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One of Us |
I can't, for the life of me, decipher how I happened to hit your individual nerve. Unless, in fact, you do think your way is the only way to properly hunt. 'Hate to break it to you, but not all hunters are united and happy when someone else kills something bigger or different or in a different way than them. Believe it or not, there are stupid people that hunt. | |||
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I think you are right. Not everyone is this way of course but there are plenty who are. | |||
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Could that statement right there be part of the problem. You mentioned Class Envy. What about the Class Envy you openly threw into the conversation about Dumb Rednecks? As much as I like about Theodore Roosevelt and his place in American History, he also believed that ONLY the Aristocracy/Well Heeled should be eligible to hunt or be considered hunters. He believed that the "Lower Classes" did not really have the intelligence to understand the True artistry of hunting. The biggest fear I have had about the future of hunting world wide for about 4 decades now, concerns the concept of the "Common Man" being squeezed out of hunting and only the wealthy or highly connected would be able to hunt. I saw some of that future when Trophy White Tail Deer hunting became the business it has. I saw "Real Deer Hunters" openly humiliate other hunters because the deer the person killed was Not Up To THEIR Standards"! I want EVERYONE that wants to hunt, be able to do so as long as they follow the established legalities. Just because a person has no problem with shooting a deer at a timed feeder, but has no desire to go to Africa and hunt lion, even if they could afford it, does not make them less of a person or a hunter it just means they have different desires and goals in life. I really don't see why or how referring to other hunters as, jealous, dumb Rednecks, does anything to keep this discussion on track. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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What I've learned from all of this is that I am thankful I have a rather normal life, and that have never frequented Facebook, Twitter, or any of that other garbage known as social media. I have also learned that, in spite of having hunted big game every year for the past 44, nobody I know loves the outdoors or hunting more than I do. I have much more important things to concern myself with than African safaris, lions, leopards, etc. Before the flaming starts, I've been very supportive of SCI (in the past), DSC, NRA, B&C, and some small state associations. | |||
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Mjines. Thank you. Very well spoken. I wish you were in MT so I could buy you a beer and listen. All the benefits of conservation and charity are gone after one incident. Ethics are by definition a person's choice and mostly cannot be dictated by others. When applied to hunting, there will always be someone fueling the fire with actions. Cheers, Ski+3 | |||
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He didn't say everyone was a dumb redneck. He said there are some out there. Hard to dispute that. | |||
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I can't, for the life of me, decipher how I happened to hit your individual nerve. Unless, in fact, you do think your way is the only way to properly hunt. 'Hate to break it to you, but not all hunters are united and happy when someone else kills something bigger or different or in a different way than them. Believe it or not, there are stupid people that hunt.[/QUOTE] Maybe it was the concept of "class envy". While there are certainly different classes the world over, I for one, will never acknowledge them. Believe me, I agree that there are a lot of hunters with whom I share little in common and whom I believe to be more than a little stupid but if I don't agree with certain hunting methods, it is not because of "class envy". Regards, Bill | |||
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That is true, there are folks that should not be hunting. On the other side of the coin, that determination should not be based on Personal Ethics. Many people find baiting deer and black bear objectionable, while others have no problem with baiting lion or leopard. To me the first and most important aspect of the issue is that any time any hunting is in danger of being outlawed, it means all hunting is in danger. When hunters divide themselves into factions, based on individual beliefs/preferences/concepts, we are overlooking the fact that the folks that want hunting stopped, want it all stopped, no matter the hunters individual beliefs/standards. Also, hunters overlook the fact that the Anti's have changed one fundamental approach to obtain their goal, they have adopted the premise that they will be more successful, even though it will take longer, if they attack the issue One Species at a time. Add to that the idea that the worlds economy is changing, along with the fact that the hunting public is aging and ideas about hunting certain species is changing, and the future looks dim. Incidents like this, where some of the individuals involved were aware that lega1lities were being tap danced around, only make things worse for any hunter, even if they only hunt squirrels. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Being a dumb redneck has nothing to do with money. I've met plenty of wealthy ones. My apologies if I've offended anyone's PC sensibilities with the term "class envy". I am an American and believe no one should be kept in any certain "tier" or "class" if they have the drive and ambition to better themselves; Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, etc. However, you will hear this term "class envy" used by much more educated individuals than me, in public forums, when discussing societal troubles, e.g. rioting, "wealth distribution", and the like. Perhaps you've missed it. And now back to your regular programming. MJines was trying to instigate some brainstorming, not a pissing contest. | |||
