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I trying to find a good rifle sling for a Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan with a sling swivel on the barrel band---any suggestions? What works for you guys? I want something that is fast and comfortable... "Archery enshrines the principles of human relationships. The Archer perfects his form within himself. If his form is perfect, yet when he releases he misses, there is no point in resenting those who have done better than him. The fault lies nowhere."(Confucious) | ||
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Here is what I do with ALL rifles while hunting. NO SLING.. PERIOD!! The temptation to sling the rifle as you get tired is to great. You will do it and then you might (probably will) miss an opportunity to shoot. No sling is as fast as a rifle in your hands. I keep no sling on my rifle while hunting. I keep the sling in my camelback or in a cargo pocket to put back on the rifle in case I need to sling the rifle so I can drag something out. I do this everywhere I hunt from Maine to Africa to Wyoming. I do it because I have burned myself way to many times by having an opportunity with a limited time frame present itself and I wasted precious seconds getting the rifle into action. African hunting in general is pretty easy terrain wise. You won't have the mountains to hump like you do in the western USA on and elk hunt. NRA Life DRSS Searcy 470 NE The poster formerly known as Uglystick | |||
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www.traderkeith.com one is the best that I have found. Light, wide, non slip, quick drying and classic.  | |||
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I have never met an African PH who had a sling on his rifle. Leave it at home. STAY IN THE FIGHT! | |||
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I don't use a sling as well. During my military training slings were removed whilst 'tactical' so I never got used to wearing one. My rifles are usually light to medium weight. If I had a heavy double to carry it would no doubt be another story. If I could afford a double then I could afford a gunbearer as well. Edit: The longest stalk I've had to do was 9km with my 9.3 and I must say I had new muscles in my arms at the end of it. | |||
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I have  Five PHs that I know of. (Including the likes of Roger Whitall, Roy Vincent and Danny McCullum). But, I don't think what PHs use is always the same in what is best for a hunter. | |||
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+1 | |||
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I used a Butler Creek comfort stretch sling when I was there and here in Canada whenover I hunt. Easy to take off, makes a heavy gun feel light. | |||
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+1 Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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+1 for the Butler Creek neoprene slings. I removed all my leather slings from all my rifles 15 years ago and went to the Butler Creek slings exclusively. QD swivels will allow removal when and if necessary. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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The Butler Creeks will tear under the weight if a safari rifle, even the Ruger Alaskan. I just put one on a 375 Alaskan a few days ago and at the end of day 1 the neoprene was tearing away right at where the top part of the webbing is threaded to the neoprene. Not tough enough for the weight of a safari rifle period. I am going to send this one back with a note attached. Other than that I like them. I too now need to look for something else but will probably go back to leather as it is typically just a lot tougher material. | |||
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I had a neoprene sling for a big heavy varmint rifle and it stretched and tore as you described. I now use the cordura backed Vero Vellini sling and it's great. | |||
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Woodrow, I think you got bad sling...Butler creeks haven't torn on any of my rifles including a couple 10 lb rifles... Makes Me Laugh, Use the same sling you use when hunting in the States. What ever works for you here will work for you over there... I have seen several PHs use slings...as a matter of fact one PH wanted my slings. Must be the fact that we are south of the equator that makes walking around with a rifle in Africa different than walking around with a rifle in the US.  Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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+1 "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
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Hell, I've loaned a sling to a PH. I use slings very similar to what Oz Hunter's photo shows, but I have premium QD swivels stitched in in place of the brass connectors. Can't recall the brand of QD swivels, but they are a hell of a lot better than Uncle Mikes and don't need or have the plastic screw thingy. BTW, just because you have a sling doesn't mean you have to have it on your rifle! JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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Whether or not to use a sling is a personal preference. I acquired a Trader Keith for a Namibia hunt; it is now my favored sling, I agree wi ozhunter's evaluation. The problem I have with the nylon slings is that they are more prone to sliding off my shoulder. The Trader Keith not so much; next to it I prefer the classic leather military sling. | |||
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I have used the same Uncle Mike's nylon slings for the past 15 years. It's wide, non slip and very comfortble. | |||
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I own 3 Trader Keith slings! Take it off, put it back on as you need! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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Another good sling is the Vero Vellini (sp.?), also a neoprene style. Just because a PH doesn't use one doesn't mean slings aren't useful. Try scrambling up and down steep kopjes all day spotting plains game without one. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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I knew a guy once who used rope.....seemed to work just fine. | |||
