I was looking at another hunting website and came across this atrocity:

http://youtu.be/s7uf9gqrOQs

I don't know how to paste this video up but someone in South Africa needs to make a noise about this. No way can this be vaguely construed as hunting. Disgusting.

The video said they had broken through a fence into a paddock where they didn't belong. If they were to be shot rather than attempting a recapture, just call it a culling and use your rifle to start with - and don't post a video! But if they needed removed, why not hunt them on foot and make it a fair hunt?

What a bloody jerk!



Good hunting
CF

I think the buffalo was just mad they weren't dropping off a bale of hay for him.

Making noise, thanks for posting!

quote:

Originally posted by PSmith:
I think the buffalo was just mad they weren't dropping off a bale of hay for him.

That's what I was thinking at the start of the video.

Why did they think that the footage should go out on the Internet? Unbelievable.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Why did they think that the footage should go out on the Internet? Unbelievable.

Mark

Because they were badass Buffalo bow hunters maybe? Somehow I could see that same "hunt" happening in a corral in Texas or somewhere.

Jim

Totally unacceptable.
This looks like a typical Buffalo from a breeding project. It is not totally uncommon for those bulls to become aggressive towards a vehicle like that. The PH thinks he's the cats whiskers doesn't he ? I hope some S African AR member who recognizes the guy will tell him that he's a bloody moron. My blood pressure is hitting red , I'm getting myself a scotch..

quote:

Originally posted by PSmith:
Question for you gents, aren't such bulls as this worth a great deal of money? I obviously don't know a damn thing about South Africa and livestock. But here in the USA, if your neighbor's horse or bull jumps the fence and comes on your land, you really don't just go out and shoot it unless it is really a menace.

Paul,

In RSA those bulls were privately owned, likely by the game rancher/outfitter who sponsored the hunt. Each bull is worth $14,000, which is a lot money.

In RSA the game on the private land is owned by the land owner, even if it migrates onto the private land from outside - hence, the high fences to keep their game and investment on their own lands.

Culling $14,000 animals is obviously not very profitable, and having a client take the animal and pay the trophy fee is a far more preferable outcome from the land owners perspective. This is also likely true from the PH's perspective, since the PH is not paid by the land owner/outfitter to loose money for him. If the PH screws this up and causes a loss of $14,000, he may loose his job.

IMO, the ownership and game ranching issues as well as thousands of dollars involved in this episode should be factored into judgements regarding the PH's actions.

Would I behave differently in RSA, given this situation? I'm not sure, especially since the client was a bow hunter and getting a bow hunter close enough to kill an aggressive Southern buffalo is no easy task. Asking him to get off the truck could have been suicide. Maybe I would elect to comeback later and hunt only with a gun, but the same problem may have developed and the client may now decline the hunt - he wants to use his bow.

AIU

When breeding buffaloes in South Africa sell for $4 mil. a pop - this is going to be the future of buffalo hunting.

They will walk right up to the truck in anticipation of a meal.

Mike

What a bunch of BS! Who in their right mind would post this video? Damn shame

" It actually made me sick to think how close I came to falling out of the truck that day"

This was a most pathetic attempt to shoot an animal with a bow, and with some real issues on the tuning of his arrows or a lack of poundage. May even feel sorry for the guy who shot this buffalo if he had to pay for it or thought this was a hunt, lol.

AIU,what do you think this buffalo would score in SCI?

The question is. Was it a buffalo hunt or a cull hunt? While it would not fit my definition of a Buffalo hunt It is not for me to say. The landowner would have every right sell this animal and to harvest it in any humane method he chooses. It is unfortunate that they chose a bow that was not up to the job.

don't consider that as humane...PATHETIC AND EMBARRASSING

I always wondered what the true definition of pure shit was. I just had an epiphany. Now I know.


Dutch

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
.PATHETIC AND EMBARRASSING

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Kebco:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
.PATHETIC AND EMBARRASSING

+1

+1 AGAIN

just horrible

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Why did they think that the footage should go out on the Internet? Unbelievable.

Mark

Because they do not know any better!

Because that is how they do ALL their "hunts".

Excuse me while I go and be ill.

Paul, are you sure he was chasing hay and not not his mamma's tit? Shot from the gari on 2,0000 acres with a bow, standing there like a holstein. (What was his name? He should at least get a good memorial).

Piss poor shooting with bad equipment as well. Can't stand to see animals suffer needlessly. Certainly no need for it especially if you are simply slaughtering them. But what do you expect from complete schlocks?

quote:

Originally posted by PSmith:
I think the buffalo was just mad they weren't dropping off a bale of hay for him.

exactly...tame!

