This from the Telegraph 3/3/17...


Jacob Zuma calls for confiscation of white land without compensation

3 March 2017 • 8:24pm

President Jacob Zumahas called on parliament to change South Africa’s constitution to allow the expropriation of white owned land without compensation.

Mr Zuma, 74, who made the remarks in a speech yesterday/FRI morning, said he wanted to establish a “pre-colonial land audit of land use and occupation patterns” before changing the law.

“We need to accept the reality that those who are in parliament where laws are made, particularly the black parties, should unite because we need a two-thirds majority to effect changes in the constitution,” he said.

Mr Zuma, who has lurched from one scandal to another since being elected to office in 2009, has adopted a more populist tone since his ruling African National Congress (ANC) party suffered its worst election result last August since the end of apartheid in 1994.

The party lost the economic hub of Johannesburg, the capital Pretoria and the coastal city of Port Elizabeth to the moderate Democratic Alliance party, which already held the city of Cape Town.

The ANC is also under pressure from the radical Economic Freedom Fighters, led by Julius Malema.

Mr Malema has been travelling the country urging black South Africans to take back land from white invaders and "Dutch thugs".

He told parliament this week that his party wanted to “unite black people in South Africa” to expropriate land without compensation.

“People of South Africa, where you see a beautiful land, take it, it belongs to you,” he said. Although progress has been made in transferring property to black South Africans, land ownership is believed to be skewed in favour of whites more than 20 years after the end of apartheid.

The Institute of Race Relations, an independent research body, said that providing a racial breakdown of South Africa’s rural landowners was “almost impossible”.

“In the first place the state owns some 22 per cent of the land in the country, including land in the former homelands, most of which is occupied by black subsistence farmers who have no title and seem unlikely to get it any time soon,” the group said.

“This leaves around 78 per cent of land in private hands, but the race of these private owners is not known.”

Mr Zuma’s comments caused outrage among groups representing Afrikaans speaking farmers on Friday.

The Boer Afrikaner Volksraad, which claims to have 40,000 members, said its members would take land expropriation without compensation as “a declaration of war”.

“We are ready to fight back,” said Andries Breytenbach, the group’s chairman. “We need urgent mediation between us and the government. "If this starts, it will turn into a racial war which we want to prevent.”

Mr Zuma first mentioned the expropriation of land in his opening of Parliament speech last month, but Friday was the first time he called for a change in the law. In his February speech, he controversially called in the military to maintain “law and order” on the streets of Cape Town ahead of expected protests calling for him to step down.

It was the first time in South Africa’s history, including the heavily militarised apartheid era, that the president has ordered the military to provide security at parliament.

It's amazing how popular the doctrine of suicide can be to the ignorant.

A much more serious and concerning thead than the one on ISS being banned from AR. Let's see if this one reaches 13 pages like the "grade school" antics on the aforementioned one.

Out of respect for Saeed, I have not posted on that thread and quit reading it after page 7.

As you say there are more important fish to fry.

Things are getting better all the time in Africa:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2...a-farm-invasion.html

quote:

Published March 05, 2017

A former British Army officer-turned-rancher was shot and killed by tribal herders in central Kenya, authorities said Sunday.

Simon Kipkeu, the police officer in charge of Laikipia County, told the Associated Press that Tristan Voorspuy was inspecting some of his lodges, which had been torched by the attackers, when he was shot 118 miles north of Nairobi.

Kipkeu said Voorspuy's body was recovered next to his horse and witnesses are being interviewed.

Sky News reported that Voorspuy was a co-owner of the ranch and ran horseback safaris for decades with his wife Cindy.

In a message to Sky News Friday, Cindy Voorspuy said: "Archie, my son, is still in the thick of it trying to keep the peace and protecting his herders' cattle, game and staff ... there will be more troubles to come ... Just worry for Kenya."

Once a tourist paradise and one of the two most important conservation areas in Kenya, the Laikipia region has been a tribal battleground for months.

