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Pretty much exactly the same experience as I had. The difference between the two calibres in short range stopping power is phenomenal. | |||
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Updating the count: Unknown/7 English/22 Merkel/7 Chapuis/1 Krieghoff/10 Searcy/5 European/4 Heym/4 .500/13 .470/31 .500-.465/4 .577/5 .500-.416/3 .450 NE/2 .400 NE/1 .606/1 [With apologies (i) to Mac for not attempting to break out all the European countries (and while acknowledging that I am in fact aware that Germany and France are in Europe), and (ii) for any compilation errors.] Mike | |||
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Random musings/observations based on the foregoing data: > Bigger is better and bore diameter really does matter > English doubles still rule the roost > Ivan Carter is a glutton for punishment > Krieghoff cocking lever is a bigger deal with the experts on the forum than the experts in the field > Quality and reliability of Merkels must not be all that bad > With all due respect to JB and George Caswell, French rifles . . . well, they are just, French > Want to avoid ammo unavailability problems in Africa, first choice take a .470, second choice take a .470, third choice, if you absolutely must, take a .500 Thoughts of others? Mike | |||
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That pretty much sums it up.  | |||
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If I had a wife as drop-dead beautiful as Ivan's, I'd carry a 700 N.E. to make sure I got home to that woman... Wow! JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacD37: [QUOTE]Originally posted by MJines: Updating the count: English/9 Merkel/3 * Chapuis/1* Krieghoff/9* Searcy/1 European/2 ****the above, and below in the list are all European! Heym/1* QUOTE] Isn't Searcy the "All Amercian" double  Jim fur, feathers, & meat in the freezer  "Pass it on to your kids" | |||
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Note that the Searcy doesn't have the * to designate European vs English or American. JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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Peter Hepburn W. Richards .500 Jim | |||
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John Sharp-470 Rigby | |||
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Blacktailer, Out of curiosity I just checked with Leon and he said his .577 was made by Ferlach of Austria. Leon said that company closed a while ago though and I can't say I've ever heard of them. He can really shoot that thing well. One day in the Selous he wanted to check some ammo, took a swipe out of some tree bark with a machete to make a target, and then put two of those 600 gr bullets almost side by side near dead center from 50 or so yards. I shoot a .470, but it was still mighty nice to have Leon and that boomer as a backup. | |||
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Ferlach isn't a gun maker but a city in Austria where there are many individual gun makers and also a gun making coop. Some Ferlach makers include Joseph Just and Winkler, both of whom make top of the top end guns. The most expensive rifle I have ever seen was a Joseph Just and it would have been a fair trade on a nice house. Guns by the small makers who participate in the coop or who aren't (yet?) well regocnized are often referred to as Ferlach guns. Take a look at this site for some more info on Ferlach: http://www.itishooting.com/Ferlach.asp JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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JPK, you are right. Ferlach is a small village near Klagenfurt/ Austria near the Slovenijan border which is full of gunsmiths. There is also a big gunsmith school that is one of the first adresses in Europe to learn the profession. When I was there last time we saw a helicopter starting. My gunsmith told me it`s the Glock helicopter. The Glock factory is located in Ferlach, too.
