay with the same powder for both bullets but IIRC charge weights differ to achieve the objective. Due to this velocities also differ somewhat and again, IIRC, the solids tend to be a bit slower if charge weights are the same. If I can get POI to within an inch of each bullet at the desired distancd I call that the same POI. All brass us Norma anx primers Federal 215 Magnum.
Very recently I tried some Cutting Edge Safari Raptors 275 gn for the furst time in my Win M70. So far just a couple of simple ladder loads checking for velocities and pressure. Looks like with RL15 and Staball 6.5 that the 100 yds POI will be the same as Barnes TSX 300 gn.

I went through that whole process last year with Barnes 300 TSX 375 HH and Barnes Solids. I reload so I had to tweak the loads to get them to print very close.

I don't reload anymore and factory softs and solids of the same make don't print in the same place at 100 yds with my rifle. Not so much a problem at 25 yds or under. Just curious.

Actually, today this is a pointless exercise.

As the only time a solid is called for is on elephant.

And elephants are shot at very close range, so it makes no practical difference.

The point of my last post. Just curious if the engineers and and experts could explain why they don't print the same. Guess I'm bored

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
The point of my last post. Just curious if the engineers and and experts could explain why they don't print the same. Guess I'm bored

Guns.

Almost as bad as women.

Will drive crazy for their lack of logic!

I have no idea how many different rifles I have shot, but I bet quite a few more than most.

If you want to have fun, try regulating a double, and see how close you can get both barrels to print!

I remember my old friend Walter, actually sweating in an air conditioned room!

Swearing in several languages!

Speaking of doubles, I just got back from a safari in Tanzania.

I took a .470 N.E. double rifle and a .375 H&H Mag. bolt rifle.

At 50 yards, the double would print 500 grain softs and solids within one inch.

At 100 yards, the bolt rifle would print 300 grain softs and solids within 2 inches.

I loaded 370 grain Northfork softpoints for my first cartridge fired with my .416 Rem on Buffalo followed by 370 Northfork flat pointed solids' They printed within half inch at a hundred yards. That combo worked perfectly for me in the Selous. RL-15 powder with Federal 215 Match primers. 3 X 9 Ziess Conquest scope. Good Shooting.

Guys,

Softs and solids often don't shoot to the same POI because with the same powder charge the solid will be faster.(I can't explain that) Look at any loading manual. Normally you'll need to back off the solid load by a couple grains and it will draw the softs and solids into an acceptable group.

Mark

I found this is hard to achieve with most factory ammo, especially if the solids and softs are loaded by different companies who utilize different brass/powder/primers.

But this is a relatively simple task for reloaders. I'll be using 400gr A-frames for Buff and 400gr CEB Safari solids for elephant. Because I could run into either while out in the valley, I really need both loads to have the same POA/POI.

I needed to load the solid with almost a full-grain less Varget to achieve identical POA/POI.

It is similar to regulating a double, trying to get softs and solids to shoot to the same point of aim, but if I still reloaded, I could work that out. I don't anymore. But as Saeed points out, I only need solids for elephant and at those ranges, it makes little difference. As I said, it was a question posed out of curiousity more than anything.

The comment about the solids being faster than the softs is interesting, but I'm not sure why that would be the case. Like I say, not a real problem at 20 yards

I no longer take solids on safari.

Past few times we never found an elephant worth shooting in Tanzania where I go.

IF we do, I have absolutely no doubt that my Walterhog bullets, on a side brain shot, will drop an elephant just as any solid.

I can usually get the solid to be "close" to the soft load. Yes, that requires messing around at the reloading bench and then shooting them a bit... so what, I call that fun.

As to why to try and get them that close- if you want to kill some of the little antelope, a solid makes a heck of a lot less mess of them than a expanding bullet.

I agree that for elephant 2" at 100 yards is meaningless, as the shot is more like 6" at 20 yards, but trying to hit a dik dik with the solid is more like 2" at 50.

Somehow I always have the big rifle in my hands when some interesting target of opportunity shows up.

Saeed,

You pretty much confirmed that your Walterhogs are more like a solid than a soft. I've been looking through my ammunition and realized that my solids are Trophy Bonded Sledgehammers, which might group closer to Trophy Bonded Bearclaws than Swift A-Frames. I had great results with Bearclaws but got to Swifts for some reason (I think there may have been a fire). I also agree with Saeed, that I haven't seen a shootable bull in Tanzania since 2013. Just teenagers and cows, but they are testy now, I suspect due to the poaching. I've got an elephant on license this year, and while I don't think I'll see one worth shooting, I'm including a few solids. Mostly due to the cheeky cows.