Leaving for Zimbabwe in two weeks and was asked by the safari camp to bring along primers. I checked various sources and found nothing specifically on transporting primers in your checked luggage.

Has anyone seen any written regulations on same?

Thanks for your reply,
rslus

Are you kidding me??

Consider this: UPS won't even deliver primers without the 20 dollar HAZMAT fee. That is the only clue you should need. No HAZMAT material can fly with pax.

Try it and you could face serious trouble.

This does remind me of a funny story...

I was a young LT (Platoon Leader) stationed at Ft Riley in 1982. My platoon was tasked with loading planes (commerical charters and USAF 141s/C5s) for REFORGER, a drill to simulate reinforcing West Germany.

Anyway, there a USAF Master Sergeant or Senior Master Sergeant (I can't remember exactly - all I know is he had a lot of stripes) who was clearing all loads. I was an airload officer for my unit, so maybe that is how I got snagged for this; can't remember. Anyway, the USAF NCO was really a funny guy. In between loading planes we drank coffee and listened to his war stories. He was hilarious.

On the afternoon of our first day an Army major shows up to clear his manifests. On one he has some spray paint (I think it was spray paint). The USAF SMSgt tells this major that those can't go - they are HAZMAT. So the major starts quoting these USAF rules. They go back and forth, back and forth. The major leaves and comes back with some other reference. The SMSgt says "Sir, the stuff ain't flying."

They go back and forth for hours it seemed like.

The major threatens to call some other senior officer. The SMSgt calmly looks at the major and says, "Sir, do you really want to get that stuff on a plane?"

The major says, "Yes."

The SMSgt hands him this pipe wrench. He says, "Get another guy to carry the spray paint. You take this pipe wrench and go out to that C141 over there. Take the pipe wrench and start beating on the far starboard engine as hard as you can. When the crew chief comes out of the plane to see what the hell is going on, have the other guy throw the paint in the back of the plane. Short of that, this stuff ain't flying so get out of here please and let me do my job."

I busted out laughing. The major looks at me and says, "What are you laughing at lieutenant?"

"Nothing Sir" I said.

Hard to believe this is for real. You wouldn't live long enough to see daylight again.

Primers are technically explosives so airlines are not keen on them. However, I don't see much difference between a box of 100 primers and a box of 20 factory loads. Both are packaged correctly and safely. Both would make a big bang etc if detonated but that's extremely unlikely. If anything, the ammo would make more smoke and fire than the primers.

I would put them (one or two boxes taped closed) in my (locked metal) ammo box and plead ignorance if challenged.

I think this pretty much covers your question:
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm
You can roll the dice if you want, just make sure the guys on the other end can pay the $10K fine.

Russ:

I hope your advice regarding hunts is better than that you gave here.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
Primers are technically explosives so airlines are not keen on them. However, I don't see much difference between a box of 100 primers and a box of 20 factory loads. Both are packaged correctly and safely. Both would make a big bang etc if detonated but that's extremely unlikely. If anything, the ammo would make more smoke and fire than the primers.

I would put them (one or two boxes taped closed) in my (locked metal) ammo box and plead ignorance if challenged.

If he were to get caught ignorance would not help. He has everything to lose and nothing to gain for what is essentially a "favor".

quote:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

Hmmm, a few months back, I went through LA and Chicago with two disassembled rifles in my unlocked softside, stuffed in among my dirty laundry. No one cared. They went out a year and a half earlier in a big cardboard box. My new travel rifle fits (broken down) in my hardside, so I won't have to try my luck again...

The TSA regs only prohibit (specifically) BLACK POWDER AND CAPS FOR BLACK POWDER GUNS. Primers are not black powder caps, and I like to do people favors where I can, esp in Zim. If TSA doesn't like it, they simply remove it so there's no big deal. $5 down the drain. So RAC, I think you are being a little dramatic there.

AZ writer, aren't you the guy that asked me for a free Nyala hunt a while back, promising to write an article? Perhaps you are still mad at me because I declined? Can't tell, because everything on your website and your profile on AR is anonymous. Can't imagine why you need to hide behind your "web name". But hey, my advice is free for the taking so take it or leave it, all the same to me.

(Jeez, why is it that when you put someone behind an anonymous computer terminal, they get nasty. This board has too many pissing matches and it's all unnecessary).