Where have you guys been? wounded long-suffering death is common in bow hunting. That's why bow hunters wait an hour or two before they try to recover their animal - give'm time to die before you walk up and scare them off. I think with Cape buffalo the problem even becomes more of an issue. I witnessed a similar event, while rifle hunting in RSA a few years back. Three "elite" bow hunters filled an angry Cape buffalo full of arrows and still couldn't kill it. It was killed by a back-up guide with a 500 Nitro Epress after it charged. The buffalo looked like a pen cushion. But, bow hunting of buffalo and elephants and wildebeest and the like is legal in much of Africa. Yet, one must use a .375 caliber or more, if you hunt with a rifle. Strange but true...money talks, and bow hunters can pay for the trophies.

Whether cull or not the bow was obviously an after thought and thoroughly irresponsible.

This has no place on the internet.

Andrew, within the currently accepted "ethics" of bow-hunting there was nothing unethical about that bow shot - the bull was in range and the arrow entered a proper spot for a kill. Also, it was likely - although I don't know for certain - a 80# draw, DG compatible, compound bow and legitimate 1000 gr. arrow (850 gr is usually considered the minimum). Many Cape buffalo have died from similar shots, but with longer follow-up time for death. (In fact there is a separate You Tube video of such a hunt with similar arrow placement and penetration. see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqlbO1m8ZAM ). In this case the PH was pressured to finish the bull, because there were other "angry" potentially aggressive buffalo in the area.

One can argue it's unethical to shoot from the truck, but that's also legal in RSA - the game rancher and/or game owner makes the rules. He owns the game and he has the legal right to dispense with it as he chooses.

Personally, I do not condone shooting buffalo or elephant with bow and arrow - but I don't make the rules.

This is bow hunting on game ranches in the RSA. Right or wrong, ethical or unethical, it is their game. I finding it hard to judge them.

AIU

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Andrew, within the currently accepted "ethics" of bow-hunting there was nothing unethical about that bow shot - the bull was in range and the arrow entered a proper spot for a kill. Also, it was likely a 80# draw, DG compatible, compound bow and legitimate 1000 gr. arrow. Many Cape buffalo have dies with similar shots, but with longer follow-up time for death. In this case the PH was pressured to finish the bull, because there were "angry" potentially aggressive buffalo in the area.

One can argue it's unethical to shoot from the truck, but that's also legal in RSA - the game rancher and/or game owner makes the rules. He owns the game and he has the legal right to dispense with it as he chooses.

Personally, I do not condone shooting buffalo or elephant with bow and arrow - but I don't make the rules.

AIU

Noel,

It is obvious that this chap was not equipped for large animals and it was more a case of lets try and see what happens. Note they also managed to put an arrow in it's backside. It was a piss poor show all round.

quote:

Originally posted by shotgun46:
The question is. Was it a buffalo hunt or a cull hunt?

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Where have you guys been? wounded long-suffering death is common in bow hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Can't stand to see animals suffer needlessly.
Certainly no need for it especially if you are simply slaughtering them.

With all the above points in mind,...

I know for a fact that animals that are exclusively hunted are more often treated more humanely that those taken on culls.

People involved in culling can intentionally leave a string of wounded animals stretched over hundreds of meters,
then when the shooting spree is finally over,they go back along the line of wounded-immobilised animals to finish
them off.
Such method of culling was described to me as a humane efficient killing method, by of all people,a hunting guide who posts AR.

Just watched this video....as one of my sons would say, "how gay".

Agreed, this 'hunt' is appalling. But don't condemn archery hunting as ineffective or inhumane. A good hit from the right broad head will kill just as quickly as any bullet out there. All but one of my bow killed deer have died within 50-60 yards of where I shot them, and I heard each one collapse within seconds of the shot.

I've had hogs and deer hit with everything from .270 to .35 make longer dashes even though they didn't have a heart or lungs. Whether broad head or bullet, tear up the heart and lungs and the animal will die within seconds, how far it travels on its last breath is totally unpredictable.

To my mind, there are no ethical issues with bow hunting so long as you meet all the same prerequisites as with any other type of hunting. Match your gear to the game, practice, practice, practice, get real close, and then get closer.

All that said, I do believe some animals are just too big. This would include large bovine and up in my mind. Though I suppose lots of quickly dispatched bow-killed elk would beg to differ. Just a personal belief.

This video brings up the issue of bow hunting in general, but especially of large game animals like buffalo, elephant, eland, wildebeest, and the like.

I'm not prepared to render a judgment.

Besides, rifle hunters wound buffalo and other game too. We are not without some moral culpability for this problem.

I'm guilty of wounding game - both by rifle and bow. I've tried my best to keep it to a minimum, but when I've done it, I feel sick to my stomach, and pray that I can follow-up and collect the animal.

Having hunted with both rifle and bow, in my experience it's more easy to wound and loose game hunting with a bow.

I don't have the necessary skills to hunt buffalo or elephant with a bow, and thus far, I haven't. I probably never will.

quote:

Originally posted by 35whelenman:
Agreed, this 'hunt' is appalling. But don't condemn archery hunting as ineffective or inhumane. A good hit from the right broad head will kill just as quickly as any bullet out there. All but one of my bow killed deer have died within 50-60 yards of where I shot them, and I heard each one collapse within seconds of the shot.

