Gentleman, did anybody of you had some "adventures" with poachers in the field?
(I had, also some arestings.)

And:
Did somebody has some news on this accident?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...ching-operation.html
(I know it is some year ago..., but...like an police or an government statement...)


Thank you.

quote:

And:
Did somebody has some news on this accident?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...ching-operation.html
(I know it is some year ago..., but...like an police or an government statement...)

This incident took place in early 2016 and was discussed on AR.

The last reply from me in response to a comment made by an AR member was on 23 December 2020.

I cant find the link, can you please post it...
Thanks.

We caught one when I was on my self guided foot Safari in Cameroon. My 2 trackers beat the shit out of him, then we tied his hands behind his back and marched him back to camp. Kept him in a concrete shed for 3 days until we were picked up and taken to the nearest village.

quote:

Originally posted by Bockhunter:
I cant find the link, can you please post it...
Thanks.

Just go to the "Find" box in top left corner, enter claudio chiarelli and the thread will pop up.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Here it is

This one:

CLAUDIO AND MAX CHIARELLI SHOT AT MANA POOLS (in African Big Game Hunting) by juanpozzi
Famous italian PH and his son Max were killed at Mana pools by game rangers shot at the spot ,they were pursuing poachers found the game rangers and they killed them .Claudio and Max were in atipoaching patrols ,Claudio was the only italian who served in the crack unit the SELOUS SCOUTS .He was a...
Accuratereloading.com > The Accurate Reloading Forums > THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS > African Big Game Hunting
14 March 2016 21:36

What comes to mind for me was the murder of Andre de Kock by a poacher armed with an AK in Maswa back in 2011. Andre was a PH with Robin Hurt.

Bit of a shootout and killed two dogs in Sengwa Research area in fall of 2019
Definitely interesting

Would be wise to keep one's exploits to themselves: "what happens in the bush stays in the bush".

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
Would be wise to keep one's exploits to themselves: "what happens in the bush stays in the bush".

“Not on Accurate Reloading”

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
Would be wise to keep one's exploits to themselves: "what happens in the bush stays in the bush".

“Not on Accurate Reloading”

Why is it AR’s fault if anyone wishes to post his experience??

With the increase in cancel culture it is not wise to post about many things that you have witnessed in Africa. I would have much more to add if we were in person having a drink or around a campfire. I have some interesting videos.

quote:

Originally posted by Capt.Purvis:
With the increase in cancel culture it is not wise to post about many things that you have witnessed in Africa. I would have much more to add if we were in person having a drink or around a campfire. I have some interesting videos.

Precisely.

The word "exploits" was being used "wryly" but however so, AR is a freedom of speech forum so have at it.

Some years back two heavily armed poachers came into one of our camps and beat up our staff and demanded over the radio that Richard Bell Cross and I should return to camp so we could be shot.

We took up their generous offer and set up an ambush outside of the camp where we slept in the bush. However, the poachers had vanished but one of the staff recognized one and the authorities did a night raid in his village and he was apprehended with his AK47.

There have been numerous experiences but save those for the campfire.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
We caught one when I was on my self guided foot Safari in Cameroon. My 2 trackers beat the shit out of him, then we tied his hands behind his back and marched him back to camp. Kept him in a concrete shed for 3 days until we were picked up and taken to the nearest village.

When I did the same kind of self guided foot safari in Cameroon ... I was back in the 'mountains'and we had stopped for a break. Suddenly the tracker started listening and then took off running .. a bit of shouting and then the kid carrying the water bottle also took off running.

I was standing there with my best friend in my arms ( 375 Ruger) watching the world unfold in front of me.

Suddenly one of the poachers carrying two spears streaked by me at about forty yards or so. He obviously had urgent business elsewhere.

They left behind a kettle, an axe, some mealie,and a baboon carcass..I brought home the axe. My helpers burned the mealie and ate the baboon themselves.

My PH told me that if we encountered poachers we should shoot them. Well, we encountered one and all we did is tell him to leave and that we would shoot the guy's dogs if he saw him again.

Later he told me that a friend of his had shot a poacher that turned out to be a government minister's son.

Many years ago, we spotted some poachers in Zim. I was placed in what was thought to be a safe location while the trackers & PH moved in. The poachers ran. Unfortunately, straight at me.

I stepped out from behind a tree and pointed my rifle at them yelling at them to stop. They did. The trackers arrived in a few few seconds and proceeded to rough them up a bit.

The poachers were tied up, placed in the back of a truck and taken to the police.

There are poachers ... and there are poachers.

