If the USA fucked with my community project and Royal Kafue folded and they no longer received an income and other social benefits from the game then could my communal Trust sue those responsible?

Royal Kafue is a perpetual model that has the potential to provide for a community forever.

Just how much is that worth?

In a word, no.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
In a word, no.

Ok so you Americans can dictate policy in rural Africa to the detriment of those who live off the game. Is that not colonialism?

If you cannot implement a better model then surely you are liable for compensation?

Dunno Mike I am just asking.

Not a lawyer but the govt screws with businesses here all the time that causes them to fold and we can"t sue. I compete with the USDA all the time on trapping jobs. Why pay the private sector trapper to do a job that the govt trappers will do for "free"?

It would be interesting to see my Chief stand up to yours and start pointing fingers.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
In a word, no.

Ok so you Americans can dictate policy in rural Africa to the detriment of those who live off the game. Is that not colonialism?

If you cannot implement a better model then surely you are liable for compensation?

Dunno Mike I am just asking.

No it economic reality imposed by a government 10k miles away.

Colonialism will be if the U.S. Marines were in Zambia enforcing US economic parties mining contracts.

Sadly no one really gives a f@ck about African hunting other than for domestic social media driven politics.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
It would be interesting to see my Chief stand up to yours and start pointing fingers.

I would pay to see that!

Me too!

But as silly as it is, I don't think how the US "dictates" policy to you. But the US dictates policy to US hunters that damn sure can affect you.


.

quote:

Originally posted by Trapper Tom:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
It would be interesting to see my Chief stand up to yours and start pointing fingers.

I would pay to see that!

What about a deposit?

What you need is a reality TV series - from the perspective of your Chief and his community.

But the guys around here who have TV connections are too obsessed with hunting to be of any value.

It's a bigger story than that - about human-rights, community development and such - which the paranoics around here see as a communist conspiracy (or worse, liberalism).

Hang tough. All the best.

<> <> <>

According to Hillary and Al Gore the first world owes every undeveloped country reparations for something terrible we did, can't remember what, so no need to sue. Just find the appropriate form and fill it out.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
If the USA fucked with my community project and Royal Kafue folded and they no longer received an income and other social benefits from the game then could my communal Trust sue those responsible?

Royal Kafue is a perpetual model that has the potential to provide for a community forever.

Just how much is that worth?

Andrew, the USA cannot fuck with your community project, the USA government can only fuck with USA citizens or USA companies by regulating their travel, imports, exports, and the like.

Of course, this might have indirect effects on your project by making it difficult (or more complicated) for USA hunters to come to Africa with guns and return with their trophies.

I don't think you could sue the USA government and win.

Just a couple of "legal" questions to steer you in the proper direction. Who specifically in the USA do you think you could sue? What are the actions taken which caused you damage? What claim can you make to the loss of revenue?

I think I might be more concerned that the "USA" doesn't come to Africa looking to sue you. Some do gooder from the Humane Society could make a pretty good claim it was your fault some lion named Fred got shot.

What Mike originally said: No, for a myriad of reasons. Jurisdiction, if any, for your civil dispute with the U.S. Government would likely be in The Hague, the Netherlands, under the Hague Convention. Go for it if you feel so inclined. The odds of you prevailing are likely close to zero, however. Just my free legal advice. Sorry Andrew for the bad news.

quote:

Ok so you Americans can dictate policy in rural Africa to the detriment of those who live off the game. Is that not colonialism?

You Americans? That would include me and I guess I wouldn't be welcome in Zambia. Point taken.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
It would be interesting to see my Chief stand up to yours and start pointing fingers.

Set it up in a cage and put it on pay per view. That revenue should cover the community for quite a while.

Cheers
Jm

I would certainly bet on the Zambian! Anything to take down 'our chief' (not mine-I never voted for him). Jim: Good point!

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
It would be interesting to see my Chief stand up to yours and start pointing fingers.

But your Cheif has balls....

Jeff

Bwana Gun has a very valid point.

