The old debate is still on. Tipping PH's range from nothing, to a handshakes, to old equipment, to rifles, to lots of cash - and combinations of all of these.

I we accept the principle of tipping PH's ... What is fair and reasonable?

That should have read "IF we accept ..." - and I know some folks don't!

Johan
Bahati Adventures
www.bahati.co.za

$85 to $100 a day for each day hunted. If I hunt seven days of a 10-day hunt, I don't think I owe a tip for the last three days. (It's probably a tip that he gets a few days off before the next customer.)

I tip but do not like it.

I feel justified in tipping 20 to 30% to a waitress/waiter that is making crap for wages, and is probably more than the intent of tipping.

There is nothing fair or reasonable about tipping a PH. If a PH is relying on tips, his daily rate isn't high enough, though when working for the boss-man-outfitter or using anothers hunting area he gets paid the going rate.

As much as they may try to hide it, most PH's are drooling at the mouth come tip time, and can make for bad feelings if the tip isn't what the PH may consider "fair and reasonable."

Of course, if you have the money, you can easily buy the love of a PH.

I agree with Bill Stewart. I tip but never like it as I don't get tipped when I drill a good oil or gas well by my employeer.

If I tipped 10% of the cost of my last trip, it would have been $6000. I tipped each of the three PH's we had $600 for 11 days of work, the trackers $100 each, the cook $50,the camp staff $20 each, the government scouts $20 each.

I left about $300 worth of ammo (they wanted it), all of the fishing gear ($200 worth of stuff) and clothes as well.

I felt just fine with that...

Johan/Bahati,

I don't know exactly what your really intentions are when posting this thread as you don't declare them up front!

So, why don't you follow your own advice?:

www.bahati.co.za/info.html

Or are you sort of "fine tuning" it?

B.Martins

You can bet that very few if any Europeans tip. They pay for the services offered which in my opinion is all that anyone should do on any hunt, African or anywhere else.

The way I see it, I'm paying big bucks for an advertised great hunt. If it's not a great hunt, maybe I should get a refund.

Tipping a PH is a part of safari life....just like old mausers, english doubles and 18 year old malt... a custom inherited from the beginning of safari life

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Tipping a PH is a part of safari life....just like old mausers, english doubles and 18 year old malt... a custom inherited from the beginning of safari life

But, that doesn't make it right! It's custom in some areas to have a mistress, but does that make it right? Slavery was a custom (May still be!). but does that make it right? I don't think so.

The way I look at tipping is that if we don't tip them enough to make a livable wage for the PHs the daily rate will have to go up. If the PH receives a good portion of his wages from tips, he does not have to pay taxes on them and the tip will probably be more money in his pocket then the daily rate he is paid from the safari firm. If you pay it all in the daily rate the govt is going to get a half or more of it.

465H&H

I tip because I want to, not because it is expected! I don't do anything because it is expected, unless I want to! You can be sure I will not walk out of camp, at the end of a safari, and leave 5,or6K on the table, no matter how long, or good a hunt I've just finished!

...................

I believe the question assumes that the responder agrees with tipping.

For plains game, I tip 10% of my daily rate. For Dangerous game $100/day.

I place my life in these guys hands, personally, I think my life is worth it.

TerryR

Bwanamich,

Interesting that you should allude to the "custom of Safari life" .

I have just used this quote from a journal in a note to Retreever and it relates to those original customs.

"At sun-up one bright morning we set out on foot on our journey [from the port of Shirati], hoping to reach the Mara River in two days. The first day out I allowed the safari to take it easy, and only covered about sixteen miles. These porters will carry a sixty-pound load on an average of twenty-four miles per day. "

He had hired 50 porters, a cook, two gunbearers and a body-servant for the safari at five rupees [$1.60] per month each.

Should we stick with ALL those old customs?!

Les

465H&H, if a PH "Professional Hunter" is not being paid a livable wage by the Safari Company he works for, then he should move on to a better company or find some other line of work.

My doctor is a Professional, I don't tip him. I'm a Professional Engineer and have never gotten a tip for work I have done. If your truely a Professional you should be paid accordingly. Tips are for shoeshine boys, pretty bar maids, trackers and low paid camp staff. Just my 2 cents worth.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
I tip because I want to, not because it is expected! I don't do anything because it is expected, unless I want to! You can be sure I will not walk out of camp, at the end of a safari, and leave 5,or6K on the table, no matter how long, or good a hunt I've just finished!