Several Kenyans have been killed and driven off the land by invaders from the Samburu, Pokot and Masai tribes who are heavily armed and use ammunition made in government factories.

The herders have driven tens of thousands of cattle onto Kenyan and foreign-owned ranches, some of which double as wildlife conservation areas. Gunmen are reported to have massacred elephant, lion, buffalo and all manner of other wildlife.

The militia is suspected of close contacts with members of parliament and government figures. The country's president Uhuru Kenyatta has been criticised for failing to intervene ahead of elections in August

Kenya has declared its drought a national disaster and the U.N. humanitarian chief has appealed for assistance for the herders.

.

Even with billions in foreign aid over the years the socialist governments of Africa can't keep it together...

When I hunted on the Eastern Cape a couple years ago my PH took us around to several farms that had been either bought from the whites by the government or just taken after they were run off. In all cases the farms were "granted" to black farmers through some "program" where they were also allowed to borrow against the farm for operating capital.
In every case we were shown the large sprawling ranches and farms were absolutely stripped of everything even the tin off the roofs and piping to the wells all sold off, obviously no crops in the fields and NO wildlife or livestock and the "new owners" had moved on.
I was completely shocked.
Living the sheltered life here in the states and not getting accurate news about this and crimes of invasion of farms, murders of families and rapes in South Africa I was completely surprised.
Any tolerance of this and the behavior suggested by Jacob Zuma will be the end of the country.
Sickening...

We just had a thread about white citizens in South Africa being tortured, including being burned, and now this from the head of state.

What part of this destroyed the economy, not to mention the racist and morally illegal, that this action bring to SA's neighbor to the North do these idiots not recognize.

I have dreamed of Africa all my life. Buzz Charlton's thread about what will happen without hunting keeps me thinking it is still viable for me.

However, with the price gauging, white hate, intensifying violence, and just good old fashion communism, Australia is looking more and more like it for me.

I hope God cares more about Africa than the Africans. Africa is in my prayers.

Not part of South Africa, but part of the same disease. It is not wasted on me that only time the Sudan did not see slavery was when the Union Jack flew over it.

quote:

Originally posted by analog_peninsula:
It's amazing how popular the doctrine of suicide can be to the ignorant.

Almost all of the subSaharan African countries are famous for the willingness of despots to do or say anything to attain or maintain power.

quote:

Originally posted by airgun1:
Out of respect for Saeed, I have not posted on that thread and quit reading it after page 7.

As you say there are more important fish to fry.

Out of respect for myself, I stopped reading that thread last week.

Friends recently bought a game farm in South Africa. I'm concerned for them.

No dough this country is on the way down, hell every single country in Africa went the same way once "THEY" took control of it, however I can assure you guys there is not A single piece of land "UP TO THIS MOMENT" being taken by the government with out compensation, NO ONE HAS BEING run off yet, like mentioned above in the post "everybody got paid" If your PH told you the ranchers were run off with out compensation he was telling a lie!! Now please I am not saying it will not happen however IT HAS NOT HAPPENED YET UP TO TODAY!! Lots of land was bought by THE ANC government and handed over and yes we all new the outcome of what happened to those farms, Hell you don't have to be a brain surgeon to work that out!! My point is NOT A SINGLE PROPERTY OWNER IN THIS COUNTRY HAD ANYTHING TAKEN AWAY FROM HIM WITH OUT COMPENSENTION YET!

Phillip, I hope you are right and that it doesn't come down to an open war.

I have friends there and this is very troubling indeed. I hope the fine folks at Leopards Valley are safe and sound.

We have been asking the international and global community to google " white genocide in South africa " and Farm murders South Africa , until you do this and force yourself to watch , you will never fully absorb what is happening - it will always seem to be " someone else " if you can tolerate watching old people and children being tortured to death and raped watch it , if you can imagine 70 000 people being murdered and Amnesty International being more worried about Albino attacks in Tanzania. So far the BBc has been th only main stream media to run a program on this , no CNN or any other liberal fake news media house has touched this subject. The only thing that will get Zuma accountable for the mass murder of whites in SA is when it becomes a daily front page news article and someone or organization with the resources and power to prosecute Zuma and Malema will we see anything happen.

