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Here's the kind of lion all of us dream about, an old, black-maned, black-nosed, scarred up old warrior from Mozambique. McDonald Safaris guided Hunting Report subscriber Kendall Kilbourne to this life-time trophy in the Sabie area: http://www.huntingreport.com/t...s_details.cfm?id=510 One day...... | ||
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Great lion..........poor photo. hopefully he has better one's for his personal viewing  "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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+1 That photo is horendous, but what a mane! Where is Sabie? Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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along the border fence of kruger national park that are all kruger lions!  | |||
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Freischuetz - What does that have to do with anything?? Lions come out of the park here, just as they do in Zim, Namibia, Zambia, Tanzania, etc. They are just as wild here, as anywhere in Africa. Brett - Tim Otto for years shot some fabulous lions in Mozambique, on the border of Kruger. I was at his house in 2006, some of the lions he took from there over the years, were absolutely incredible!! I swear, one of the lions his client shot had to have weighed over 600lbs! I had never seen a lion that BIG in my entire life. | |||
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Aaron, there is tremendous (and justified, IMHO) concern about any lion shot today with a good mane. I know YOU personally have never been involved in such shenanigans, but in Africa today there are operators that actually buy pen-raised lions and turn them loose next to a Zebra/Antelope carcass and bring the hunter in the next morning to hunt this "How lucky we are; he must have just wandered out of the park..." lion. I have a Biblical quote for you that might help: "...for the love of money is the root of all evil...". The going rate for a good lion seems to be north of $50,000 these days. As I said, I believe you are above board. Some others, sadly, are not. Rich DRSS | |||
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I'm not sure who posted this report but Kendall is actually my client. I get the quota thru McDonald's and do the hunting there in Sabie. In this case I had another camp coming into SA so used one of Sandy's PHs who has worked for me in the past. It is a tremendous lion however. Sabie produces big maned cats like this one every season but the quota is very limited. You can find out more info on the area at the website, www.kenmoody.com. Ken Moody | |||
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Rich - To you too, no disrespect. But to say that ANY big maned lion shot in Africa should have a question mark next to it, is simply those that say so, really not knowing what they are talking about. I think unfortunately many folks have been led astray, but a few who claim they know what they speak of, but really don't. Lots of insinuations and finger-pointing, but little factual info to back it up. Usually, I just chalk it up to jealousy. I just find it horribly bad taste that without any info to back it up, some immediately want to float a black cloud over an accomplishment like this. Good for the hunter, and I say congrats to him on a big lion!! | |||
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I like AR and think it is a great tool for safari prep and info but one of the drawbacks is that folks often think the opinions and "facts" presented here are the end all for African hunting. An example is the "Canned" lion controversy. The dishonest advertising associated with some of these hunts gets a huge amount of traffic here on AR leading people to believe lion hunts in general might be questionable concerning the origin of the lion. In reality I think very few people are actually duped into thinking they are shooting a wild lion when in fact they are shooting a pen raised cat. I'm sure if the facts were known that very few safari operators would even consider placing a lion on a property to be shot but I think it has been discussed here enough that the inexpereinced are getting the wrong impression. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Exactly!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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+1 | |||
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Yep!!! And I'll add just a bit to Mark's accurate statements above. To think that most folks shooting canned lions, thought and/or believed they were hunting wild lions, oh my!! Sabie's location, was for years an excellent hunting area and no reason to think it can't still be. Big maned, totally wild lions, have and will continue to come out of the Kruger in all directions, including Mozambique! | |||
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Aron Shooting 5 male trophy lions in a 40 000 hectare game fenced farm per year, do you think this is normal or sustainable, the animals have to come from somewhere? You always can send a invitation by sound or smell for a meal but that is it! There is not a change in hell that you can harvest sustainable 5 trophy lion from a 40 000 ha area per year. Recommended off take rate for lion is maximum of 5% on males and 3% on females so 5% off take = 1 lion out of 20 males if you take 5 per year you should have a population of 100 males in the area not counting the females and sub-adults! You show me 40 000 hectare natural habitat that can support such a population density? Believe whatever makes you happy! | |||