I agree with Mac, I tip because I want to. If it was a bad hunt then I do not tip.

Ddawgg66

I agree with what you said but unfortunately I think most safari outfits and PHs would rather the client pay part of the Phs salary to avoid the tax issue. I could be wrong and will wait for a PH to comment.

465H&H

I generally agree with the sentiment that tipping is not required, and should be for service "over and above", not your normal expectations.
In reality, I almost always tip the camp staff, as I do believe they generally work hard, are modestly paid, and deserve some gratuity. A couple hundred or maybe three hundred among the various staff might be appropriate.
I often book the services of the PH directly, as I usually deal with small "owner/operators", not large safari companies. As such, I think it is less appropriate to tip the "owner" (my PH). I do tip modestly for the efforts given, but don't feel bad about not tipping the PH if that is the way I see it. If I do hire a PH from a large outfit (like HHK, for example), then I am more inclined to tip, as now my PH is just one of the employees, albiet supposedly a professional.
Just my $.02 on the issue. I recommend that YOU do what you feel is appropriate!
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Tipping a PH is a part of safari life....just like old mausers, english doubles and 18 year old malt... a custom inherited from the beginning of safari life

I thought that traditionally you didn't tip your White Hunter?

As my hunt was nearing it's end, I asked my hunting partner this same question. He told me that 15% was appropriate for the "Entire" staff, including the PH. I hope that I made it clear enough when I gave it to the Owner, that he was to distribute it to all, as he saw fit...

You know this tipping issue is a complicated one. If you go the "percentage" route as some do, it can run into thousands of dollars. On the other end of the scale, there are some cheap SOBs out there who tip a lot less than the PH deserves or what they can afford.

Hey, I'm not shy and if my PH didn't do what I thought was a good job or his very best, I wouldn't tip him, but I know that a good deal of their income comes from that and especially the staff. I try to be very up front with this.

I am not a wealthy man and my PH knows that when I tip him, what I give him is what I can afford. He understands that and I'm pretty sure he appreciates that for a guy like me a thousand dollars is a lot of money. jorge

........PS:

What I do when I get into camp the first night I take a small tablet, and at the dinner table after the meal is over, I ask the PH for every name of the staff, and what his/her job is.

Tipping is a very personal thing, and when it's time to leave, I make out an evelope for each of the staff, sealed, and hand it to them personally! This includes the PH! Tipping of the PH should be in USA CASH, so he can salt it away. The staff should be tipped in local cash money, because they get stiffed in the exchange rate when they try to change it if it is American currancy, and some time are not allowed to have it at all.

Save the list you were given for your journal!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
........PS:
Tipping is a very personal thing, and when it's time to leave, I make out an evelope for each of the staff, sealed, and hand it to them personally! This includes the PH! Tipping of the PH should be in USA CASH, so he can salt it away. The staff should be tipped in local cash money, because they get stiffed in the exchange rate when they try to change it if it is American currancy, and some time are not allowed to have it at all.

Save the list you were given for your journal!

Interesting the differences in customs. My PH expressly asked that I give each camp staff member a tip of my choosing directly to them myself and not a lump sum to the PH to distribute. As I understood the situation, it would be a slap in the staff's face if I gave the lump sum tip to the PH for him to distribute. If they are to get a "reward" in the form of a tip, it means something coming directly from the hunter. Actually, that is the way I would want it if I were in their shoes.

Also, US currency was completely fine for camp staff.

Sometimes there are bad feelings from the "staff" if the PH gets the tips to distrubute to them, feeling that are probably getting stiffed by the PH for some of their tip money.

Paying the "staff" directly circumvents the problem.

The buggest problem comes from tipping the staff. Some dude from Texas tips every staff member a hundred bucks, and the next guy from Kansas tells them to have a nice day. "What the hell is going on here?," is the staffs' reply.

Complicated, ain't it?

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I tip but do not like it.

I feel justified in tipping 20 to 30% to a waitress/waiter that is making crap for wages, and is probably more than the intent of tipping.

If you check what PHs make these days, you will see that they need (and usually deserve) a healthy tip!!

To put it another way, tip your PH $500.

