I'm just curious. Which are the benefits of booking through an agent? Which are his/hers responsibilities? Does one pay extra when booking through an agent or are the agents money drawn from the PH's/Outfitter's profit?

I have never found the need to use a booking agent, however, for someone new to Africa with no other experienced friends to assist, a booking agent can help cut through most of the confusion and headaches.

Some of the smaller booking agents today only rep one or two outfitters. They are not to be confused with a travel agent who gets paid regardless where you go. You are going to hunt with who they represent and with who they have a business relationship with so you have very limited hunting alternatives. In addition, some of the smaller outfitters relying on booking agents are generally not the most desirable operations.

Don�t get me wrong, there is nothing bad about using a booking agent. Using them generally does not drive up the cost of the hunt. Having someone in the States to coordinate your air travel and your activities in Africa is not a bad thing. However, many travel consolidators do the same thing AND provide you with great deals on air travel costs.

It is generally best to establish a budget, the species of animals you desire, THEN shop around for an outfitter or booking agent who meets your criterion.

Post modified after review. Not enough coffee this morning and first draft too general.

[ 06-02-2003, 23:18: Message edited by: Zero Drift ]

Zero Drift, I have to disagree with your post. You are wrong ... dead wrong.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zero Drift:
"Most booking agents today only rep one or two outfitters."

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Not true. I have plenty of operations to choose from.

quote:

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Originally posted by Zero Drift:
"You are going to hunt with who they represent and with who they have a business relationship with so you have very limited hunting alternatives."

---

Come on! There are a bunch of agents, each has different options. You talk to a few agents, find what you want. You buy it. No one says you are committed just because you call one of them.

quote:

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Originally posted by Zero Drift:
"In addition, the outfitters relying on booking agents are generally not the largest, most desirable operations."

---

That is the most rediculous things I have heard. Every operation in Africa relys on agents for some if not all of their hunts ... EVERY ONE!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zero Drift:
"Using them generally does not drive up the cost of the hunt by much (if at all)."

---

A good agent will never add anything to the cost of the hunt. I have had clients pay less because they used me. I can offer last minute deals to them if I know what they want. I will call or send an e-mail saying ... "Hey, there was a cancelation on a Lion, I know you really wanted to hunt this area."

I do not believe you and I have ever crossed each other, and I have never had a beef with you, nor do I want to, but I have to say, you really should not talk about things which you have no knowledge of.

[ 06-02-2003, 20:28: Message edited by: Wendell Reich ]

Oh, this is going to get interesting!!!!

I had too much coffee this morning. Makes me edgy.

Do not take it personally Zero, but you were talking about my livelihood. I felt an accurate answer was in order.

[ 06-02-2003, 20:25: Message edited by: Wendell Reich ]

Why use a booking agent?
When I need plumbing work I don't hire a barber.

I'll second Wendell on everything he has said and also JeffP's analogy.

Sure enough, you've all seen some damn good prices I've published here. They were offered by the outfitter through me, not their websites. In most cases you will pay less!

If it's about price well I have high roller outfitters and lower priced ones too. They all hunt the same properties in many cases. What do you want to pay? The choice is yours.

You want quality, well, that's all I've got!

Yes, by all means use a booking agent - they are so level headed - especially after their morning coffee.

Wendell - My comments were in general and I believe them to be accurate. I was certainly not speaking for you or about you. Nor were my comments directed towards anyone else around here, nor were my comments meant to interfere in the commerce of any booking agent around were, nor were my comments intended to destroy the booking agent industry or otherwise slight these fine, hardworking Americans. However, I have been hunting in Africa for over 14 years and I know more than a handful of booking agents and a whole bunch of PHs in RSA, Zim, & Tanzania.

The bottom line of my post is - you don�t need to go through a booking agent to hunt in Africa. Like anything else, you must be very careful selecting a booking agent if you decide this is best of you. If you know what you are doing, you can negotiate pricing without the need for a booking agent.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with using an agent. If you find a good one, they can (and do) add a lot of value for a novice hunter. They take a lot of the mystery and headaches out of the equation.

Sorry to step on your toes so early in the morning. Next time I will wait until the afternoon so your caffeine buzz wears off. I'll be more specific and careful with my advice when it comes to booking agents for now on; promise.

[ 06-02-2003, 21:12: Message edited by: Zero Drift ]

So far the "pro-booking agent" replies have come from booking agents, which might give rise to some skepticism.

I am not a booking agent but have scheduled hunts both ways--with and without an agent.