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Sabie is not an enclosed area so you are mistaken. It borders the Kruger fence on one side and has a boundary fence on the other side but it is open on both ends. The eastern boundary fence simply helps prevent elephant/buffalo from wandering into the villages located there. It is not enclosed. Ken Moody | |||
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Freischuetz - Your first statement makes no sense, and as Ken mentions is secondly, WRONG. If it was a 40,000 hectare "game fenced farm", and they were continually shooting too many lions, how in the world do they keep shooting GOOD LIONS?????? Simple answers, because its NOT a fenced farm, and likely they are not over-shooting it. Secondly, have you personally seen with what regularity the lions come and go through the Kruger Park boundary fence??? I have, its unbelievable! That fence is nothing more than an irritant to most lions, if they want on the other side, they get on the other side, period. Your percentages are mere numbers dreamed up by some scientist, who then convinces people he knows what he's talking about. Recommended by WHO???? Proper lion management certainly should include sustainable quota figures, but most importantly, its up to the operator to exercise good judgment in the harvesting of "qualified" trophies, regardless of his quota. Maybe Ken can answer this, but in fact is the quota in Sabie, 5 lions? If so, I would likely agree that's a bit much. On the other hand, I would defer that question to the real expert, with practical knowledge in the area, Mr. Moody, and ask him his opinion, and how he handles it. How likely knows more about it than me, or you!! My whole point was that to immediately start to insinuate that something is wrong, or the lions are questionable, is poor sportsman ethics at the very least! | |||
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The lion quota in Sabie is very limited. Kendall was only able to upgrade his hunt from leopard to lion due to a client not taking a lion on a previous hunt, thus freeing up the quota. I have a lion hunter booked for next year but we must wait and see what is going to happen on the lion quota as it is determined annually and can fluctuate year after year. I have never seen more than two lion per season be allocated but I am not privy to the specifics governing that quota. I do know it is very small. McDonald is the outfitter of record there so I do not wish to get into his business but he has a very good relationship with KNP so there's no nonsense occuring here as was implied. I simply get the quota from him if he has it available. I will say that the hunting there is free ranging and the area produces very nice trophies. My company operates in SA and I did not yet have a PH licensed to hunt in M'bique so in this case I was serving more as agent than operator although I was there personally for the first stages of the safari. Ken Moody | |||
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hey i fly Sandy's clients into Moz and i flew clients of yours into Sabie last year Ken, i think i met you at the southern sun after the Cohagans hunt. all i can say is that Sabie is not fenced and man it produces some awesome lion every year. Hey Aaron - that big cat has settled in the area along with three other companions... thinks are starting to pick up nicely | |||
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Ken : Congrats to your client Kendall on taking a nice lion. Please if you can, provide The Hunting Report a better photograph. The blood splattered lion photo is not the best way to showcase such a superb trophy. Is there any way to give THR a photo without so much blood? The bloody photo is fine for the client's personal album, but that's not something that's in good taste to be circulated on the Internet. | |||
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+1 on what Marc said. A great trophy really deserves a proper presentation of photos. Bloody pics simply don't do it and can cause trouble for all. Best to shooter, PH and outfitter! A wonderful Lion. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Aron I gave an answer to the question from Brett on the location of Sabie i think i was correct on this? I also mention that this a Kruger lions i guess that is also correct? I did not say it was a canned or drugged lion or it was wrong for the Hunter to shoot it nor did comment on the quality or age of the lion! Simply that this lions coming from the KNP! It is a simple fact that there is no other viable lion population in the southern parts of Mozambique and there was basically nothing left to shoot after the war. We all know how in the old Coutada 16 which is now Limpopo National Park the lion hunting was done even in these days the lions came from Kruger! A fence is not an obstacle a lion cannot overcome but there are reasons for a cat to change territory. This could be food, competition from other lions, more attractive females, better habitat etc. It is not unbelievable to me that lion cross easily the Kruger fence for an attractive reason and maybe sometimes just because they feel like it. But mostly for one of the above mention reasons. However to move in to a new area he would have to find an area which free of a resident pride or fight with the resident males and chase them away! So how big of an area is needed to support a pride of lions? What are the home ranges of prides in different habitats? Are you the expert? The dreamed up numbers come from Zimbabwe parks board for the campfire program I did not know that they did not know what they are doing? I always respected they professional opinion of the Zim Parks board in regard to managing wild