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But ultimately, class and the perception thereof lies at the very heart of the matter. Africa, for hundreds of years was nothing more or less than: (a)The playground of monied Europeans and Persians with unlimited resources, in the form of wildlife, for their use and benefit. (b)A treasure trove of wealth to be harvested and exploited including the "lower class" people who lived there. (c)A grand laboratory for experiments in cultural and social manipulation with no rewgard for potential consequences. So it is that the resident peoples of African nations lost their livelyhood, lifestyle and their very lives. Subsequently a new upper class of black Africans continue to, with the help of their supporters, keep their lower classes out of the picture as far as sharing in the wealth is concerned. Wealthy nations should have tried to help to establish a viable, inclusive African economy and social structure but they did not so we see a continent with an exploding population of the poor, the hungry, the ill and ultimately, the resentful. This may not seem to have a lot to do with the "cecil" controversy, which I think should not be a controversy at all, but the situation of Africans and African life and experience along with the wealthy nation's sense of entitlement may well be a the root. As far as Cecil is concerned, there should be, as I said, no controversy. Things are what they are. If it causes people who have some involvment to see the problems where they exist and endeavour to do something about it, then it can have a positive result. Regards, Bill | |||
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Something must change. If we can’t generate greater social acceptance (or at least tolerance) of sport hunting, it will cease to exist. I agree with Mike that while funding conservation initiatives is admirable, what is desperately needed right now is an all-out, well - managed effort to gain understanding, appreciation and acceptance of sport hunting, as well as a strong political action component. Is SCI, DSC or even the NRA the right organization to do this? I don’t know. There are so many things that have to change, and many of the changes need to begin right at home, at the individual level. I awoke this morning to a notification from FB that someone I don’t know had shared one of my pictures. I opened it up it was a woman in South Africa, and she had posted a picture of me kneeling beside a white rhino I had darted a few years ago. Under it she included my name and my contact info to ensure her followers know how to convey to me their hate. Her page was open to the public, and I was shocked to find a number of my photos on her page, and they seemed to alternate with news photos and links regarding “Cecil”. I have a whopping 58 FB friends, and I thought my photos were only accessible to these friends, but one album was open. Turns out she first found me because a FB page dedicated to stopping trophy hunting had somehow found my rhino photo and decided to put it front and center. Ironically, it is the one animal that was only tranquilized, and it was vaccinated while down to ensure its health …. Social Media has forever changed the world. It is such a powerful tool. If we, as a community, don’t master it and use it to our benefit, it will bury us. A previous post on this thread commented on similarities to gays and lesbians. Most census counts conclude that the LGBT community constitutes somewhere between 3 – 4% of the American population. It wasn’t that long ago individuals in this group hid their orientation for fear of hate, discrimination, ridicule and even physical violence. Businesses dared not cater to this group for fear of retaliation by the general public. Now they’re celebrated. They appear in almost every mainstream media outlet and prime time program, and flirt with children’s programing. Any business now refusing to cater to this group gets crucified on social media. Rights for the LGBT community keep finding their way to the steps of the Supreme Court. Bruce Jenner decides he’s a woman, becomes Caitlyn, gets showered with endorsements, wins the Courage Award and smashes previous records for fastest to a million followers on Twitter. Here’s an idea. Study how this group, which comprises a very small percentage of the American public and engages in practices many find disgusting and many consider wrong from a religious standpoint (and a biological standpoint for that matter), went from being ridiculed and hated to being widely accepted and even celebrated. Whatever they did – duplicate it. Bet Mike didn’t expect this thread to go down this path …. JEB Katy, TX Already I was beginning to fall into the African way of thinking: That if you properly respect what you are after, and shoot it cleanly and on the animal's terrain, if you imprison in your mind all the wonder of the day from sky to smell to breeze to flowers—then you have not merely killed an animal. You have lent immortality to a beast you have killed because you loved him and wanted him forever so that you could always recapture the day - Robert Ruark DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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That was exactly what I what I was trying to communicate with my post. We need to remind everyone that most of us partake in things others find reprehensible, whether it is gay sex, transgender, abortion, eating meat, etc. We need to remind people of the virtue of tolerance for ideas they may not agree with and to remind them moral choices are very personal. | |||