For $500 gets a husband/wife/kids team. They

1) Take care of the house: cleaning, cooking, washing clothes, buying groceries, making beds, etc.
2) Take care of the yard: cutting grass, trimming the shrubery, sweeping the driveay, etc.
3) Run a zillion errands.

In return the "team" gets housing and $500.

My "team" consists of me, and I don't even get paid for it!

Just once I'd like to see a PH try to make their own bed.

quote:

Originally posted by b.martins:
Johan/Bahati,

I don't know exactly what your really intentions are when posting this thread as you don't declare them up front!

So, why don't you follow your own advice?:

www.bahati.co.za/info.html

Or are you sort of "fine tuning" it?

B.Martins

Hey B.Martins

My intentions were to get many more opinions as it has always been an issue of discussion. The varied and diverse replies prove that there is no single and simple answer to my question. Where you the hunter may be faced with the question once a year or once every two years, as outfitter I am faced with the question once or twice a week.

PH's, despite popular belief do not earn as much as you would think and the "promise" of a tip does serve as a driver for improved service. And you do put your life in their hands if you do dangerous game or hunt in very remote areas.

I must have missed the part where it said I must do declarations before posting simple questions - probably because I spend too much time in the wilderness and hunting areas and not enough in front of my PC wishing I was there ...

Johan

I know some of the busiest PH's in Tanzania turn over $50K a season all in i.e. daily pay, tips, etc. and Tanznaia offers some of the highest PH day pay around. This is for doing one of the hardest, most dangerous jobs there is

Most of these have a wife and 1 or more children. I have 3 kids of which 1 is of schooling age and my basic monthly expenses excluding house (I own my own house)or holidays is $2,5K - 3K. Once all 3 kids are in school it will cost me $20K a year for primary. You can make your own judgement on how important tips are to a PH......and I am not one

The one thing I don't agree with is tipping IF YOU ARE NOT SATISFIED with your PH. Comparing a PH with a doctor, etc is not the same IMO. Remember a PH's job is very "service" oriented just like a Maitre'D in a restaurant or a PA in a posh hotel; and tipping those is acceptable in most parts of the world

Tipping in Africa is dead allready. The days when tipps in Africa were accepted are long gone - they are pretty expected these days, however puting them into any fixed form doesn`t make them tipps anymore - they are obviously part of the daily rate that is payed directly to the PH and staff - unintentionaly leaving some bad taste in your mouth - looking like The Company that you are dealing with can`t afford to pay their employees or contractors enough so you must help them to run their business (since if you don`t - don`t forget - your life is in the PH`s hands - and since they can not pay him enough the PH may well let the beast get you )

Bahati - with all the respect - after visiting your site and noticed your fixed price list on tipping - just wonder what do taxmen in Mozambique or in SA think about it?

Mouse93

No sir! Tipping is alive and well in the safari industry in Africa where I live and operate.

Inclusion of a tip for the PH (and camp staff) in the daily rate would defeat the object of tipping. I believe that the clients should view it as a reward for exceptional service. Never a right - like it viewed is in many places.

I posted the question exactly because of the remarks made by everyone - it is a contentious topic for discussion because of different perspectives, customs, etc.

The web site data is only a guideline to folks that come to hunt with us and the taxman anywhere can do, well, nothing with or about it ... unless he wants to come and hunt with us. It is not a price list and it is there purely because we get asked the same thing over and over again.

Johan

Bwanamich

You are quite right. Add long times away from home, long hours and a limited hunting season.

Johan

Bahati:

Off topic but I would suggest that you include some indication of your hunts costs on your site, just as an example, a package buffalo hunt or a "normal" daily rate. Maybe I'm the exception, but I prefer to have some idea of whether the outfit I'm considering for a hunt is in my price range or not. That saves both of us wasted time.

Here is what I will have to face in May of 2007. Who should be tipped?

The Namibia ranch I will be hunting is a family owned operation with just a mother and 3 sons who are the PH's. The staff consists of 3 black trackers who are also the skinners and 4 black women who cook, clean and do laundry.

I have no problem tipping the trackers and house staff, but I am really struggling with tipping the PH since he is one of the owners. After all he is not really an employee and is sharing in the overall profits of the operation.

Do you think he should be tipped for providing a good hunt, which he has already agreed to do via the contract and required paid fee?