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Carry your rifle muzzle down on the opposite shoulder you shot from. Very quick to get the rifle up to shot and very steady, as you loop the sling around your arm. Craig Boddington talked about taking the sling off "in the thick stuff", I think that's a good idea too. Robert If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy. Thomas Jefferson, 1802 | |||
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Texas Hunt Co. makes a good one. I like it a lot. | |||
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Another vote for the Butler Creek Comfort Stretch. This made it possible to hump my own heavy DG rifles all day, instead of periodically passing off to a tracker. The "Alaskan Magnum" model is what you want for your heavy rifles. Makes an 11 pound gun carry like a 7 pounder. | |||
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I'm using a Mulholland Classic Safari Sling (http://store.hendershots.net/mulhollandclassicsafarisling.aspx). From the picture it appears to identical to the Trader Keith. Brazos_Jack | |||
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I love that idea. I have the same sling but have not used it because I don't trust the brass hooks. I'm sure the hooks work fine, but I just can't warm up to them. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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The Brownell's Latigo sling and the Vero Vellini slings are hard to beat. The Trader Keith's sling is good, too. The key with a sling is knowing when to use one and when not - on DG in particular they can be problematic. They are generally good for carrying, obviously. They take the load off the arms and preserve strength and improve stamina. But they can be a real hindrance to fast handling - and that isn't a good thing when your quarry can gore, stomp, claw and trample you. So, when after DG - I used to take them off when the chips were down. Nowadays, I just leave them off, as I have found that predicting when the chips are going to be down can be dicey. I use Uncle Mike's QD swivels on all of my slings. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I use Browning Western Stitch Buckmark slings on all of my bolt action rifles, with Uncle Mike's QD sling swivels. No slings on my double rifle, although I do have a Ching sling for it. | |||
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The Vero Vellini is a first rate sling. I have several. | |||
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This is the way I always carry my rifle, whether in Big 5 area or not. If you practice a little you will be able to get your first shot off with a load on a bolt action in just over 1 second from go. THe bst guys are shooting the first aimed shot at just over .8 of a second with the next two coming within the next 2 seconds. I will however say this. If you are not going to practice and get 100% used to using the sling, then you are better off without it. For scenarios where you are in a compromised body position or could come upon DG in very thick cover then the sling should come off until you are back into an area where you are comfortable to be "swinging" the rifle to the "ready" I used leather slings. Neoprene and woven anything seem to have a higher chance of snagging, neoprene especially does not get on well with anything that has hooked thorns. | |||
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Ian, If I am interpreting your post correctly, you are saying that from a slung rifle position that with practice these blokes are getting 3 aimed shots off in under 3 seconds... I generally don't throw a bullshit flag...but that is pretty unbelievable stuff...even the first aimed shot in .8 seconds would be incredibly difficult from a command or identification of a threat/target from a slung rifle. I am very familiar with the carry position you are talking about and also familiar with human reaction times. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Hi Mike I know the times sound hard to believe. Hell I even find them hard to swallow. But they were quoted by the guys coming out of the Kruger Park training setup many years ago. They were on average putting 500 - 800 rounds through their rifles in the 2 months of rifle drills though. I can personally only manage 3 shots in 4.5 seconds as my best time to date. The qualifying standard to get your license was 6 seconds and they thought that to be overly lenient. One thing to keep in mind is that all of this is done using hand held stop watches and may be subject to guys getting over eager to "beat the record". One thing I do know is that most guys are more than capable of getting under 5 seconds if they don't hash it and rush. I tend to aim a bit longer than most, especially on the first(most important) shot, but there are guys I have seen doing it in just over 4 seconds. Its a bit of a tough one, not having been there to actually see it happen one will always be skeptical, one thing I do know is that the muzzle down carry is still used by all guides today and is still the safest form of carry for the defense of trails participants. There is one other aspect to this equation and that is that whenever there is a stop watch on site then the person is primed and ready for action, which may give an unfair advantage with the time. My advice on this one still stands though, if you are going to use it you must practice regularly as sling management then becomes as much a part of the deal as not pointing your muzzle at anyone. Practice or go without, there are no in betweens on this one. One major advantage I have always found with this form of carry is that you get to burn lots of powder getting into the swing of it and that is always a good thing in my book Perhaps Ganyana can come to the table with some times on this one, I am not sure if they ever tried it in their Rifa setup Good luck Ian | |||