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
The TSA regs only prohibit (specifically) BLACK POWDER AND CAPS FOR BLACK POWDER GUNS. Primers are not black powder caps, and I like to do people favors where I can, esp in Zim. If TSA doesn't like it, they simply remove it so there's no big deal. $5 down the drain. So RAC, I think you are being a little dramatic there.

AZ writer, aren't you the guy that asked me for a free Nyala hunt a while back, promising to write an article? Perhaps you are still mad at me because I declined? Can't tell, because everything on your website and your profile on AR is anonymous. Can't imagine why you need to hide behind your "web name". But hey, my advice is free for the taking so take it or leave it, all the same to me.

(Jeez, why is it that when you put someone behind an anonymous computer terminal, they get nasty. This board has too many pissing matches and it's all unnecessary).

No Russ, I am not the writer who asked you for a free hunt. Did you just make that up? Last year I hunted Tanz with Wendell and paid for my portion of the trip with my money. I also provided a B class ticket for Wendell because he provided the charter.

I am not the guy who asked you for a free hunt. And now I won't ever ask you for one I pay for either.

RAC is an FO for an airline, so he ought to know what is right on the subject of primers. As he said, you are providing someone a favor with zero possible benefit and a whole lot of risk. For what?

Finally, I am not anon - my email on my profile contains my real last name. Just do a google search on it if you want to see some of the stuff I have written.

One other thing on this subject. Even if TSA takes those primers away, you could face a serious fine. At the very least, you will have your name entered on a database. A LEO will interview you. If you make another mistake, the second offense will be taken much more seriously. I know that because I accidentally carried a single bullet unknowingly in a backpack. I was told I would not have to pay a fine, but the next time I got caught doing that, I would, at a minimum, pay a very stiff fine. So again, why risk it?

I stand corrected. I called one of our guys in in hazmat. Primers fall under 1.4S which is the same category as ammo. So you can carry 5 kilos of primers or ammo or a combination. As a disclaimer, nobody I have talked to knows much about shooting and is only reading from the regs. They are talking about a "cap type" primer as opposed to a "tube type" I can only assume that the cap type is a rifle primer. I will see what I can find out from the TSA this week when I go to work.

rslus contacted IATA directly and got this reply. {He sent me a copy, as I had told him in an email that I thought primers would be classified as Dangerous Goods and have to be shipped via air cargo and couldn't be shipped in checked luggage}.

From: RUECKERT Jens-Thomas <RUECKERTJ@iata.org>
To: rslus@________.com
CC: LEBLANC Richard <LEBLANCR@iata.org>
Subject: RE: Primers used in reloading
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:49:33 -0400
>Dear Mr. ______,
>
>Thank you for taking the time to inquire with us.
>
>As discussed yesterday by phone primers are not allowed in passenger's
>baggage, this applies both to check-in and carry-on baggage.
>For your convenience I have attached table 2.3.A of the IATA Dangerous Goods
>Regulations as further reference what kind of articles are allowed on one's
>person or in one's baggage.
>With the approval of the operator a maximum of 5 kgs / 11lbs of ammunition
>classified in Division 1.4S with UN-numbers 0012 or 0014 per person is
>permitted.
>UN 0012 is "Cartridges, small arms" or "Cartridges for weapons, inert
>projectile". UN 0014 is "Cartridges, small arms, blank".
>
>Please note that there are operators who may further restrict the transport
>of ammunition by passengers and that there is a lot of ammunition which does
>not qualify to be transported in passenger's baggage.
>The Federal Rifle primer types #210 you would like to transport will most
>probably be classified as UN 0044, Primers, Cap type. Transport of such
>commodities is only possible as cargo.
>There are other primers of the cap type which may only be shipped on a cargo
>aircraft or which are forbidden in air transport at all, however with the
>net quantity of explosives contained in the primer type you use they will
>most likely be classified as UN 0044.
>
>The weapon(s) itself will not be a problem in checked baggage, for further
>reference I have attached a related document from the US TSA.
>
>Please don't hesitate to get back to us if you have further questions or if
>we may be of further assistance.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Jens-Thomas Rueckert
>
>
>Jens-Thomas RUECKERT
>Manager Special Cargo Support
>Phone +1 514 874 0202 Ext. 3247
>Fax +1 514 874 2660
>
>International Air Transport Association
>800, Place Victoria, PO Box 113
>Montreal, Quebec, Canada H4Z 1M1
>www.iata.org <www.iata.org>
>