Here is another one for you guys....

Monetary tipping in Tanzania is against the law

Furthermore, if someone receives a monetary tip, he/she is liable to declare it as income and be taxed on it.

I fully expect to tip PH, trackers and skinners for a job well done. I think it is the norm and if they did a great job --then a great tip is in order. Obviously, everyone's budget is different on what amount to tip.

What about the staff? On my first safari, I fully planned on tipping the PH,tracker & skinners. But what surprised me was at the end of the safari, there was line of people I never saw before lined up for there tips.
about 20 or so. Everyone from several firewood cutters to the kitchen crew, laundry crew etc.

do you guys think that staff(other than PH,trackers, skinners) should be tipped or should the daily rate cover their pay in full?

what do you guys tip staff or do you?

From the Swanepoel & Scandrol website:

What are the recommended gratuities?
In general, on all safaris, we have established a guideline of $500 per week to cover all the camp staff/trackers. For the government game scouts we work on $100 per week. For the professional hunters, it varies widely, but over the years, the average seems to work out to an average of $100 per day. For the “Meet and Greet†staff member we suggest $50 per person, covering arrival and departure. It must be noted that the above are only suggestions and all gratuities are totally at the discretion of the client.

My last hunt was in NZ and the PH was the operator and I did not tip him or his wife. I never tip the owner /operator. On my last trip to Zim I tipped the PH and staff. The tip for the PH came with a sour taste in my mouth but I wanted my trophies and he was responsible for getting them from the Omay to the people (HHK) who were to process them for shipment. I guess you could call it a self inficted black mail. Of course the trophies just made it state side 10 months later with many emails to all kind of people except the PH. I am also a professional and I don't get or expect tips from my clients.

It is a gentleman's duty to know whom to tip, when to tip and how much to tip.

On this subject, I will say only that a gentleman should and will tip his PH and his staff for a job well done.

Of course, gentlemen are so rare these days, that if they were game animals they would be listed on CITES Appendix I.

It's your hunt and your money. Tip who and what you want. It's no one else's business.

I hunted with an owner/operator last year, and didn't tip him. I asked about tipping the staff, and he said not to.

Actually his staff work as hands on his property year round. His reasoning for no tips were multifold. Mainly that he wanted stability in their income, not varying by the generosity of each hunter coming through, especially when there would not be hunters each and every week. This is mainly a working ranch, and a hunting operation secondarily (although Francois said he enjoys the hunting part more). He also said he paid his men more than most of the others in the area to offset this.

His view on tipping the staff may be partly shaped by having had exclusively european clients before myself.

I had a very embarrassing afternoon on the next to last day of my safari in SA this past April in which my PH placed both myself and the other 2 hunters in my party in an awkward position pertaining to "expected tips". I am still very angry over his words and will probably never hunt with that safari company again and if I did would certainly never hunt with that PH, which in itself would be problematic as this PH's sister is married to the safari company owner. Because of this ill treatment I will be hard pressed to forget about it when the next safari closes, and may choose to forego tipping the PH...period. The trackers, camp staff etc. would still get what I feel they deserved though. To this day, I just can't believe what I heard...from a professional person yet. I was and am still appalled by this lack of respect to the clients to even bring up the subject while we are still hunting game. He even went as far as to ask us what we had intended to give in tips and once told went ballistic and basically made each of us feel like shit. Well, all told each of us discussed it that night and we all upped the amount considerably(don't forget we were all working class making <$60,000/yr and saved up a long time for this trip). If I had the opportunity to turn the clock back I would tell this PH off right damn quick. The last time this topic came up I had just gotten back from SA and was fumed to the point that I could not even write about my experience with tipping the PH. Reading others thoughts on the subject makes me feel somewhat better but I am still bitter(does that make sense?). At this point I won't even step foot in SA and currently am looking to other countries like Zim. and Tan. for my next trip, probably in 2008 or 2009. Lastly, my PH was not as good as the other 3 PH's on that hunt(there were 9 hunters in camp)...yep you counted right- 4 PH's and 9 hunters and guess who paid for a 2/1 hunt and hunted 3/1 and did not even get a break on daily rates. Damn, I know I have a right to be pissed. OK, one more comment then I'm done...a PH has one of the hardest and most dangerous jobs there is....give me a god damned break.