I have reservations about ZIM, I spent a few days there this summer and would love to return and hunt. The people were wonderful. My buddy wants to celebrate his 60th birthday by going on his first African hunt in 07 or 08. I'm going with him. I know that Zim is the only place where he could possibly swing a Buffalo hunt, but I'm concerned that the Country's infrastructure will have totally collapsed by then. I don't want to take a chance with his first African experience so we'll probably book a plains game hunt elsewhere. It's a shame.

TerryR

Terry,

I would just take my time and see what is happpening...I also would tell your intended
safari operator that you want to keep money state side in escrow..
I still think about the native families trying to hang on in Zim and not be pushed out of their country...

Mike

Mike

The spiraling economy/inflation is a concern, but remember the safari industry in zim is practically 100% founded on the USD for currency.

Fuel is being purchased by the larger operators in volume from neighboring countries (with USD)... the only minor hiccups i see inflation inpacting for safari operators are labor (not really a concern) and the few local goods they pick up with local currency.

Save for all-out rioting in the streets, IMO - poaching is a bigger concern for someone planning a zim hunt. you have to make sure your outfitter has not been impacted too badly by poachers. the once tough anti-poaching laws in zim are now largely uninforced and that is causing operators more problems than fuel or currency stability.

I'll be hunting buffalo in Zimbabwe in July. Life is full of risks. This one is not much worse than many others.

I knew people that would wet themselves thinking about going to Venezuela to go peacock bass fishing for fear of the Chavez regime. We lived there, fished there, went places that other people said would be almost certain death. All the bullshit made us nervous, and that's about all to be gained by telling each other ghost stories.

A friend who was born and raised in Zimbabwe, and goes back each year to visit family says there should be no problem with hunts, trophies, guns; and he's a hunter. I accept his advice as being valid.

Terry,

Tell your buddy that there's nothing like celebrating your 60th bday in hunting camp! I did it last month in the Save in Zim, complete with the authentic sounds of African camp staff singing 'Happy Birthday' in both English and Shona. Sure beats the insincere sounds of a wait staff in an American restaurant.

I put a large escrow with my agent, Ron Oliver, and had absolutely no problems with paying what was left in travelers checks.

I saw no evidence of problems; of course, we were quite insulated being so far from cities, and from other inhabitants as far as that goes.
On the trips through Harare coming and going we saw all the crowds, etc. Reminded me somewhat of Havana without the magnificent architecture.

Just watch what you're doing, check with Ganyana as the time approaches, and have a GREAT time !

quote:

Originally posted by PostDriver:

Tell your buddy that there's nothing like celebrating your 60th bday in hunting camp!

I shall be happy to celebrate my death in a hunting camp, rather than in a hospital or a nursing home.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
It looks like the ice cream business has dulled your mind!

Has it really? It looks like a handful of guided African hunts has gone to your head. Self professed Africa expert no doubt!

quote:

It's about getting what you pay for.

Why would anyone want to go on a $80K lion hunt in Tanz and walk away with only a buff and leopard, when he could get buff, leopard, lion and elephant in Zim for $45K???

What are you talking about? There are dozens of Tz hunts under $45K where buff, leop, lion, elephant and a whole lot more are obtainable. Probably just as many as in Zim or real close.

quote:

So it's not just about dollars. It's also about having a successful hunt. Tanzania does nothing to keep the sharks out of the business. Zim does a much better job of it.

Correction needed here. ZIM USED TO DO A BETTER JOB

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Consequently, there are a lot of guys getting ripped off in Tanzania. (And there are also guys getting good hunts, if they do their homework and find a good operator.)

And you assure me that this statement is not applicable to Zim? Or RSA. Or anywhere else for that matter?

quote:

Maybe your efforts would be better spent cleaning up the Tanzania safari industry rather

Don't you worry, i am doing my part The fastest way to do this is by "educating" the clients first to be able to differentiate between the good and the bad and as it has been proven to me regularly on these forums, that is suprisingly difficult.

Happy hunting!

quote:

than sniping at other forumites on AR.

That coming from you! Wow apart from being naive it seems you are also a hypocrite.

All this nonsense about "we feed the starving natives with our $ and meat" is pure romanticism. They know how to look after themselves don't you worry.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Gerry,Cats,

I too believe you are taking a chance booking Zim but it can't be denied that you are going to probably get the most DG hunting for your buck there. Is it worth the chance you take? That has to be up to the individual. Any third world country can be dangerous but there are areas of the US that frighten me way more.

Another thing to consider is that Tanzania closed safari hunting in the past and just recently Zambia closed and reopened plus Botswana seems to be on its way slowly to closure. So it appears any of the more common hunting country could end up closed and your safari plans ruined.