As to land grabs , Philip is correct , the ANC have not to date taken any land without compensation and actually voted against the EFF ( Malema) proposal to ammend the constitution to allow for the expropriation of land without compensation , Malema offered the ANC the EFF 6% to get them to a 65% majority required to ammend the constitution and the ANC declined , this was also a slap in the face to Zuma by his own party as they said the ANC would never take land without compensation or ammend the constitution.

One needs to remember SA is also a signatory to world agreements on such issues so its far more complex than just expropriation without compensation.

The ANC is a capitalist based organization and its members own land , they know land only has value if it can be sold so its unlikely that there will be across the board expropriation , but with Zim just next door anything is possible.

As anyone would know farmers are land wealthy and cash poor , most buy outs have been a payout with the prev owner leasing the land back ( esp game farms ) so many of the land buys by government have been a very willing seller . The slow transformation has been due to the corruption and theft of government coffers and incapacity to handle all the land claims. So Zuma and Malema blame the whites to distract the masses from their agenda to steal more money.
South Africa has the resources to develop the economy and grow jobs but the ANC is plagued with nepitism and corruption so the money never reaches the economy , so Zuma blames white monopoly of the economy to distract the uneducated majority , much like Mugabe , while he continues to plunder. Zuma is trying to withdraw south africa from the ICC to avoid later prosecution and to capture the treasury, fortunately the ANC is big enough to have factions and this will slow it down and hopefully Zuma will be outed very shortly.

There is a very big petition being run by change.org , to be presented to Trump to ask him to intervene in the farm murders and genocide , please log in and sign up . I am sure you can google " Petition to Trump to Intervene in White Genocide ".

The issue, to me on this side of the world, is not taking with compensation. It is in the taking and the suggestion. The issue is that the government wants to take land held by private citizen owners and turn it to those who did not, and by and large will not, make productive use of it. Therefore, destroying the national economy and causing wide spread super inflation and famine (Zimbabwe). This of course, will cause the death of 1000s. In addition, the Government has made its white citizens targets of racial, communist, concentrated violence in order to carry out the land grab agenda. This is not to mention that it simply is not right.

Oh, but the Boers and Germans shot the hottenots (sp) as game animals some will say. I find this, spoken as a hillbilly, weak sauce.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:

Friends recently bought a game farm in South Africa. I'm concerned for them.

No offence but what the hell were they thinking???

I received a Whatsapp message from a friend in SA and he says that this was voted down in Parliament by Zuma's own party.
I bet this subject comes up again, soon.

I mis spoke in my earlier post, my PH didn't actually say they were run off without compensation. My understanding was there was significant pressure for them to agree to sell and vacate the land and "I" surmised that they didn't get full value, my fault for pandering incorrect information.

Zuma is a turd. Normally his left wing roaring falls on deaf ears.

quote:

Even with billions in foreign aid over the years the socialist governments of Africa can't keep it together...

All one needs to do is read "The Bell Curve" to put all of this in perspective. The "veneer" of civilized rules and behavior is very thin indeed. Scratch it and you'll find the real Africa...

Melorani, Owned by Stewart Dorrington, is a well known bow hunting outfitter about a four hour drive northwest of J'berg. I have hunted there twice (2003/2005). Below is a segment from one of Stewart's updates on his operation. Stewart is a past president of the South African PH Association and has written many articles on South African hunting. It is indeed painful to see him, and his family, essentially evicted from a three or four generation farmstead by the current racial madness in SA.


