If one is hunting Cape buffalo with a 9.3 X 62 is he better off with a 300 grain A-Frame or a solid of similar weight?

I have killed a few cape buff.
The only one that was a one shot kill was with my 9,3x74R with a 286gr Woodleigh Soft.

I did have a 286 Woodleigh Solid in the left bbl, but I was only able to get off the one shot.

The buff was down and dead in less than 40 yards.

I do consider the 9,3's, and the 375 H&H to be a little light for buff, but well handled they work great.

Badly handled even a 600 Nitro will get you some drama.

If I was hunting buff with a 9,3x62 bolt rifle I would have my Soft of choice in the chamber, and back it up with Solids in the Magazine.

I have used the 286gr Woodleigh Softs and Solids in my 9,3x74R on game from turkeys and caracel to giraffe, buff and elephant, with excellent results.

I see no reason why the 300gr Swift would not be a great Soft for the 9,3x62 bolt rifle.

Always a soft! There is never a reason to initiate a buffalo hunt with a solid. I used a 9,3x62 on most of the buffalo erradication culls in Western Zimbabwe. A 9,3 solid makes a very small hole in a buffs heart and it can go a darn long way with such a hole. A flat nosed solid like a barnes banded will help, but... Buff heart shot with a Norma or Kynock solid would sometimes go 1-2 km. Hit through the lungs is even worse. I followed up a buff that had taken a .375 solid through both lungs - and it was full of fight 12 hrs later when we caught up with it.

For the culls I quickly settled on Norma soft points, or even RWS TUG's. They got the job done just fine. Today I use Ken Stuarts 286grn flat nosed soft points - but the swift A frame is a very good bullet. Much better than I had on the culls!

Have you tried the 320gr Woodleighs yet for buffalo? I killed three with a 9,3X74R and 286 Woodleigh softs while hunting birds and PG with combo guns in 12ga and 9,3. I am presently working on loads for the 320s for the Simson drilling and my 9,3X62 Husqvarna.

Another example of why never to use a solid for the first shot on buff- On one of the culls a local farmer was using a 416 Rigby - with kynock ammo. When the dust settled, the farmers went home to a G&T and the government types got to do the follow ups of wounded animals that had escaped. I followed up a big bull, which was leaving only scatered faint blood spoor.

4 hrs later I faced a charge in thick scrub and only dropped the bull a few meters from me. I cut it open to find out what had gone wrong since there was a hole dead centre in the chest, and I couldn't belive that the buff had gone so far. The heart and lungs were undamaged. The bullet had slipped between them, pushing blood vessels etc asside. Even the bruising was very moderate. I recovered the bullet in the small intestines. A soft would have ripped open a channel in both lungs and may well have cut the aurta that the solid brushed asside.

Solids on Buff? For a free state heart shot by the PH, perhaps. I don't. I back my clients with a soft (althogh these days with the double I usually load one of each). For a client, or a citizen hunter? Never. Even an indiferent soft beats a great solid.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
If one is hunting Cape buffalo with a 9.3 X 62 is he better off with a 300 grain A-Frame or a solid of similar weight?

This is the ONE thing that I agree with from Ganyana! Always use a soft. It is topic of the self-fulfilling prophesy story in my book.

So Ganyana, no need for the average client to bother loading and bringing along solids for his next buff hunt?? A premium soft, and that's it...

Or do solids still have a place - e.g. soft up, solid in magazine??

- mike

I have had good results with both the 300grn A-Frames and Woodleigh solids in 286 and 320grn.
On my last safari to northern Moz, the PH requested that I use the solids as the shot would need to be taken through the thickets .
It turned out a good idea as on the first shot the bullet past through a branch.
The buff traveled about 60m and the 320grn 9.3 solids passed on through where the 286grn solids are generally found under the far side skin.

9.3mm 300grn A-FRAME and 286grn Woodleigh Solids from some Cape Buffalo.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Always a soft! ................

I quite agree with Ganyana. I would go one further and say that there is hardly ever, or even never, [Yes, I know, never is a nong time] any reason to use solid on a buffalo. This is said, not so much on masses of buffalo hunting experience, as Ganyana can claim, but by carefully studying the diagrammes in African Hunter Shot Placement Guide, and what can be regarded as common knowledge about how a charging buffalo holds its head. A charging buffalo holds it's head high, more or less, or even higher than, as shown in the diagram of buffalo from the front. Now look at where the hard horn bosses - that will require a solid to reliably [?] penetrate - are in relation to where the brain is situated. The only bone that a bullet has to penetrate to reach the brain of a charging buffalo is the relatively thin skull, or soft and very thin sinus bones. Almost any soft, and certainly any premium quality soft, fired from a reasonable caliber rifle will very reliably penetrate the skull bone and destroy the brain. Destroyed brain = End of charge!