I recommend using an agent.

It just makes sense to have someone on this side of the pond to call on for assistance when things go wrong.

Many agents hold funds until just before (and in some cases, after) your safari. I'm not suggesting an overseas operator wouldn't provide a refund if appropriate, but the simple fact is, getting money back from Africa can be problematic at best. Personally, I would not ship U.S. dollars to Africa and expect to see them again--if I did I'd be grateful, but I just wouldn't count on it.

My question has always been, who does the booking agent represent? In my business (real estate) the term "agent" has legal meaning and I have fiduciary responsiblity to one party or another, and that relationship has to be disclosed in writing. But who does a safari booking agent represent--the hunter or the outfitter?

Whoever the booking agent represents, I think it's wise to have one. My non-agent hunt went fine and most will, but if it hadn't, to whom would I have turned for any hope of help?

1. Some of us do this full time. We study the areas, outfitters, politics,etc. on a daily basis to keep our clients informed.

2. Individual outfitters will tell you almost anything to promote their hunts over their competitors. Individual outfitters will offer you a biased opinion of why you should hunt with them, while agents like myself, Wendell, Ann and others offer you several options we think would best suit your interests, budget, etc.

3. There are over 5000 licensed professional hunters and apprentices in South Africa alone. Do most of you have the time to research who produces big trophies, who offers an affordable hunt, who has father/son specials, who takes the biggest Nyala in South Africa, who specialized in hunting small cats with hounds, etc. We do this full time and know the answers.

4. Several of the best and most well-known hunters rely solely on their agents. They are simply too busy hunting to have time to correspond with each and every client, not to mention each and every inquiry. If the outfitters are really good they should not have enough time to sit at their computer and send emails because they should be hard at hunting. I think if you look closely at some of the best professional hunters you will see that you can not even get a booking unless you go through one of their agents.

5. Many of us can offer some protection when it comes to deposits, wire transfers, make sure your money is safe, etc. Many of our outfitters realize that if they do not produce results and good times for our clients that we will not send them any more clients in the future.

The thing that I always find amusing is that you get certain individuals who have made one or two trips to Africa, maybe even shot one or two of the dangerous game species, who all of a sudden think they are serious professionals. Just because I brush my teeth every night I don't expect to know as much as a dentist would. Anyone can give advice, but there are few of us who can give you good advice, save you time, save you money, and send you on a phenomenal safari.

Sincerely,
John Barth
Adventure Unlimited, Inc.
safaris@trip.net

PS.- Zero Drift- If you have never used an agent how do you know the what the benefits are of using one? What makes you an expert on African hunting? Just curious.

There are always advantages and disadvantages to doing things different ways but I will say this. Using a reputable booking agent can save you a lot of hassle and nightmares, especially if you don't do all your homework, dot all your eyes and cross all of your tees. They will have already screened the outfits and operations and chances are, already physically been there.

You also have someone back in the states that you can leave payment with who will then forward the cost after the hunt. That is really a big issue when you consider the potential problems with carrying large amounts of currency in any form over seas.

Reputable booking agents can certainly save you lots of headaches as well as leg work.

John - I sent you a PM...

Wendell I agree with your assessment of the booking agent business 100%. Now where is my coffee?...


[ 06-02-2003, 21:57: Message edited by: Zero Drift ]

On my first trip to Arfica, my wife and I spent 02 days in Vic Falls, then flew to Harare to meet our PH. Somewhere along the line, we missed the PH. After waiting 01 hour in the airport, we took a shuttle to a hotel. I made a collect call to our booking agent here in the States. That was all it took to get things ironed out. Without the booking agent, a minor inconvenience could have been a major pain in the neck.

Also, I paid the booking agent the daily rate and trophy fees (plus some extra). It made settling up the account painless.

Kalle,

In my opinion it would be unwise for any African hunting novice to not use an agent for their first safari. As a client you just can't know all the things that you need to be aware off when booking a safari. A good agent will walk you through all the paperwork, travel concerns, all aspects of the actual hunt and help you get your trophies home. You want your safari to be fun so leave the headaches to an agent.

An agent takes his payment from the safari operator. His fee costs you nothing directly out of pocket.

Some of the agents here on this forum are so professional they even will give you good advise and help if you have booked directly with an outfitter. This strikes me as a touch of class and has convinced me that when I go back for DG I will use a booking agent that I discoved here and got help from here!!