There has been a major development which will affect the future of Melorani. The land has been under a land claim for restitution to the previous occupiers, said to have left between 1913 and 1918. We have occupied the property since 1918 and cannot vouch what transpired before my grandfather arrived. We have fought the claim since 2008 when we were notified of the claim, and could continue to fight the claim. However, the political landscape looks threatening, especially in our district where fewer and fewer farmers are still on the land, unemployment and crime has climbed and incidents of poaching are on the increase. In addition there is an ominous groundswell amongst many black people to occupy the land as they did in Zimbabwe. Without solutions to land reform, that remains a distinct possibility in the future.

As a family we decided to negotiate the sale of the property with the government, while they could still afford to pay a reasonable settlement for the property. We don`t see that option will remain open for much longer.

It is fortunate that we did that as we have secured the capital of the land and are currently leasing the property back and we can continue to do business as usual.

We are now taking our negotiations to the next level. We want to grow Melorani and are negotiating a joint venture with government who will act on behalf of the claimants. A proposal has also been made by us to incorporate neighboring properties which also have been bought out and to make a large reserve that could ultimately hold the big 5 and offer tourism opportunities as well as hunting.

There is a risk in doing this as there are very few success stories to date due to the high expectations of the claimants and also because of the lack of industry knowledge. We are working with high level ministers and hope that we can make a working example, as government too is keen to show that their land reform programs can work.

In the meantime, I am starting my own safari company in the Eastern Cape and am currently looking at various concessions for both rifle and bow hunting. Stewart Dorrington Safaris will link up with the best operators in the E Cape and the rest of Southern Africa. After being in the industry for 30 years and serving many committee and organizations, I have built up friendships with many of the best hunting operators in the country who are willing to work with me and through them I can offer the best of all Africa. And the E Cape also has some great fishing, shark fishing from the beach, rock and surf, estuary and bass fishing aplenty.

Jorge..
You might also be interested in:

Why Race Matters by Michael Levin (A Philosophy Professor at City University of New York)

A Troublesome Inheritance, Genes Race, and Human History. by Nicholas Wade


The science and statistics in both books are extensive and correct. They flesh out and provide solid support for the arguments in Bell Curve. Both are available on Amazon as ebooks or print.

Most excellent, thanks

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
No dough this country is on the way down, hell every single country in Africa went the same way once "THEY" took control of it, however I can assure you guys there is not A single piece of land "UP TO THIS MOMENT" being taken by the government with out compensation, NO ONE HAS BEING run off yet, like mentioned above in the post "everybody got paid" If your PH told you the ranchers were run off with out compensation he was telling a lie!! Now please I am not saying it will not happen however IT HAS NOT HAPPENED YET UP TO TODAY!! Lots of land was bought by THE ANC government and handed over and yes we all new the outcome of what happened to those farms, Hell you don't have to be a brain surgeon to work that out!! My point is NOT A SINGLE PROPERTY OWNER IN THIS COUNTRY HAD ANYTHING TAKEN AWAY FROM HIM WITH OUT COMPENSENTION YET!

If you think things are bad in South Africa you should check out all of the unreported terrorist acts taking place in Sweden!

A number of years ago I hunted a beautiful property in South Africa that had been under a land claim brought by 18 indigenous families. We literally were the last hunters to hunt the property, and the owners were in the process of moving off during the week that we were there. I asked what was going to happen to the beautiful land, buildings, game, roads, etc. and was told that all the game would be poached, the windows, doors, cabinets, flooring and everything possible would be pulled off and sold or burned for firewood. They said that they would then live inside the buildings for a time with fires in the middle of the floors, until there was nothing left for them on the property. This property bordered along Kruger. In addition, they also said that the owners had not received full payment (up to that time) from the government, but only a portion of their agreed upon price. I have not followed up on it, but it was truly sad to be told that what had been so luxurious would soon be gone. It seems that I recall the name of the property being Tinshaba or close to that pronunciation.

One thought Mexico is bad..

http://rense.com/general39/reose.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:

The ANC is a capitalist based organization and its members own land , they know land only has value if it can be sold so its unlikely that there will be across the board expropriation , but with Zim just next door anything is possible.