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3-4% is BS. It's around 1%. And it's simple, you make it ALL about you ALL the time, nothing else matters. | |||
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No Sir, I haven't missed anything, other than the possible idea that only certain people really understand what hunting is supposed to mean. This is one of the aspects I have been watching over the years and in many ways is one of the most troubling. The only way for hunting to remain a viable activity, is that numbers of hunters and interest in hunting have to increase. If people are weeded out because they do not participate in the activity the way some believe it should be, then hunting is going to die. Personally, why should I support anyone's ability to do something that they believe I am not worthy of participating in? | |||
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A very good point. Way back when, the NRA was all about the shooting sports, marksmanship, etc. When they saw the threat to gun ownership they made a huge pivot towards gun rights. They still do all of the other things but gun rights is what they focus on. I think that ALL of the hunting organizations whether SCI, DSC, RMEF and dozens of others have fallen behind the curve and been overtaken by the antis messaging. They all need to have a serious conversation, maybe a grand meeting of all these organizations, on coming up with a coordinated strategy to promote hunting and all of it's traditions and benefits. I know that SCI, DSC do a lot of lobbying and have their lobbyists, etc. but it isn't their primary focus as they do a lot of other good work as mentioned. If the NRA had stayed on it's old path there would have been plenty of shooting ranges but no one would have been able to own the guns to shoot there. EDIT: At the last DSC convention I saw raffles that were being held to benefit the political action fund. But it wasn't clear to me what the difference was from the other raffles until I asked. There should be a big blaring banner - "Enter these raffles to support hunters." I bet they would get a lot more attention. | |||
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Zealot homophobe hunters are too preoccupied with constantly complaining about Homosexuals rather than actually doing anything positive for the cause of hunting. | |||
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nhoro, vvreddy and AAW, I was starting to feel like perhaps I was just inarticulately expressing myself, probably was. But your posts really capture what I was trying to convey. If these organizations do not fundamentally rethink their approaches to advancing the interests of hunters and hunting, yesterday, we are going to continue to experience a slide in the rights of hunters. It is incumbent on any organization to periodically reexamine its mission and how it goes about meeting its mission. I would suggest that some of these groups are long overdue for such a review given the challenges facing the sport today. Mike | |||
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And it starts http://www.nj.com/politics/ind...n_inspired_by_c.html Cannot get,this guy in jail fast enough. | |||
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I'm creating an opening for Saeed to have another go at SCI  but...I was just today looking at their awards magazine. It is very well done but the amount of effort expended in resources to run that whole operation, the records keeping, production, events, etc. must be quite staggering. Even if all of that is financially self sustained or even a revenue contributor by the entry fees from the participants, advertising, etc. it has to be a huge distraction to the organization and it's leadership. I think that is a luxury that should be revaluated whether it would make sense to focus on other initiatives given the "clear and present danger". It's like having an awards ceremony for the best orchestra players on board while the Titanic is sinking! Is there something more important that could be done while raising the same amount of money? Couldn't help the movie quote  | |||
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Random thoughts. Now some Zim official is calling for the extradition of Dr. Palmer, who this official describes as the "foreign poacher who absconded to his country of origin." Sounds like the beginning of a fair judicial process to me. All this is a reminder why I pay the extra freight to hunt in Tanzania with people I know rather than hunt in Zimbabwe. This lion was 13 years old. Let that sink in. It's amazing that he still had a pride. His last batch of cubs was going to be killed however he died. It also raises one of my concerns that sometimes even pride lions just get tired of the wives and kids and go out for some air. So you might see a lone male, with no signs of females or cubs, who is just seeking a little peace and quiet. Who would think a lion this old had a pride. It's unfortunate, but I suspect this is the spark that the Obama Administration and USF&w needed to end the importation of lion trophies into the US. Which will doom lions throughout their range. That's the real tragedy. There are a lot of apparently well-meaning people who say a lot more than they know. Not talking about anyone here. I'm referring to the so-called preservationists (I refuse to call them conservationists). | |||