Every gun from Ferlach can be called a Ferlach gun. I own some Ferlacher single shots and combos which are fine and accurate. But for double rifles in Big Game calibers and side-by side shotguns I prefer the English brands from Birmingham and London. | |||
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Dentist, I didn't realize Glock was in Ferlach. Yes, I suppose every gun made in Ferlach could be called a Ferlach gun, since it is, but Glock calls their guns Glocks and it wouldn't do Josef Just any good to call his fine rifles Ferlachs either. On the other hand, the small unknown makers gain quite a bit when their guns are referred to as Ferlachs. Take a look at the link I provided and see how many makers' names you know, as opposed to those you don't. It isn't a complete list and I recognize only eight of the fifteen. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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JPK, sure, nobody would call a Glock pistol a Ferlach gun. Glock is a special thing in this village and as far as I know they do the biggest business of all makers there. IMO Glock is just another prove of the high skills combined with new technologies that this village created over centuries. Ferlach`s reputation comes witout doubt from the traditional guns e.g. European nobility and members of the Habsburg dynasty usually hunted with Ferlach guns. With the one exception of Juch I know and handled guns of every maker on this list at least on IWA(European gunshow) and are used to hunt with guns of one of the more unfamous manufactures you mentioned. He is a good friend, too. In the German speaking countries it`s a normal term to call every traditional gun from there just "Ferlacher" and this means nothing bad, maybe it´s different overseas. Immature roebuck  , my Ferlach gun.  Some makers are more famous than others and many customers tend to privacy. So will the makers do. By this way we will never hear about or see the biggest part of fine guns produced. The coop guns are good guns but they normally are no high end products. The price reflects it. Very nice thread. Would be more nice to see more pictures  | |||
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This is the general perception in the US I think. But the Coop guns are generally a better grade gun and under appreciated compared to more recognized larger makers' guns, imo. And also why Josef Just rifles, for example, are referred to as Josef Just rifles and not Ferlach rifles here when one wants to convey the quality of that Josef Just gun. If the typical hunter here were told that a rifle is a Ferlach rifle, it wouldn't convey the probable quality of the rifle, and wouldn't convey at all that it might be of outstanding quality. I was supprised at first that you were familiar with the Ferlach makers, your English is excellent and I was unaware from your previous post that you are European. I doubt that many US hunters are as familiar with Ferlach makers as I am, let alone you! BTW, beautiful rifle. Nice buck too. What cartridge? What maker, if you don't mind? I have an occasional lust, that waxes and wanes, for a fine break open single shot. JPK Free 500grains | |||
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Krieghoff 9,3x74R - we don´t have dangerous game in the Western Cape. | |||
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Now I understand you better, JPK, and I agree with you about the quality. Even here in Germany (where are more Ferlach guns around) there are many hunters who have no idea about Ferlach and especially about the different Büchsenmacher=makers. For them contraptions like the Blaser are the top of the top.  The cartridge in this break open single shot(topped with Zeiss scopes) is a 7x75R Super Express vom Hofe. The 7x75R was invented in 1939 and due to the war introduced 20 years later. It´s something like a rimmed 7mm Rem Mag and I´m not sure if there are some factory guns for this cartridge. Only one factory load is available. Here a handloaded one with pure copper bullet  I don`t like name dropping but I can send you a PM about the maker, if requested. But be careful: They will produce everything you wish as long as you can pay it, even customize and engrave a Blaser R93 for 100k or more.(disgusting) To come back to the original topic:
I wonder why... MacD37, me too..  | |||
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HA HA THATS WHY I NEED TWO 577S WITH A TRACKER AS A LOADER WHEN I COME HOME !!! from a ph perspective ,in recent years the pricepoints on various doubles and the far easier availability have put them whithin reach ...not that in the past Phs didnt want them , just they they couldnt get them , or afford them and also its only recently that ammo is so readily available for such a wide variety of doubles ... today there are several GREAT makes of rifle that are below 20k. the Heym PH has made it possible to buy the rifle without the frills and thats right up a PHs alley , we want a workhorse and dont want to pay for the frills ... My rigby is completely without any engraving...very very functional shoots straight and is a fraction of the price of the fancy ones with color case hardening , scroll engraving etc etc ... two to add to the list brent leesmay .500 heym mark vallara .470 heym "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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Mark Sullivan 600 NE Marcel Thys 577 NE 500 NE 450 3&1/4 Army & Navy | |||