The part I put in bold is simply not true.
https://mg.co.za/article/2014-...-claim-to-legitimacy

And a simple reading by anyone familiar with the communist manifesto of Marx, or other collectivist writings can see the socialist fingerprints all over the 1955 ANC "freedom" charter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Charter

That the leadership seeks to enrich itself is just par for the course with any socialist country.


.

quote:

Originally posted by stubbleduck47:
Melorani, Owned by Stewart Dorrington, is a well known bow hunting outfitter about a four hour drive northwest of J'berg. I have hunted there twice (2003/2005). Below is a segment from one of Stewart's updates on his operation. Stewart is a past president of the South African PH Association and has written many articles on South African hunting. It is indeed painful to see him, and his family, essentially evicted from a three or four generation farmstead by the current racial madness in SA.


There has been a major development which will affect the future of Melorani. The land has been under a land claim for restitution to the previous occupiers, said to have left between 1913 and 1918. We have occupied the property since 1918 and cannot vouch what transpired before my grandfather arrived. We have fought the claim since 2008 when we were notified of the claim, and could continue to fight the claim. However, the political landscape looks threatening, especially in our district where fewer and fewer farmers are still on the land, unemployment and crime has climbed and incidents of poaching are on the increase. In addition there is an ominous groundswell amongst many black people to occupy the land as they did in Zimbabwe. Without solutions to land reform, that remains a distinct possibility in the future.

As a family we decided to negotiate the sale of the property with the government, while they could still afford to pay a reasonable settlement for the property. We don`t see that option will remain open for much longer.

It is fortunate that we did that as we have secured the capital of the land and are currently leasing the property back and we can continue to do business as usual.

We are now taking our negotiations to the next level. We want to grow Melorani and are negotiating a joint venture with government who will act on behalf of the claimants. A proposal has also been made by us to incorporate neighboring properties which also have been bought out and to make a large reserve that could ultimately hold the big 5 and offer tourism opportunities as well as hunting.

There is a risk in doing this as there are very few success stories to date due to the high expectations of the claimants and also because of the lack of industry knowledge. We are working with high level ministers and hope that we can make a working example, as government too is keen to show that their land reform programs can work.

In the meantime, I am starting my own safari company in the Eastern Cape and am currently looking at various concessions for both rifle and bow hunting. Stewart Dorrington Safaris will link up with the best operators in the E Cape and the rest of Southern Africa. After being in the industry for 30 years and serving many committee and organizations, I have built up friendships with many of the best hunting operators in the country who are willing to work with me and through them I can offer the best of all Africa. And the E Cape also has some great fishing, shark fishing from the beach, rock and surf, estuary and bass fishing aplenty.

So sorry to hear this. When I visited Dorrington's place in 1994 or 1995, he proudly showed me what he was doing to restore his farm's buildings, habitat and indigenous wildlife. He also had launched a program that introduced local people to hunting.

Bill Quimby

I believe Stewart is now operating in the Cape.

quote:

We are working with high level ministers and hope that we can make a working example, as government too is keen to show that their land reform programs can work.

It may work today while they are in office and able to maintain and secure the contract in place but as you well know, these individuals can and do get "re-shuffled" between sunsets.

Next thing you know the newcomers will nullify the previous contract citing the deal had been dubiously concluded with the former officials and if you are lucky, you get offered another deal (equally dubious of course) or at worst, get hoofed out (most likely should Malema get in).

Last year I looked at buying a small game farm or part ownership in Klaserie, Thornybush in greater Kruger Park. It became clear to me as beautiful as it was there was an air of desperation to sell or don't give a damn. The inevitable seems to be sale and then lease back but the big question is fair compensation. The irony is that when it comes to agricultural land the Black Empowerment setup by Mbeki has resulted in much of the commercial land being owned by big companies with mega rich blacks involved. Hence they are not going to be keen, many of them senior in ANC, in the land being taken over by the "peasants" from the ruling elite.

quote:

Originally posted by TwoZero:

quote:

Originally posted by Safaris Botswana Bound:

The ANC is a capitalist based organization and its members own land , they know land only has value if it can be sold so its unlikely that there will be across the board expropriation , but with Zim just next door anything is possible.