So what's to stop someone who knows the system, has been there, done it,made the contacts and doesn't need an agent...... simply making out he is an agent, and booking his own hunt, thus saving himself the 15% agent's fees off his daily rates.
There are plenty of good outfits in Zimbabwe looking for booking agents who are more than willing to pay the 15%.
DJ.

DJ - It's sorta like buying a car. Once you know the system, anything is negotiable. You can negotiate with booking agents and you can negotiate with outfitters. There have been a lot of cancellations this year due to geopolitical events. Accordingly, many PH are hurting for clients at the moment, deals abound if you are willing to negotiate.

Also, if you wait till the end of the hunting season, September-October you can generally find some real bargains especially on dangerous game hunts. I hate paying retail for anything...

Wendell has made some good points. I would like to add from the agent perspective that your agent is first and foremost an information resource. You can always do the staff work yourself, but oftentimes it is easier to use a professional to save your time and money.

I know some people insist on clearing minefields themselves too.

Heck, I have called Wendell to ask questions, and he has returned the favor.

jim dodd

Wendel and the other agents make good points. So do the other posters.. A good agent is usually a wealth of information ................at no expense! Kind of hard to beat.

Hey, anyone can book a hunt/trip direct with an operator and IF they do their homework it can and probably will work out. However, in this business and I suspect the same in many other businesses that involves a number of variables, things may not always go as planned. One should ask them self the questions, "What if something goes wrong"? "Who can help me"?

I'd say your well established agent that has a good understanding of "how and what works" as well as a good relationship with the operator and has many other contacts within the bus. has far more financial leverage than he/she that books direct. The guided hunt world is a small one where reputation is everything and beleive me, if some one legitametely screws up, be it an operator or his ph or guide or trophy shippers or what ever other faucet, an agent likely has more pull than the one who books direct. Remember, these are humans that make these trips happen and people can change or make mistakes. Seems like one can always get more done if you know the right people or are better connected.

Just the fact that you can settle your account with the booking agent after the trip makes it worthwhile to use one. Plus they help sort out all the headache items like lost luggage, transfers, in-transit hotels etc. Not only that they will admire the average animals you shot and pat you on the back for the good ones.

BigB

I've been using booking agents for 27 years, and believe me they are worth their weight in gold. I sometimes book my trips 2 and 3 years ahead of time, and several times an agent has contacted me before my hunt was scheduled to take place, and I was advised that based on a recent visit to a particular camp or outfitter, they would suggest a different one, for various reasons. Sometimes the areas change, and the game you want may no longer be there. In one case, the outfitter was having some serious personal problems on the home front, and resorted to heavy drinking, and wasn't taking care of his clients the way he should have. On a couple of these occassions, the hunt with a different outfitter was even less expensive than the one I originally booked. I'll keep using booking agents-they've always done right by me.

Over the years and countless hunts I have found a "good" agent to a valuable asset to my hunting. Often times, they have leverage to be used if need be, and can also negotiate better deals than I could for myself. I use an agent for all of my African hunting and have yet to see how using them has done anything but make the trip and it's planning more stress/trouble free.

I have to side with Keith on this one. Ive had agents and outfitters make mistakes but the well established agent has more stroke than you do anytime. I also like to be able to leave my trophy fee money here and only carry tip money to africa.

DJ,

I don't think many PH will give you the 15% they pass along to the booking agent.

I have spoken at length with several PH about this subject.

Actually, you might work a deal with a booking agent which will give you better value at the end of the hunt than you would have saved by getting that 15% back.

From a PH/outfitter perspective, an agent can be a two edged sword. Sure, a good one will bring you extra business and make your marketing so much easier. However for every 1 good agent out there, you will find several who are either just after a cheap hunt for themselves and know bugger all about the industry, or will talk total tosh to your prospective clients and promise them the un-deliverable, or because they only know the industry from the outside will again mislead the client.

I'm not against agents at all, either full or part time ones, but they must be professional in their approach to BOTH the client and the PH/Outfitter and if they don't know the answer they should admit it and get the low down before they start talking total bo***cks.

I don't really do much business through agents as most of mine comes from word of mouth recommendation, (some og my clients have hunted 14 safaris with me) however I certainly wouldn't rule it out, and am always happy to pay the 10-15% they ask of camp fees when it happens....... so who want's a Tanzanian Buffalo hunt for $8500 including charters & trophy fee.......... tee hee!