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Already mentioned but Rich Tabor: 470 K-gun Also, Randy Westrandt: 470 K-Gun | |||
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Nigel Theisen has 2 .470 Rigbys. He sometimes carries one of them depending on what he is hunting. Paddy "Bloodnut" Curtis carries a .470 alot...Rigby I think. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Martin Pieters sometimes uses a 470 ( William Douglas I think). Danny McCullum uses an English double (470 I think). One of Jaime Wilson's PH's (Joe) uses a Heym in 470. I should think the 470NE is the most popular calibre hands down. Oh' and there's Zambians Andrew Baldry and Richard Bell-Cross now with their V-C 500's. | |||
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The question was asked why Krieghoff seems to be so high in the list. I think the reason is rather simple: For some years now Krieghoff & their SA agent, Fanie & Eugene Combrink of SABI Rifles, have been doing the best marketing job here. They attend a lot of shows, they allow the crowds to touch & feel the guns (everyone else puts them behind glass) they attend conventions such as the PHASA AGM & BASA Year End Shoot, they have shooting days with their demo guns, they donate rifles & goodies for local associations etc. I have no doubt this has made them the market leader in SA, and I'm sure that's why their guns are flowing into the trade here and in the rest of southern Africa. As to who carries what, Ian Mc Farlane has about a dozen doubles, mostly English/British, but his preffered gun is a 577 by Beesley. http://www.bigbore.org/ http://www.chasa.co.za Addicted to Recoil ! I hunt because I am human. Hunting is the expression of my humanity... | |||
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Pierre van Tonder a 470 Merkel Mike | |||
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ganyana i believe uses KRIEGHOFF 470 NE www.huntinginargentina.com.ar FULL PROFESSIONAL MEMBER OF IPHA INTERNATIONAL PROFESSIONAL HUNTERS ASOCIATION . DSC PROFESSIONAL MEMBER DRSS--SCI NRA IDPA IPSC-FAT -argentine shooting federation cred number2- | |||
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You know...I have been shooting my Merkel .500 NE for about a year now...it is a little finicky about modern monoliths (likes Woodleghs fine but is warming up to the CEB BBW #13's with coaxing)...and you know what there just ain't no flies on it. Sure the Merk is a no frills kind of gun...but mine has pretty wood. But for a working double...  !!!Mine points like my finger. Sure it is a bit light for a .500 but it is just soooo handy. I shoot mine with the factory pad, as it fits me like a glove just like it came, over a Pabst pad...no worries at all on recoil...and I really don't like recoil. I doubled it once but I strummed the rear trigger (yes I still shoot the front trigger first)...my fault...now that I am used to it...no worries there. Yep...I believe Merkel doubles are just a good piece of equipment, a good value...no wonder quite a few PH's choose them. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Hilton Nichols is switching to a Sabatti in .500 NE. | |||
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Paul Jelonek, Krieghoff .470 Dutch | |||
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I think perhaps the rigby you may be thinking of is the bossmans (luke samaras) Luke had a very well used bolt Rigby in .416rigby he was using in 09 | |||
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I wish him luck! It's kind of a hit & miss with Sabattis and it seems there are more misses than hits! If he gets a good one he'll be fine, but if not Woe be it! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Hello Notlim: Luke also has a .470 Army/Navy, Jasper .470 Jeffery and Yours Truly .500 Greifelt. | |||
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Mike Payne - 470NE Krieghoff ( I saw another entry indicating Mike sometimes uses a 500/416 when hunting elephants. I have hunted with Mike for 5 years and he has never mentioned nor carried a 500/416) Leon Du Plessis - 470NE Heym Owain Lewis - 475 #2 Jefferey NE Jefferey Double Andrew Dawson - 470NE Willian Evans Paul Smith - 500NE Krieghoff Mangwana | |||
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When I hunted with Paddy Curtis in 2008, he carried a Hambrusch 470NE, which I believe is a Ferlach gun. Jack Hood DRSS | |||
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I believe that Lance Nesbitt's 470 is an old V. C. Believe me, it's well used and accurate! | |||
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Fujo, What is Bloodnut's .470??? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Hambrusch | |||
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The discount to PH's who are members of PHASA is 10% | |||
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Ad please: PH Peter Duffner Heym .500 NE | |||
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