The part I put in bold is simply not true.
https://mg.co.za/article/2014-...-claim-to-legitimacy

And a simple reading by anyone familiar with the communist manifesto of Marx, or other collectivist writings can see the socialist fingerprints all over the 1955 ANC "freedom" charter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Charter

That the leadership seeks to enrich itself is just par for the course with any socialist country.


.

That would be a complete re-write of history that the ANC is a capitalist organization.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
A number of years ago I hunted a beautiful property in South Africa that had been under a land claim brought by 18 indigenous families. We literally were the last hunters to hunt the property, and the owners were in the process of moving off during the week that we were there. I asked what was going to happen to the beautiful land, buildings, game, roads, etc. and was told that all the game would be poached, the windows, doors, cabinets, flooring and everything possible would be pulled off and sold or burned for firewood. They said that they would then live inside the buildings for a time with fires in the middle of the floors, until there was nothing left for them on the property. This property bordered along Kruger. In addition, they also said that the owners had not received full payment (up to that time) from the government, but only a portion of their agreed upon price. I have not followed up on it, but it was truly sad to be told that what had been so luxurious would soon be gone. It seems that I recall the name of the property being Tinshaba or close to that pronunciation.

The property did get sold to the local tribe. It is being leased by someone else. It is still up and running and by all accounts in a better condition than before. The property does not border Kruger but a private game reserve. Beautiful place.

Thanks Jan. Glad to hear that it was saved. Yes, I recall that it bordered some type of reserve. Love that place! :

I said in 2000, Mugabe is just the first, if he pulls it off, all the others will follow.

My Royal Kafue model puts the Title in the hands of a communal Trust (registered legal body) and a long term lease is stapled to that Title. The perpetual Title is deemed not for sale by Government.

The Trust (community) owns 20% of the development company and receives that proportion of investment and profits.

Kenya is also on the slippery slope and the signs have been there for decades. Friend of ours was shot by invaders a few days ago and there will be plenty more.

Americans have no need to be self righteous and act like we do not have race issues with violent crimes. In Chicago alone there were 800 murders last year. There are neighborhoods in most all American cities were you would get targeted because of your skin color.

There have been farm murders for as long as I have been going to Africa and it will not stop me from going. I have never had any issues and I have driven all over that country alone. As far as another Boer War, that could be catastrophic for RSA. I think that the international community, especially North American farmers, would support white farmers but where would China stand?



Have you ever seen the size of the Chinese Embassy outside of Johannesburg? They would have a much stronger foothold if there were less white landowners.

All of this makes me wonder just how safe it is to hunt in the RSA these days?

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:
Americans have no need to be self righteous and act like we do not have race issues with violent crimes. In Chicago alone there were 800 murders last year. There are neighborhoods in most all American cities were you would get targeted because of your skin color.

Sir: You do not hear any national party leader stating that we need a constitutional amendment to sell of land holdings from the white majority to correct past radical wrongs, and to allow upward mobility of those poor marginalized inner city citizens.

The violence in Chicago is drug and gang related. There is no greater political motive. The violence S
A, that we have been discussing, is black militants fuield by the politicos.

Hawaii did pass a similar land grab law. The Supreme Court upheld it under eminent domain. The result was a shack with any yard still cost 1 million dollars (some hyperbole, but not much).

In the US itis law and order issue coupled with how to combat crime within the confines of the Consitution.
In SA it is politically motivated targeting of one class of citizens by another with terrorist tools.

You ever heard of the Black Panther Party?

FYI, we have been giving out retribution funds. Six years ago there was federal funded program that gave $75,000 to any African American that could prove that they were the direct descendent of a second generation share cropper.

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:
You ever heard of the Black Panther Party?

Yes and mau mau, Amin, and ruwanda