I'd love to send every safari to Tanzania but the fact remains that it is expensive to hunt there and is out of reach of a lot of first time safari hunters.

In my case I think I have given it enough time that I feel pretty safe in rebooking Zim with a well established company. It would seem that many on this board feel the same.

Mark

I can well remember losing a deposit in Tanzania in 1973, when they shut things down. Approx 4 weeks before departure, plane tickets bought and etc. The gov't company TWS was holding the money, never saw a dime from them in the 30 plus years of socialist commie gov't. At the time I made the deposit I had no worries, but it still went to hell in a hand basket. The loss and missing out on a hunt probably hurt worse than than a loss in Zim would today. Just got back Thanksgiving and would go again making 4 to Zim in recent years. All the bad stuff isn't just happening today!

Hunting in Ethiopia closed without warming in August of 1993. None of our clients lost any deposits. Some folks (old friends and repeat clients mostly) agreed to roll their safaris until things reopened. Those who didn't we were able to pay back. When hunting reopened in 1997, we rescheduled everyone who had hung on. Today, we keep all deposits in an escrow account in the USA until app. 60 days prior to the scheduled safari. This is a comforatable set up both for the client and for us. Don't know how it would work for Zim. operators. Depends on if they have to have the deposits for day to day expenses I guess.

Rich Elliott

Amen 500 Grains!

Mark:

I never meant to suggest that no one should hunt Zimbabwe today. I have said it before and will say it again _ From reading your posts, if I were a first time hunter to Africa, I would want to book with you - and I mean that. I read the posts by guys after me and I am encouraged by them. The problem remains. Can hunters get into the bush and get out with their trophies? ( When I left Zimbabwe in 1993, the Customs/Immmigration officer stuck out his hand and gave me a flashing smile and said he hoped I would come back. If that's the same attitude today, then I would hope that people go to Zimbabwe. {I even read less than five days ago that Zimbabwe is overrun with elephants! That should encourage some guys!)

gerry375, not quite like my expereince last fall when leaving from Vic Falls. The SAA agent said my luggage was over weight and I acted stupid (natural thing to do) for a few minutes and he said first offence I could go forward. The luggage weighed less than going over by the way.

Die Ou Jagter:

Never to Victoria Falls even though I was within a short plane hop. I flew out of Zimbabwe at Harare. ( I hate to have to admit this because I loved the country - but I found myself waiting in a room at the airport where the people were definitely not hunting types leaving the country. The SAA plane from Johannesberg was very late -and not due for hours. I found myself at the bar swapping lies with SA Boer and English businessmen. (I much enjoyed, an an Irishman, insulting both!) I did notice that the locals were helping themselves to the bar stock and shortly became as drunk as anyone! (Me, being American, figured I should be at least half way sober to board the plane!) I have to tell you that I had an African experience that was simply great from beginning to end!

I would have loved to have hunted Zim but would not do so now. My thought is that, although I feel sorry for the PH's who are still there, to hunt there is to contribute to the economy of the most corrupt and tyranical dictator in southern Africa. I believe it will be only a matter of time before other PH's are forced out.

I received the following regarding Zimbabwe:
From The Financial Gazette, 5 January
Ex-Zanu PF man denied US visa
Njabulo Ncube, Chief Political Reporter

The United States (US) has denied suspended former Zanu PF Matabeleland North provincial chairman Jacob Mudenda a visa to attend a high-profile safari trade fair in Nevada amid revelations Washington is mooting a ban on trophy hunting in Zimbabwe by its citizens. Sources said the American refusal to grant Mudenda a visa was part of efforts to fully implement targeted travel and financial sanctions slapped on President Robert Mugabe and officials in his party and government after he controversially won the 2002 presidential elections against Morgan Tsvangirai of the Movement for Democratic Change. The US, which regards Zimbabwe as a rogue state and "an outpost of tyranny", has put in place stringent visa requirements for Zimbabweans seeking to enter that country. Mudenda, suspended by the Zanu PF presidium together with five other provincial chairpersons in 2004 after the ill-fated Tsholotsho meeting, and who is the newly elected chairman of the amalgamated Safari Operators Association of Zimbabwe, is on the US travel sanctions list. The list includes President Mugabe, his family and a majority of his Cabinet ministers. Sources told The Financial Gazette that Mudenda intended to fly to the US with other stakeholders in the country’s lucrative safari sector to attend the annual hunting and safari showpiece in Nevada. Efforts to contact Mudenda yesterday proved fruitless. A secretary at his Bulawayo law firm said he was still on holiday.