If you let the buffalo get so close in a charge that it has lowered its head for the final dig at you, so that the only way to destroy the brain is by shooting through the boss, well, I did acknowledge that never is a long time!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

If you use a soft it must be a good one. A Frames are good, as are some others. I would rather use a solid than any cup and core factory load.

mho- a man should always have a few solids on him in elephant country.

I discourage the use of solids on buffalo, even for follow up shots, and especially from a caliber like a 9,3 which has a tendency to over penetrate. Most clients see the buff they want, lock onto him and when he runs see only him. Whilst I try not to shoot out of a herd, there are occasions, and even dagga boys are seldom alone. On any raking shot a good soft is a far better choice. the ONLY time you need a solid is for a true free state heart shot. And the number of times those do any good is questionable.

I would rather wait- even if the client has shot poorly, than add a volume of fire to a retreating buff. if only one or two shots are fired, he will not go far, but will be very alert for a good half hour afterwards. Take a break, brew up some coffee, and then go and take a fresh crack at him once he has relaxed and stiffened up. That way, I can be reasonably certain of the client getting a second chance at a good killing shot and me not having to shoot his buff. Doesn't always work But mostly - enough to convince me (an impatient man on a good day) to take it slow. It is also much easier to follow up a wounded buff that isn't bleeding much for 500m than riddle him with marginal hits and have a 3 mile hike with poor spoor to even get one glimpse of him. Work on an extra 500m per shot fired as how far a wounded (not fatally hit) buff will run before it stops to catch it's wind and watch it's back trail.

OK....now that "softs" are in order for buffalo and I'm a big fan of A-Frames....is there a better soft point bullet?

Thanks Ganyana! Straight from the horse's mouth...
- mike

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
OK....now that "softs" are in order for buffalo and I'm a big fan of A-Frames....is there a better soft point bullet?

No

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
OK....now that "softs" are in order for buffalo and I'm a big fan of A-Frames....is there a better soft point bullet?

No

Coming from Will and such a straight answer I'll take it as good advice!

Ganyana,

With regards the 9.3x62mm, any thoughts on how suitable the 286gn Barnes X would be for Buff?

Regards,

Pete

Hi Pete. If you can drive them fast enough...and with some of the newer powders you might. I tried the original X bullets years ago with S335 and S341 and couldn't get them over 2150fps without signs of high pressure. The 9,3 is a safe minimum at normal loadings, drop the velocity by a couple hundred fps and you are getting marginal.

I Like the TSX and would choose it in the .375, just don't know if you can squeeze the performance out of a 9,3 case... Perhaps the 250grn X and S355 powder - South Africans- any body tried that? A 250grn TSX at 2500fps would be great.

I personally think the 286 grs TSX is a tad much bullet for the 9.3x62. It is an awfully long bullet for a small case. Unless you are capable of loading it waaay out (magazine and freebore permitting), it will rob a lot of room in the case.

With the 250 grs TSX, however, it is no great feat to reach 2600 fps out of a 22" barrel. RL15 is one powder that will do the trick.

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
A 250grn TSX at 2500fps would be great.

61-62 gr of R903 will get you there.

P.S. or 59-60gr of IMR4895 or 56-57gr of VV135.

Gents,

Thanks for that.. I am currently shooting the older variety of 286grn Barnes (XFB?) over 58grns of RL-15 and it groups under an inch, but I've never run it over a chrony...I have some of the new .286grn TSX so I hope I don't loose too much velocity out of them..

Regards,
Pete

I have used the 320 gr. Woodleighs on buffalo in my 9.3x62, but I loaded it to 2350 FPS plus a tad in a 26 inch tube..It worked great for broadside shots, and backed up with Northfork cup points it was fine...I have also had good luck with the 286 gr. Noslers, they are a tough bullet. The 9.3x62 compares favorably with the .338 Win. on Buffalo or so it seems to me..

That said, I still like my .375 and better yet my 40 calibers on buffalo.

I shot a west African savanna buffalo this past January with my 9.3x62 and the factory loaded Lapua 270 grain Naturalis bullet. This bullet performs similarly to the x-bullet concept of a solid monometal projectile that retains 100% of it's weight yet reliably expands to 1.5x its diameter. The buffalo dropped to a shot through the shoulder with the bullet lodging under the hide on the offside.

While smaller than the cape buffalo I would not hesitate to use this combo again on either sub-species provided I could take the time to place my bullet precisely where I wanted it. It is certainly not a charge stopper but is an effective minimum for buff, IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
... I Like the TSX and would choose it in the .375, just don't know if you can squeeze the performance out of a 9,3 case... Perhaps the 250grn X and S355 powder - South Africans- any body tried that? A 250grn TSX at 2500fps would be great.