To directly address the question, Andrew, here in the States, we have this pernicious doctrine called governmental immunity. It's rather ironic, even to the point of hilarity, in that the government can actually tell you what you can sue them for. Guess what? The government doesn't like getting sued any more than anyone else does.

quote:

Originally posted by Gazi:

quote:

Ok so you Americans can dictate policy in rural Africa to the detriment of those who live off the game. Is that not colonialism?

You Americans? That would include me and I guess I wouldn't be welcome in Zambia. Point taken.

X2

I was thinking the same thing!

Anyone can sue for anything. Who is going to put up the retainer?
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Gazi:

quote:

Ok so you Americans can dictate policy in rural Africa to the detriment of those who live off the game. Is that not colonialism?

You Americans? That would include me and I guess I wouldn't be welcome in Zambia. Point taken.

Us Africans speak a little different here. No offence intended.

Andrew, I am sure you can.

Just ask any of the millions of crooked and incompetent lawyers who only survive because of silly litigation.


Governments, everywhere, enact laws that do ruin a lot of people's business, both at home and abroad.

And individuals can not do a bloody thing about it.

The West has been transformed that everyone has to pay lawyers - no matter what you do.

A perfect example why society is going down the drain.

Common sense is no longer taken into consideration.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Andrew, I am sure you can.

Just ask any of the millions of crooked and incompetent lawyers who only survive because of silly litigation.


Governments, everywhere, enact laws that do ruin a lot of people's business, both at home and abroad.

And individuals can not do a bloody thing about it.

The West has been transformed that everyone has to pay lawyers - no matter what you do.

A perfect example why society is going down the drain.

Common sense is no longer taken into consideration.

Seems really strange that a community can suffer due to an uneducated decision from abroad?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Andrew, I am sure you can.

Just ask any of the millions of crooked and incompetent lawyers who only survive because of silly litigation.


Governments, everywhere, enact laws that do ruin a lot of people's business, both at home and abroad.

And individuals can not do a bloody thing about it.

The West has been transformed that everyone has to pay lawyers - no matter what you do.

A perfect example why society is going down the drain.

Common sense is no longer taken into consideration.

Seems really strange that a community can suffer due to an educated decision from abroad?

I think you are assimilating "educated" with "self-interested". The US tries, and frequently succeeds, in hammering anyone and any country which it thinks it can. Hundreds of politicians in the USA are willing to pass laws that impose laws outside of US territoriality on citizens of other countries. This is all in the name of moral high-ground and doing what is "right". It's not just what US citizens do. As an example, don't try to defy a US imposed embargo on a foreign country. If for any reason US dollars are used than you will pay, big time.

US is no different then anyone else
We have plenty of dumb asses/dogooders who wanna tell everyone else what's good for them.
But then Africans are no different ( Botswana ) and others
You frustration pointed at Americans is understandable but ...

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Trapper Tom:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
It would be interesting to see my Chief stand up to yours and start pointing fingers.

I would pay to see that!

What about a deposit?

Booked next year to Argentina and Austria but my wife says I still need a sable. Someday we will talk!

quote:

If the USA fucked with my community project and Royal Kafue folded and they no longer received an income and other social benefits from the game then could my communal Trust sue those responsible?

Now that this has taken nearly a page, what are we talking about here?

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

If the USA fucked with my community project and Royal Kafue folded and they no longer received an income and other social benefits from the game then could my communal Trust sue those responsible?

Now that this has taken nearly a page, what are we talking about here?

Brad lets say for instance that your US Fish and Wildlife decided to ban imports of Lion/Leopard based on a whim which would then adversely affect my community then would they not be eligible for compensation?

It would seem not.

Unless you had a binding contract with the US Fish and Wildlife Service and they then defaulted on said agreement, then and only then would you have a reasonable claim. But as you have been told several times already in this ridiculous thread, you don't have a claim that would pass the laugh test in US courts.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
Unless you had a binding contract with the US Fish and Wildlife Service and they then defaulted on said agreement, then and only then would you have a reasonable claim. But as you have been told several times already in this ridiculous thread, you don't have a claim that would pass the laugh test in US courts.