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500-800 rounds of big bore in two months is a lot of practice. I can see where the times would be good. I just don't like a sling when I'm in thick stuff, be it whitetail hunting in the states or in my very limited experience of DG hunting in Africa. I have shot off slings a lot in competition in my youth and still use them in offhand shooting (what is termed "the shooter's sling")here at home when the situation permits. But in thick cover, they just get in the way. IMHO, anyway. | |||
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Jetdrvr From what I understand of the old Kruger Park guides, they were a breed apart. Men dedicated to their cause with excellence as their centre point. Please read this article written by Cleve Cheney if you want to understand the group that were capable of these feats. http://www.trailsranger.com/html/introduction.html If we had more of their type running conservation in this country there would be a damn side less bullshit flying around the place. I have a photo somewhere of two of the appy trails guides with blue shoulders and big grins, I will try and find it, but yes that is a hell of a lot of 458 to fire off. For their final test they would have an elephant bull herded towards them by a helicopter, they would have to intercept the angered animal and induce a charge. To pass you had to drop him with a brain shot. I did hear a legend of a guy in the early days who with a double dropped two bulls when they both popped out of the scrub at close quarters. He got the shots off and two bulls dropped. I believe the man in question, name to follow, will be down her in Natal some time in the near future so will try and verify the story. Apparently there is a certificate issued to him by the then director of parks Salomon Joubert stating that he dropped the two in a training excercise. Exciting stuff. Ian | |||
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That's some amazing shooting and quite a training regimen. Being charged by two elephants and dropping them both I would imagine got him a passing grade... I just ran off 20 rounds of .458 Win today at the range and would have done some more, but that was all I had, other than the three solids I keep in case I'm attacked by an enraged pickup truck..  Edit: Ian, I read the referenced article. The ranger program is going the way of everything else that once worked well there. The deterioration in skill levels for political reasons is the same reason that I will no longer fly SAA. I once flew contract cargo for SAA and vividly remember what a great airline it once was. I've seen this coming for a long time. Damned shame. | |||
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I know what you mean about the standards. Its a sad reality of the National Qualifications Framework. The way I like to look at the new "standards" is that they are the bare minimum and should be a starting point for anyone wanting to excel in his or her field with the ambition of achieving an international standard of excellence. I think those solids would make a right mess of the pickup truck. Shot an old f150 block a while back and managed to get tow out of three through from the side. Not sure about modern engines, but the cast block almost shattered off bits around the impact hole. Possibly to do with how it seized? Glad to hear you are burning powder, its the best therapy there is, no matter what the ailment. | |||
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Really? I drive an F-150 and if she ever heads south, I'll give her the coup de grace with my .458... I have a bunch of the new Hornady solids I bought from the guy who sold me the rifle. They seem to be performing well, from all reports. If I can find a block, I'll try them out. I have some of the old Speer African Grand Slam tungsten cored .375's. I have no doubt they would trash an engine block. I shot one through 1 1/2 inches of tempered steel at 100 yards. Very impressive. You're right about shooting as therapy. A successful trip to the range has always generated endorphin secretion all my life. I'm old and really beat up and shooting's about my only pleasure these days. And I love my new .458. Hope to use it in Zim or Zambia in 2011. | |||
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Jetdrvr Would like to see the results with the tungsten cores. I have seen a pmp solid from a .375 come back to a guy shooting at a peice of tempered steel at 30m. He got lucky, almost earned himself a darwin award. Shards cut him above the eye and left quite a welt. Moral of the story, stay well back. Good luck Ian | |||
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I bought a sling that had a little stretch to it. I thought it would be comfortable. Big mistake. The gun bounced when I walked and when I tried to walk fast with it on my shoulder it would bounce out of control. I don't use it. The important issues in a sling for me: no slip and no stretch. | |||
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I like a standard shooting sling, esp on a plains rifle. I can shoot sitting with a sling a lot better than I can shooting off the sticks; even off the sticks, I have a technique in which I use a sling. With a barrel band sling stud, it gets a bit dicey to use a position with sling tension, but it works great on plains rifles. I never carry the rifle slung; I use the over the shoulder carry. | |||
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Here's one PH who insists on slings and I also like the Uncle Mike's. Slings enforce or at least assist safe gun handling, there is nothing worse than watching a movie of a safari line moving thru the bush in single file, everybody pointing their rifle at the man in front of him. Plus PH's everyday weapons are primarily binos, then shooting sticks - then rifle. When in thick bush or following DG, remove the sling and put in pocket, trackers back pack whatever. BUt PLEASE don't carry your rifle African carry over your shoulder with the barrel pointing at the PH's or trackers backs! | |||
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