It has emerged that indigenous safari and hunting concession operators unaffected by the sanctions were duly issued with visas and are due to attend the trade fair as well as exhibit and sell some of their wares in the US. Most of the safari operators will leave Zimbabwe on January 15. Players in the safari sector expressed concern over the looming ban the US wants to impose on its citizens, considered cash cows by the country’s wildlife industry. According to the industry players, US citizens comprise between 80 and 90 percent of the people who visit Zimbabwe for trophy hunting. "Although there is talk of shifting focus to Russia, the Russian hunters consist of a few elitists, while the Americans have created a large market of middle-class hunters with a lot of cash to spend on trophies," said a hunting expert. The proposals to ban trophy hunting in Zimbabwe by US citizens come barely two months after the US widened sanctions against President Mugabe’s ruling clique by including spouses and children of government and ruling party officials. US President George Bush issued an executive order last November to extend the economic sanctions net against Zimbabwean officials and froze more assets allegedly owned by President Mugabe’s cronies. The executive order also allows the US authorities to "block the property of additional persons undermining democratic processes or institutions in Zimbabwe, their immediate family members and any persons assisting them".

quote:

Originally posted by retreever:
That was the headline on inside of my newspaper.. The article said no long gas lines...there is no gas...being sold legally
and has not been any for 2 months..Govt has run out of foreign money needed to import gas..unemployment over 70%, inflation in November at 502%, and the US dollar which fetched $8 Zim dollars a decade ago is now worth $79,042 in Zim dolars..

Mike

I strongly believe that when Ian Smith was betrayed by England and the left wing presidency of Carter ,RHODESIA,falled in the hands of a terrorist occidental hater like Mugabe ,but i think that if we dont go there to hunt we are only maknig more damage to our friends the non communist people black and white .juan pablo pozzi ,md .

.

AlF:

I notice you're too cowardly to even indicate on what continent you live - but you sound like a cowardly resident of either Ottawa, Toronto or Vancouver. What the f..k do you mean about "appeasing the Americans"? About what? You apparently are one of those (so called) Canadians who love the English. Well, one of your Engish prime ministers (Harold MacMillan) said (right before the Brits bailed out of Africa as they did from India): "There's a new wind blowing through Africa". We didn't tell the English or their ass kissers like you to get out. If you felt so strongly about "Rhodesia", why didn't you go over there and fight for "Rhodesia"? The militia fighting in the bush against the savages who were wiping out lonely farms could have used real "heroes" like you!

Uh - Oh.....reminds me of my last wife. She always opened her mouth and put her foot in it before she attempted to get her facts right.....

.

Alf is right on the money on the geopolitical machinations that led to Rhodesia's downfall. And just for the record, the ONLY colonies the Brits were "thrown out" of were our own original thirteen. Everywhere else they left of thier own accord, albeit pressured by us and I think wrongly so. We have this romantic notion that we can turn the rest of the world into clones of the US without taking into account whi lives there. Evry country in Africa, even those colonized by the Belgians who were pretty ruthless, were bytter off under colonial rule than they are now. Zimbabwe is a great example. It was the "breadbasket" of Frica under Ian Smith and look at it now. Same for RSA before Apartheid. Give it a few years it'll wind up just like Zim. Some things are just not meant to be, not in Africa anyway. jorge

Sigh, the problem has always been that the western world has always tried to apply western solutions to African problems..... and it doesn't work.

I'm a Brit myself so it pains me to say that we let the Rhodesians down terribly when we allowed the elections to be free and fair........ the Rhodesians said if Mad Bob gets power, it will be one man, one vote, once - and they were dead right......shame they didn't have the balls to stand by Mr Smith.........

This thread seems to kind of be all over the place but I believe one of the concerns about booking Zimbabwe was loosing your deposit. I don't know about you guys but I want my money to be secure. We are only representing one company in Zim and all your money stays Stateside until just before the safari. Actually the money is the only thing we really have direct control over. The rest of the safari and all it entails can go sideways at a moments notice although it is not likely to. The point is if loosing your deposit is your major concern about booking Zimbabwe it doesn't need to be.

Mark

Truely, how safe for hunters is the Zimbabwe connection? I would like to hunt there once before it goes tits up and is totally destroyed as a hunting destination. I usually take my wife and trust me on this, If she didn't make it back it would make me money. I am booked for a 14 day elephant hunt with Peter Chipman for 2007. Zimbabwe is one destination I would like to make in 2006 for buffalo and plains game. I just need a decent go at it in good conscience.

quote:

Read Ken Flower's Serving Secretly and you will learn of the betrayal from White South Africa.

Hi ALF & other esteemed guests

I have always said and I say again, one of the most dangerious ANIMALS in Africa and in fact the WORLD is a WHITE LIBERAL ... often he can be worse than a black nationalist when the truth is told ...

I arrest my case (-:

Oh in passing,

I have a free plane ticket from USA to Africa reserved for comrade Kissinger so he can go over there to view the results of his decisions

Cheers Peter