Just thinking out loud how Africans and dependant communities could stir it up a bit especially when when unqualified and vindictive decisions impact on their lands and incomes.

No harm in asking and hence the title of the thread.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
Unless you had a binding contract with the US Fish and Wildlife Service and they then defaulted on said agreement, then and only then would you have a reasonable claim. But as you have been told several times already in this ridiculous thread, you don't have a claim that would pass the laugh test in US courts.

Just thinking out loud how Africans and dependant communities could stir it up a bit especially when when unqualified and vindictive decisions impact on their lands and incomes.

No harm in asking and hence the title of the thread.

Only people who would win if this was tried, would be the lawyers. One in Zambia and another in the Excited States.

Better I think to focus your marketing strategy on hunters from countries that follow CITES and allow import based on the decisions made by that body. I believe this is something outfitters/operators everywhere need to start thinking about.

quote:

Just thinking out loud how Africans and dependant communities could stir it up a bit especially when when unqualified and vindictive decisions impact on their lands and incomes.

At first glance I thought you were on to something here, organizing a community to inform the general public how real lives have been negatively affected by the whimsical actions of corrupt legislatures. Then I remembered we were talking about black people.....

[/QUOTE]
Just thinking out loud how Africans and dependant communities could stir it up a bit especially when when unqualified and vindictive decisions impact on their lands and incomes.

No harm in asking and hence the title of the thread.[/QUOTE]

How about inviting CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox and anyone else you can think of to come over to meet and talk to the people of your community about the issues surrounding wildlife, then hit them right between the eyes with the importance of hunting dollars and game management.

quote:

How about inviting CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox and anyone else you can think of to come over to meet and talk to the people of your community about the issues surrounding wildlife, then hit them right between the eyes with the importance of hunting dollars and game management.

That would be JUST OUTSTANDING! I doubt any would take you up, but man if they did!


.

quote:

Originally posted by 505 gibbs:

quote:

Just thinking out loud how Africans and dependant communities could stir it up a bit especially when when unqualified and vindictive decisions impact on their lands and incomes.

At first glance I thought you were on to something here, organizing a community to inform the general public how real lives have been negatively affected by the whimsical actions of corrupt legislatures. Then I remembered we were talking about black people.....

How about inviting CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox and anyone else you can think of to ask 505 gibbs to explain the above comment in a little more detail?

<> <> <>

Excellent point JCS271.
Maybe DSC and SCI should offer it to them. Perfect opening for attack. Fairgame, you oughta think about that one and contact those guys from DSC and SCI pronto.
I like it Jay.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

How about inviting CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox and anyone else you can think of to come over to meet and talk to the people of your community about the issues surrounding wildlife, then hit them right between the eyes with the importance of hunting dollars and game management.

That would be JUST OUTSTANDING! I doubt any would take you up, but man if they did!


.

Some places are best kept secret.

Telling the world what a great job you are doing is a good idea. But commercial news organisations come with a massive health warning. Unless you have contracted editorial control (which you are unlikely to be granted) they'll screw you for ratings.

Film and narrate your own story. The crazy people at both ends of the spectrum will be unaffected but the important majority, who are largely uninformed of the truth, are suggestible and respond favourably to facts and logic.

quote:

Originally posted by JCS271:

Just thinking out loud how Africans and dependant communities could stir it up a bit especially when when unqualified and vindictive decisions impact on their lands and incomes.

No harm in asking and hence the title of the thread.[/QUOTE]

How about inviting CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox and anyone else you can think of to come over to meet and talk to the people of your community about the issues surrounding wildlife, then hit them right between the eyes with the importance of hunting dollars and game management.[/QUOTE]

quote:

How about inviting CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox and anyone else you can think of to ask 505 gibbs to explain the above comment in a little more detail?

if you don't understand what I posted, you can ask a specific question.