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
... With the 250 grs TSX, however, it is no great feat to reach 2600 fps out of a 22" barrel. RL15 is one powder that will do the trick. - mike

I thought this might be on interest.



Cheers!
-Bob F.

Thanks for posting that data, Bob! I don't subscribe to Handloader, so I quickly copied the JPEG to my "Pet Loads" section....

The 9.3x62 really is a very versatile round - loaded with a 250 grs bullet, it rapidly approaches .30-06/180 grs factory ballistics.

- mike

I have used th 250 grain Barnes X and TSX over H414 with great results on Cape buffalo X 3, NW Savahnna buff, and dwarf forest buffalo.

You can get 2500+ fps out of this combo, and it has been astoundingly effective. I think the 250 TSX is a better fit for the 9.3 X 62 than the 286.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
OK....now that "softs" are in order for buffalo and I'm a big fan of A-Frames....is there a better soft point bullet?

No

OK, so Will, what would you prefer, 300 or 250 grs A-frame for buff in a 9,3x62?
The 300 grainer at about 2300fps, the 250 at 2600.

Well Bent - my name is not Will, but I would personally prefer the 300 grs A-frame at 2300 f/s over the 250 at 2600 f/s any day. It will penetrate much better.
If using Barnes TSX then I would go with the 250 grainer in 9,3X62 instead of the 286 grs. But with Swift I will prefer better sec. density / lower velocity and less ekspansion giving better penetration..

If using bullets with a lead core, the issue of the heavy bullets being a tad long for the 9.3x62 case is much less acute.

Lead core bullet => go with a heavy bullet. Mono-metal bullet => think hard about going a notch lighter than you otherwise would...

- mike

In my long tubed 9.3x62 I get 2520 FPS with a 286 gr. bullet and I have used the Nosler in that weight on Buffalo successfully..If I were to use a monolithic I would still opt for the 286 gr. bullet, not the 250 gr. I liked the performance of the 320 gr. Woodleigh on buffalo but I do "think" this bullet needs a long tube to get that extra velocity of 2350 plus FPS..The 9.3 responds well to a long tube IMO..I would not use this bullet in say a 20" barrel as expansion would suffer IMO, and based on some information I gleened from one of Ganyanas posts...

I see the 9.3x62 as a minimum caliber buffalo rifle, and on the plus side of minimum. shots must be placed with care and no mistakes are acceptable, but hey the 06 kills them under those conditions. That same criteria applies to the 600 N. E.

Bottom line? whatever you use you must place a properly constructed bullet in the kill zone...

My choice for Buffalo will still be the big 40s.

Just FYI: I noticed in Norma's 2008 catalog that they are listing a new load for the 9.3x62. It's a 325 gr Norma Oryx at a listed 2300 fps (24" barrel).



The Norma catalog can be downloaded here:
http://www.norma.cc/content.asp?Typ=72&Lang=2&Submeny=1&Rubrik=Download

Cheers!
-Bob F.

I am bringing in a few rifles by Zastava in this caliber on genuine Mauser 98 actions. They are new rifles on reworked actions with iron sights and walnut stocks. Will be circa $650 by the time they get over here. Four weeks plus minus.

We also offer our Bad Boy Mauser (comml) in this caliber.

Steyr is another possibility.

Russ,
That sounds interesting, can you send me a picture of one of them...

sent

Russ

Send me the info and pics on the Zastava in 9.3x62 as well.

Jim

Russ, Why not just post a picture so we can all drool?
Rich Elliott

Russ,

I also would be interested to see the rifle and the stats.

Mark

Does genuine M98 mean military surplus or Charles Daly?

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Hi Pete. If you can drive them fast enough...and with some of the newer powders you might. I tried the original X bullets years ago with S335 and S341 and couldn't get them over 2150fps without signs of high pressure. The 9,3 is a safe minimum at normal loadings, drop the velocity by a couple hundred fps and you are getting marginal.

I Like the TSX and would choose it in the .375, just don't know if you can squeeze the performance out of a 9,3 case... Perhaps the 250grn X and S355 powder - South Africans- any body tried that? A 250grn TSX at 2500fps would be great.

It finally stopped raining on my days off and I made it to the range with one of my 9.3x62 rifles. From a 23" barrel I'm getting just over 2,300 fps with the Barnes 286gr X pushed by 57.0gr of Varget, CCI #200 primer and Graff brass loaded to 3.30". From what I can tell I'm only compressing the powder @0.025" and no pressure signs.

Would that suffice?

(as always no one should believe any reloading data they read on the Internet if they want to live to a ripe old age. work up to these loads as if you suspect i've been drinking tequila and reloading (again)).

Russ,
I didn't get my pictures?

Rick R - Sure would