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Lavaca, your random thoughts are pretty accurate in my opinion. If nothing else, a 13 year old male lion, from what I have seen in zoo settings and what information Lane and Aaron have posted in the past, is not going to be in prime condition to defend his pride against younger males. At some point the leadership of the pride would change and cubs would be killed, it has been that way, longer than humans have been on Earth. I still feel that the bigger issue with this involves the legal/illegal aspects and just exactly how big a role the client played in the activity. | |||
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Never happen....this Pimp, sexual deviant, crook will be in the cooler before too long. No attempt to jump on the popular outrage will save his ass. He is a desperate and despicable person. Booker is so desperate to get his lib name out that he will attach to anything. If the current DOJ feels compelled to prosecute this slob, then you can bet it's really bad | |||
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Yup. Their value will then be set by the Asian "pharmaceutical" market and the poachers will export them. No money will go to the villages or sustainable employment and, of course, they won't be taken with any eye towards conservation. http://www.latimes.com/opinion...13-story.html#page=1 Dave | |||
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A7, you are correct. Don't get me started on the Chinese or I will sound like a racist. | |||
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The biggest problem is that most people have no problem with us killing deer, as it keeps down vehicle accidents. Explaining trophy hunting even to a rational person usuallly brings them into a an idea of a Disney animal. Someone shot simba from lion king. The Zimbabwe gov, the social media, the news networks everyone is against this guy. Screwed up world we live in. | |||
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I've had just about enough of this crap! Where are you hand ringing bozos doing about this! Hiding? Trying to rationalize the killing of poor Cecil? You don't even have all the facts! No one does! The most beloved lion in all of Zim? Give me a break! Why are you guys not giving media interviews defending sport hunting and legally hunting lions in general? You better get angry and vocal! Don't let the scum win! Yup, learn from the queers get organized, get violent, get emotional and most of all get heard! I'm ashamed to even read this Thread! I've spent the entire day dealing with this and I'm pissed! Screw Cecil(the beloved lion of Zim- barf) and all the greenies and sheppies who watch animal planet from their twinky sodden wheelchairs. How many of these flatulent, overweight, brainless RETARDS have ever been to Zim? < 0.01 %? It's a shithole and always will be till Mugabe croaks! Extradite an American to there? Only when hell freezes over! Lacy act my ass! Wanna know how I feel! I'm disgusted! You hand wringers make me want to puke After some 15 years on this site feel free to ban me! I've had enough! Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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Sorry, don't understand it. Won't smoke the stuff that might make it it make sense. | |||
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By all info, this is no safari virgin. I see nothing to contradict that this guy was a SCI record book guy. With that in mind, hiring a South African for a Zimbabwe hunt, tells me all I need to know. I learned nothing new. This confirms to me that Zimbabwe is this century's Lado Enclave, and it has attracted and will continue to attract this kind of Hunter. Hell, at least he wasn't hunting in Hwange proper, so he is not the worst of the worst of us. | |||
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. Mike, This is a key question / thread, not just as regards the current situation vis a vis 'Cecil', but rather past and certain future attacks on hunting which have and will continue. Google 'Cecil the lion' and it throws up 64.8 Million hits in 0.37 seconds! (that was this morning) I have followed most of your posts / comments on this incident and you have been pretty much spot on from the outset. Aaron's recent post was also excellent. A few observations / thoughts from me: 1/ the antis / bunny huggers - however we lable them - can mobilize social media globally faster than we can blink 2/ nobody seems interested in facts anymore (crossbow, shot at night, beheaded etc etc etc) and even the press and supposedly quality press such as BBC, CNN and others too quickly jump on the bandwagen for the sake of a story and media / press quota and sales. 3/ hunting bodies and organisations are generally lame in supporting hunters in times of crisis and in fighting major battles (I have no axe to grind against SCI, DSC or any other of the US hunting organisations but from what I have seen or better not seen their (re)actions and responses in this matter have been weak and limp at best. Dollars well spent, value for money? 4/ nationally and internationally, we as dedicated hunters - if we want our children to hunt as we do - must come up with something that can stand up against massive anti pressure and attacks like this in years to come. And bear in mind that 500.000 British hunters and supporters Walking on Hyde Park and the Houses of Parliament years ago to beat the ban on fox hunting did not sway the UK government! 