unfenced areas! The annual quotas for any legal operation in Mozambique a published in the news paper so the number of 5 lions is correct. Plus 4 elephant for 2010 on a recommended off take rate of 0.75% of population (needed 533 elephants to get the 0.75% of take) but that are just dreamed up numbers by some scientist. The real experts are on the internet! As to the question of fence what are you call the 50km 3 meter high fence line reinforced by railway tracks along the eastern boundary? You want some pictures? I was there in July 2006 during the building of the fence! Was anyone of you there? I don’t call myself an expert but working for 16 years in this sector and field in Mozambique I think I am a little more informed of what’s going on in Mozambique then as some sales agent in the US. And by the way the reference to poor sportsman ethics must be joke of yours? This operator has single handed done more damage to lion hunting and hunting in generally then anyone ells and shooting drugged lions along the fence got nothing to do with sportsmanship IMO and sportsman ethics is between sportsmen only! Your question “”continually shooting too many lions, how in the world do they keep shooting GOOD LIONS??????”” maybe you find out one day or ask an expert! don't worry i don't know what i am talking about  i am no expert | |||
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Freischuetz - Ya, you're probably right! I'm just some sales agent from the U.S., who really doesn't know a whole lot about lions, lion hunting, or anything else lion, so I will just be quiet now. Yes, I've seen the fence you are referring too, and yes I've been there. I assume your reference to the "outfitter" is Sandy, not Mr. Moody?? And yes, I am very familiar with the allegations you mention. And yes, the blanket percentages you mention offered by the Zimbabwe CAMPFIRE program are nothing more than that, a blanket percentage, of little to no value anywhere. Funny, I would have thought you knew something about it yourself??? As for "shooting good lions", and lion management, you're right, maybe I will find out about how that works one day. But if not, I can obviously ask you, the "expert". I do appreciate the info on the exact quota however. Have a nice day, and sorry for the intrusion. | |||
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Very nice cat congrats to the hunter. | |||
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Hey Aaron, How many Lions have you personally (not clients) taken now? 25, I think is your current count? Not to worry, someday, if you work hard(er) you may be considered an expert by our friends in Africa. BTW, I would think that Coutada 11 has more than 533 Ele all by itself, but what do I know, after all I'm no expert either. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Freischuetz, Why don't you enlighten us about who you are and then maybe credibility can be attached. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Me and you both brother!!  | |||
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I am not sure of the argument here. Are some contending that this is a wild lion? I have been offered this same hunt several times and the success is 100%. Sorry guys but given that Sandy is involved at all says canned lion. I hope the hunter was not duped. Just curious what the argument is about? Larry York, SC | |||
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if i recall correctly, Sandy McDonald had his PH license suspended/ sanctioned/ whatever a few years back for some sort of unethical/ illegal conduct in RSA. wish i could remember the exact details but do recall that it was a big deal at the time. i think SCI even went so far as to suspend his membership and for their "ethics" committee to take such action the situation must have been have been a real cock-up. the lion in this post is certainly a great trophy and one can only hope that the hunt was as advertised. i guess more will be revealed. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Sounds very interesting. I don't have any thoughts about this particular lion hunt one way or the other. But, I have had a number of messages stating that due to the sad reputation the farmed lion industry in South African got into, it seems a number of them are trucked into other countries and shot as wild animals. Again, I have no proof of this, but some the rumours do come from what I consider very reliable sources. If this is true, I cannot imagine how long it will be before what we consider as normal lion hunts are painted with the same shame as the farmed lions. | |||
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I certainly hope I never see that day!!! Some of the privately held conservancies worry me as the most likely sights for this abuse if and when it happens. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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This hunt was 100% legal and legitimate. To imply otherwise would be to lie. But heh, don't let the truth get in the way of some good gossip or heresay. One should simply congratulate the hunter instead of attempting a smear compaign. Those hunting Africa should at least give the appearance of being gentlemen. Yes, there were several good photos taken of the lion. I have them all but I did not submit this report and really don't know who did. I do admit the photo provided is a bit 'rough.' Ken Moody | |||