Anybody that thinks they can research and find a good guide service in Africa on their own is a fool! Believe me I have booked two hunts on my own ( after hundreds of hours of research)My first hunt was with a well know outfitter in 1994 . Who specialized in " giving away "hunts to Safari Club. I was able to experienced the classical South African " Toyota Safari. " Hunting many small land owners properties. Never once did we hunt more than 50 yards from the toyota. The main problem was intense pressure to shoot any animal that walked in front of the toyota. After all that's how the outfitter made his money. When my horns were shipped to the US the outfitter added $450 to the freight bill. He also shipped my warthogs with out any paper work causing all my hides & horns to be confiscated upon arrival in the US ( this mistake alone cost 6 months & over $1000 to clear up )

Having learned from my first hunt. I though I was now "Experienced" and abel to ask all the right questions and of course find the right outfitter with a premium concession. After months of research I hit the jack pot. A well respected outfitter with one of the best buffalo concessions in africa. If fact a person from my town had hunted with him in the same concession killing a 46" bull with 18" boss, After many emails & phone calls I booked a 9 day "All Inclusive" buffalo hunt in one of the best concession in South Africa. When I arrived in South Africa I found there had been a "misunderstanding" My hunt had been sub contracted out to another outfitter in a totally different area. To make things worse the only legal ph could only hunt for 3 or 4 days.

Anybody who thinks they can save 15 % by booking direct will find out the real meaning of "Professional hunter"!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saeed:
[QB]DJ,

I don't think many PH will give you the 15% they pass along to the booking agent.

Saeed,
Sorry, but been there and done it mate.
Try it sometime, make up a booking agent name,pick a clutch of outfitters, tell them you are an agent, book your hunt...minus 15%. It really is very easy.
Think about it, how many hunters go to Africa,make their contacts, and return as booking agents? I know of several.
They are guaranteed one client.....themselves!
The main reason I did it, was because an agent who originally booked my first hunt , got his 15% fee on subsequent hunts despite the fact I did not book through him.( Apparently this is widespread practice in the industry).
DJ.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Robert johnson:

Robert,
You misunderstand me somewhat.
To book an area/outfit to hunt , COLD, is taking an unacceptable risk.
Question is,once you have been there, and learnt the ropes, do you still need an agent?
Mine is only a personal opinion, but think about it, for me, the 15% represented virtually the trophy fees for a cape buffalo.
How many hunters have sat by campfires and listened to horror stories about agents?
Read Shakari's thread, there are a lot more bad agents than good ones. In fact you run the same risk of picking a bad agent as you do picking a bad outfitter.
I am not knocking all sporting agents , or people who use them, I just choose not to, and as a bonus, I get a buffalo paid for. How bad is that?
DJ.

DJ,

I am still not sure why you need to pose as a booking agent to save a little cash? When I was shopping around (without the services of an agent) I found most places were negotiable to some degree.

Perhaps the best approach is to shop around yourself and get the best deal you can, then see if a booking agent can match it or beat it??

One thing I like about these forums is that you get a feeling/opinion for certain Agents and even PH's who post here and its is something which is built up over time rather than when you are just a prospective client. There are many folks here who although i have never met, i would be quite happy to have them arrange or host my hunt for me.

I guess conversly the agents/ph's also form a view of the perspective clients who post here and get an idea if they are going to be a pain in the ass or not!

Regards,

Pete

I'm interested in learning the answer to Nitro Express'question. To you booking agents, who do you owe a fiduciary responsibility, the hunter or the safari company?

Sure you can book directly with an outfitter but there is always problems to get hold of the outfitter and basically the agents get good prices and the 10-15% is not added on but basically included booking directly with an outfitter you pay the same price.

It all depends which agent you are using there are good ones and bad ones. What I always do is negotiate a price that will make both parties happy where if you book direct you will pay the normal rates.

There are too many outfitters and ph's around so you will have to start at some point for a reference. Most good agents sell for people who they know and have seen especially the whole setup.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Safari-Hunt:
[QB]Sure you can book directly with an outfitter but there is always problems to get hold of the outfitter .

Almost all decent outfitters have an office, staffed with relevant admin personnel to take care of and assist with any queries one may have, either over the phone, by Fax, by e mail or even in person.
DJ.

I have done both....But an agent offers a degree of safty. When you hunt the world it is worth every Penny.

The agent is only as good as the outfitter he sells for.

[ 06-06-2003, 22:35: Message edited by: urdubob ]

Moany of the best outfitters are too busy or don't want to be bothered by a lot of questions from hunters. That's why they contracted with a booking agent in the first place.

So basically it boils down to there not being any good reason not to use an agent and several excellent reasons why you should use a good booking agent.

Seems perfectly clear to me.

Joe.