I've had hogs and deer hit with everything from .270 to .35 make longer dashes even though they didn't have a heart or lungs. Whether broad head or bullet, tear up the heart and lungs and the animal will die within seconds, how far it travels on its last breath is totally unpredictable.

To my mind, there are no ethical issues with bow hunting so long as you meet all the same prerequisites as with any other type of hunting. Match your gear to the game, practice, practice, practice, get real close, and then get closer.

All that said, I do believe some animals are just too big. This would include large bovine and up in my mind. Though I suppose lots of quickly dispatched bow-killed elk would beg to differ. Just a personal belief.

I think someone states on the film that the equipment was inadequate? I am not a bow hunter so would not know. However talking to Thor Kirchner who is and has just conducted a bow hunt in the Luangwa stated that all arrows shot disappeared into the animals and the hunter took both Buffalo and Hippo with single arrows.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
This video brings up the issue of bow hunting in general, but especially of large game animals like buffalo, elephant, eland, wildebeest, and the like.

I'm not prepared to render a judgment.

Besides, rifle hunters wound buffalo and other game too. We are not without some moral culpability for this problem.

I'm guilty of wounding game - both by rifle and bow. I've tried my best to keep it to a minimum, but when I've done it, I feel sick to my stomach, and pray that I can follow-up and collect the animal.

Having hunted with both rifle and bow, in my experience it's more easy to wound and loose game hunting with a bow.

I don't have the necessary skills to hunt buffalo or elephant with a bow, and thus far, I haven't. I probably never will.

The problem is the general public has been raised on Hollywood - where anything alive shot is either dies instantly or blown to smithereens!

Reality is not like that at all - whether in hunting or where animals kill and eat other animals.

An animal shot through the chest might take a few minutes to die - that is the way things are.

And sometimes no matter how many bullets you put into them, it does not speed up the process unless you get very close and brain them.

if you look at the broad head used it a 3 bladed one with thin replaceable blade. fine for deer hunting but definitely not recommended by people with experience in heavy dangerous game. the accepted standard is a heavy, double blade on a heavy arrow. i have no idea of the bow draw weight but the broad head election was simply wrong. at 5 yards( about the distance on the first shot) the proper equipment should have buried the shaft and been quickly lethal

I don't know how the "hunter" Marty could hold his head up after that.

Charl

If you know the guys give me a call please.

Guys as a south african and outfitter and hunter sorry this is a case off 10 days wonder and giving us all a bad name.

Luan

quote:

Originally posted by luan:
Charl

If you know the guys give me a call please.

Guys as a south african and outfitter and hunter sorry this is a case off 10 days wonder and giving us all a bad name.

Luan

Luan,

I am afraid there are a lot of South Africans out there who are giving you all a bad name.

You might want to start with those advertising - and promising - TOP SCI trophies.

It is all CANNED and they show it as free range.

Saeed

That is very true and its a very bad apple on our side but hopefully everybody will see there are some great guys in south africa that will do everything to get clients the whole safari deal just not the top trophies.

Luan

Luan,

I do not know them, but I passed it onto PHASA.

We will hear what they have to say. It's Bullshit though, and I know why the called it a "cull" as a problem animal......then it there is an excuse as to why it was shot from the truck....

Would love to know who the "PH" was and if they had a permit for a bow hunt or the property if the property have bow hunt exemption.....

AIU - " wounded long suffering death is common in bow hunting, that's why bow hunters wait an hour to recover game"

I'm going to have to speak for a huge population of experienced bow hunters when I say u sir have not a frigen clue about bow hunting from your inappropriate and totally inaccurate comments!! Allow me to educate yourself in regards to bow hunting as I have enjoyed it for over 19 yrs.

If one is competent with archery gear,knows the limits of his abilitiesand also his equipment, ethical one shot kills become the norm rather than the exception!

There is no need to wait for an hour or more if a well placed shot has occurred especially with today's modern aged super bows and broad heads. In fact due to hotter weather earlier in the year you would be an absolute fool to wait that long to recove a downed animal as it slowly begins to spoil in the heat!!!!

As far as large bodied animals are concerned, and I have been privileged enough to harvest 2 bull elk and one bull moose, all we're pass pass threw shots and these rutted up animals never went further than 70 yards and I heard them crash and expire within seconds of the shots!!!! Three weeks ago I was fortunate to harvest my first wolf that I hit threw the front sholder and also heard him expire within 70yards!!

Please keep in mind I have no scientific studies to back up my 19 yrs of archery experience just what I have learned and witnessed personally, the cold hard truth.

I'm hoping for your case, your comments were not based on your personal experiances as that would seem to be as pathetic as the film in question however, if you are basing " your facts on your experiences" I am willing to take you under my wing and show you the way that a real bow hunter hunts and shoots ethically and humanly!

Pm myself if needed

Regards