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Firstly, Congrats to the Hunter on great cat. well done. Ken Moody: Ignore the detractors mate, there will always be someone who knows better, knows more or who casts a shadow.Like you said, it was legally hunted end of story. Aaron: If you are not a Lion expert by now then there certainly is no hope for the rest of us. Your posts are always informative and enjoyable on topics like this. To the naysayers, until someone has definitive proof of wrong doing, would it not be better to congratulate a fellow hunter on a job well done. | |||
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Ken, first I am not sure who you were responding to but my post was not suggesting anything illegal, just the wildness of the lion. Thanks for clearing up the 100% legal and legitimate. I have many friends that have taken their lion in SA for example and I think all correctly knew that it was a released lion. This is one of those hunting options that many enjoy and if done openely and properly I personally have no issue with it. This is a very nice cat and the hunter is proud I am sure. There are just many with very poor reputations in this area that are tied to this story so we will all think what we will think. This means no negative reference to you. I am with Saeed in how this affects the wild lion hunting. If done openly and properly (no drugs) then for many this is ok, if done as disquiaed as wild lions and under drugs, then it taints us all and the future is dim. York, SC | |||
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Saeed - In my opinion, the only thing that will paint "normal" lion hunts with the same brush as "farmed" lions hunts. Is SPREADING MORE rumors, such as some are doing on this thread, although admitting they have no "proof" of anything at all. For the life of me, I'll never understand why people do that?? If your sources have proof, they should bring it forward to the hunting community, obviously they have none, or they would. We've all heard stories of guys bringing lions to other SA bordering countries, but never seen any proof of it?? I am not saying for certain it doesn't happen, but I would never spread a rumor of such magnitude, without proof either! Yes, we all know Sandy's past. That certainly doesn't mean Mr. Moody is or has done the same. Lots of insinuations, but no proof. Mr. Moody already stated this hunt was 100% legit. | |||
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 p.s. Congrats on an awesome lion | |||
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This is my last post on the subject. The lion was, of course, very much a wild lion. Sabie has lion residing there year 'round. Have they come into the area from KNP. Obviously some have given the proximity to the park but that does not make them less wild. Kruger lions are 100% wild lion as everyone should know. With the huge numbers of plains game in Sabie, lion will reside there as long as that food source is available and believe me, it is available. This particular client was booked on a leopard hunt but unfortunately, every bait set had lion on it keeping the leopard off. The area was literally full of lion. As one permit was available for lion, he upgraded for a nomimal fee and took this great lion, which was shot near the end of a fourteen day hunt. Again, totally legal, legitimate, wild lion shot in a free range setting. Sabie is NOT enclosed. Ken Moody | |||
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A lot of times a man is judged by the company he keeps!! Enough said. Larry Sellers SCI Life Member | |||
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Can somebody please enlighten us as to what Sandy hase done before that got him this bad reputation? | |||
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Or alot of times, if he's being judged by grown ups, he's judged by how he handles adversity. In Sandy's case he's paid his pennance for an incident which occured a decade or so ago in which he was featured in an undercover TV documentary made in England which focused on exposing the canned lion shooting industry in SA. Sandy booked a SA lion hunt for a 'client' who presented himself as an English business man interested in shooting a lion. The so called client stressed his desire to ensure the hunt was drama free and, as a result of this request, was booked on a canned shoot. While the activity was not illegal the show used unrelated stock footage and built a slickly edited anti hunting segment which aired in Europe and in SA on the show Carte Blanche. As a result of the public outcry against canned shooting of lion generated by this documentary, Sandy was scapegoated and made to bear the brunt of ridicule heaped upon the entire canned lion hunting scene. While many, many other large operators offered the same type hunt, Sandy was singled out and held up for censorship in an attempt to appease everyone head hunting at the time. Sandy never made excuses but stood up and took the heat. He pubicly apologized and, I believe, was totally contrite. In speaking with him years ago he told me it was a horrible experience but he learned from it and would never jeopardize his name and reputation again. To date, he has not been involved in any undesirable hunting activities to my knowledge. Every dealing I've had with him has been on the up and up. If it were not, I would not be involved in Sabie at all. It is easy to cast stones but to do so without any knowledge regarding why is very sad indeed. Sandy has paid in full for his mistake. Ken Moody | |||
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Ken, Thank you. Then in my book Sandy did not do anything wrong. I am not sure how many of these lions are shot each year, but I am absolutely certain those who participate in them know full well what they are getting into. And if they claim otherwise they are lying. | |||
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