5/ tape measures, inches and cms have no place in hunting - a drive for bigger, better and record books will lead to outcomes like this as a minority of hunters will cross that line to get that bigger one and in doing so will jeopardise the majority Hunting is a huge part of my life and something that I am proud of and stand up for. My wife and I are scheduled to travel to Zim in September for a buff hunt and we are in discussions with a Zim PH on a cat hunt as I write. I have no intentions to change any of these plans because of what has happened in Zimbabwe; I will travel with our guns and if anyone engages me in a conversation on hunting I will be happy to reply. Tragically in the 21st centuary the sentimental tide is against us and we must fight to continue to enjoy hunting wherever it may be in the world and whatever the fish or game may be. And as a ps. I am amazed that so many people have so much free time to actually go to Dr Palmers property and place cuddly toys on his doorstep or paint their faces with whiskers and spots and make banners for an animal that they did not know existed 4 weeks ago and in a country that most of them could not find on a map of the world! . 5/ "Up the ladders and down the snakes!" | |||
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I just posted this under Wayne Pacelle's CNN opinion: I have hunted in Tanzania four times: in Kigosi, the Selous reserve twice, and once in Masailand. Kigosi and the Selous are vast areas, the latter of which is the size of Switzerland. Photo tourists don't travel to these areas, they travel to easy to access parks. Hunting in these vast game reserves provides jobs for locals which in turn provides motivation to not poach. When I hunted in Masailand, I noticed there were a lot less vultures and other scavenger birds. My guide said that was because when a lion kills the Masai cattle, they poison the carcass to kill the lion, which in turn has resulted in less avian scavengers. But in Tanzania, unlike Kenya, where hunting is not allowed, there is at least some motivation for indigenous people not to kill every lion they see if the can sell a lion hunt that will bring money into their community. Interestingly, the lion is doing best in those areas that have tetse flies - because cattle cannot be raised in areas of tetse flies and consequently there is less human conflict. We all do things in every day life that others find morally reprehensible: gay sex/marriage, abortion, heck, even the author of this story finds eating meat morally repugnant. And you know what? He is right about one thing: you don't have to eat meat to live. In the eyes of Wayne Pacelle, every meat eater is morally reprehensible, because they are killing animals for their own pleasure. I have also hunted in Namibia twice, on private land. Those landowners can either raise cows, or let their land revert to its natural state and become a breeding area for native species. In return, those landowners generate income from hosting hunters. How many of you would travel to such a place to pictures? How many have? Before this internet witch hunt against hunting goes any further, you should think about your own practices. Is Molly the cow's life any less important than Cecils? Is killing an animal okay just because you eat it? How do we judge human killers that are cannibals? Do we treat them better than other murders because "they eat what they kill?" Wayne also is against wearing fur, as are many who think nothing of eating a steak. Why is eating the flesh of animal somehow morally superior to wearing it fur or displaying its skin? No one has squatter's rights on America's moral high ground, least of those who eat meat but are critical of hunters of any kind. | |||
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Well said AZ. I hope your response goes viral in greenieland..jc | |||
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I have hunted my whole life here in Texas. I've lurked here for several years and enjoyed reading your posts, your hunt reports, your complaints, etc. I'd love to hunt Africa but probably never will. It just astonishes me that any of you folks think that the reason your losing this fight is because you haven't done enough to convince all hunters of the righteousness of your position in terms of conservation, etc. 98% of the hunting community would shake their heads in utter disbelief and incredulousness at at the idea of paying $25,000 to $75,000 to hunt a lion.... yet you expect them to leap to the defense of folks that can afford that sort of ridiculous indulgence (no offense intended, but you know...it is ridiculous) and shake your heads at how uninformed everybody is except you folks that can afford to shell out that kind of money to hunt. Much less to hunt an animal like a lion which, as we have seen over the past several days, evokes a certain energetic response from folks. Wake up. Very very few people understand or are sympathetic to the idea or concept of shelling out enormous amounts of money to shoot what are, to the average American hunter, extremely exotic and unusual animals. I have enjoyed Mike Jines' post for years. But, I am absolutely flummoxed that someone as smart as he apparently appears to be doesn't understand that he is part of a teensy, tiny minority of hunters who will ever be impacted by a US government decision to ban the importation of lion trophies to the US. Which is going to happen, if I had to place a bet. I had lunch yesterday with 5 buddies. Four are on my deer lease. When the subject of Cecil came up, every single person at the table used the word "asshole" for this dentist who arrowed the lion. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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It is not the hiding bit that got me worried, it is putting a deer on the worst place on the truck for keeping meat!! I would have imagined one would want to keep his deer cold, rather than heat it up on the hood of his truck! | |||
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The problem Mike is that if you think the antis are just out to eliminate elephant and lion hunting, I think you are being naive. Their objective is to eliminate all hunting, even the hunting you and your buddies do on your deer lease. Do you think that gun control advocates are just out to eliminate assault rifles and high capacity magazines, absolutely not. They pick the items that they think are easiest to pick off from a public relations perspective and go after those first and then move on to the next objective. Same with hunting. Why are polar bears, lions, wolves, cougars and elephants the focus now . . . because the public has empathy toward those species plus the antis realize that it impacts a relatively few hunters. But if you believe once they eliminate elephant and lion hunting they are going to be happy and declare victory and leave other hunters alone, I think you are mistaken. No, their objective is all hunting. But they are deliberate and patient and willing to take their time to get there. The fact that other hunters like you and your buddies do not appreciate that fact is both disappointing and troubling and another failure of groups like SCI and DSC. Mike | |||
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And there you have it-- ASSHOLE hunter, lurker, class envy artist-- lashing out condemnation on someone for what they wish they could do--or even if they do not wish they could do are jealous of the wherewithall to do such-- People-- you must be realistic and rational --the jealousy and woosification of the hunting community is rampant-- and is used to shred us - just as the anti's hope and pray for- I have stayed away from AR lately-- all the bickering , back bitting BS that goes on- However- I am not comfortable with the hypocrisy. Face it - I hunt, I kill--animals--and you? And I wish to continue to do so-- do you? So DO YOU? What are you prepared to do about it? If you wish to kill -you must agree killing in hunting ensures a violent act in itself. If not what is shredding tissue, smashing bones, hydrostatic shock with blade or bullet? Is it non-injurious, non-painful, non-killing in someway I have missed? Is this something other than violence? Is violence not inhumane? So whether you are a puussified deer hunter that claims to eat ALL they kill- or a trophy hunter that never eats a bite- WE MUST QUIT CUTTING OURSELVES TO BITS- So YOU NEW ASSHOLE-- get right with your hypocrisy-- WE ALL KILL VIOLENTLY-- If you agree animals have ANY RIGHTS and you kill them- YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE-- and Particularly when you condemn others for killing - EVEN animals you have no desire to kill- (insert hunt if you cannot stand the word kill) Good night Virginia- hope your panties are not chaffing too much this evening- DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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Agree with Jines here! 100% | |||
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That is true of the hardcore antis. But all the people between pro and anti hunting who's political weight matters are subject to being swayed. Incidents like this whether legal or not, display a callus disregard for what much of the the public views as the sanctity of killing one of the most magnificent animals on earth. Dr Palmer spent more time looking for his lost luggage than hunting his quarry before he let his arrow fly. And even after discovering the collar and all that went with that, follows up with a gluttonous request to kill a big elephant. The general public just isn't going to support that mentality, and no amount of pointing out the conservation benefits of trophy hunting, what or what isn't legal, how the lion has passed his prime, how baiting and spotlight hunting are commonly used is going to change any of that. | |||
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FYI- I grew up East Texas poor-- I refused to stay that way- I ate what we Killed- Now-- I hunt because I love it- AND as you can see from above it PISSES me off when someone JUDGES - particularly from a position of jealousy or ignorance-- IF you are not on the side of hunting in Africa-- even if you are never going- YOU are part of the problem and not the solution- IF lion hunting IS banned-- we WILL have fewer lions than today- Bet your ass on that DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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Here's confirmation of what is about to come: "Washington (AFP) - The head of PETA, the world's largest animal rights group, demanded an end Saturday to all forms of trophy hunting, which she denounced as a hideous pastime plied by rich, callous thrill seekers." | |||
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Just an observation, nothing more. This is an issue I can and have viewed with an open mind for quite a while now. The situation as I see it, is that some of us have the means and desire to go to Africa and hunt lions and elephants and such, and there is nothing wrong with that. Some of us will never want to hunt anywhere but here in America. The base idea that ALL of us that enjoy hunting have to accept, the people that want to take hunting away from us, Do Not care if we hunt lions or cotton tail rabbits, Mourning Dove or Elephants, the folks that are trying to take hunting away from us, intend on taking ALL hunting away from us. The most important thing hunters have to address as a group, is for hunting to survive into the future, we have to stop attacking each other. If we can't do that, then hunting will have no future. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting What are the lessons learned, if any . . .
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