One bunch are pretty innocuous as they are what I would refer to as indigenous hunters doing what they have been doing for generations: hunting the odd antelope and guinea fowl for themselves using traditional hunting methods and for the more intrepid hunter, maybe a muzzle loader.

They are obviously unlicensed hunters which from a legal perspective, classifies them as poachers, used as scapegoats and the ones who pay the ultimate price for others' misdoings.

The second bunch operates on a large scale, are equipped with rifles of varying calibers and models, some of which are the ever popular 375 with scope none the less and access hunting areas with vehicles then operate on foot.
Most of the meat is dried over coals and once a full load has been achieved will haul it to town.

This second bunch also comes in two categories: One which concentrates in sale of game meat to the villages and townships while the other, whose activities have since been downsized, were concentrating mainly on ivory and other game which provide high returns as in Lion body parts. They normally had some powerful people looking after their interests.

You don't really want to tangle with this bunch as they tend to shoot first and if apprehended, talk later.

The late Andre De Kock had the misfortune of bumping into one such group and to-date, in spite of several arrests shortly after the incident, I have not heard of anyone being prosecuted.

I have also had encounters in the Bush..

It’s not what I go there for, but does happen at times.

In May 2019 I was hunting with Jan du Plessis of Sebra Hunting Safaris in Namibia. We were hunting on a large ranch owned by a very prominent Namibian family. When we heard dogs barking where there weren’t supposed to be any, we caught 2 native poachers who had just killed a warthog. Luckily for them, they didn’t attempt a shootout. We called the National Police and they sent a couple of officers and a paddy wagon. Jan had to give and sign a Sworn Statement and the 2 bad guys were hauled off to jail. The officer who took Jan’s statement told us one of the guys was a convicted murderer who just got out of prison after serving a lengthy sentence. Both Jan and I have been in “delicate” situations before and we would have prevailed if the poachers had done anything stupid like firing at us or attacking with knives.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
Would be wise to keep one's exploits to themselves: "what happens in the bush stays in the bush".

“Not on Accurate Reloading”

Why is it AR’s fault if anyone wishes to post his experience??

Saeed, It wasn't meant to be disparaging to you or AR. Its a general comment about social media and how it is destroying this sport and interestingly enough, by our own hand.

I get into trouble here with you and others by sharing my opinion on this.

I am experienced enough and have had a bunch of these "situations". I don't feel the need, on social media to talk about things that make our entire demographic look bad. We all understand (or should) that what we do in the bush at times doesn't look to the great un-washed masses like it makes sense. It wasn't me who made things the way they are. The difference is, I see this with a clarity of vision that other don't. That doesn't make me right or wrong, its simply my observation.

Posting stories about shooting at or being shot at by poachers make us appear to be heartless and savages.

Yea, I know, "I REFUSE TO BE ASHAMED OF WHO WE ARE AND WHAT I DO" blah, blah, blah. We do so at our own peril. Hunting isn't a spectator sport. It shouldn't be either. Purposely tugging at the heartstrings of a very well funded and determined opposition just makes no sense to me.

So, Saeed, is my opinion any less valid that say Boarkiller, who believes tho opposite of me?

I wish to continue to hunt Africa and the other far reaches of the planet. I just see a short train-ride to the no more international hunting station coming. I think these beliefs are valid. If you don't agree, that's fine, I won't beat anyone up here over a difference of opinion.

We are on a discussion board, correct?

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
Would be wise to keep one's exploits to themselves: "what happens in the bush stays in the bush".

“Not on Accurate Reloading”

Why is it AR’s fault if anyone wishes to post his experience??

Saeed, It wasn't meant to be disparaging to you or AR. Its a general comment about social media and how it is destroying this sport and interestingly enough, by our own hand.

I get into trouble here with you and others by sharing my opinion on this.

I am experienced enough and have had a bunch of these "situations". I don't feel the need, on social media to talk about things that make our entire demographic look bad. We all understand (or should) that what we do in the bush at times doesn't look to the great un-washed masses like it makes sense. It wasn't me who made things the way they are. The difference is, I see this with a clarity of vision that other don't. That doesn't make me right or wrong, its simply my observation.

Posting stories about shooting at or being shot at by poachers make us appear to be heartless and savages.

Yea, I know, "I REFUSE TO BE ASHAMED OF WHO WE ARE AND WHAT I DO" blah, blah, blah. We do so at our own peril. Hunting isn't a spectator sport. It shouldn't be either. Purposely tugging at the heartstrings of a very well funded and determined opposition just makes no sense to me.

So, Saeed, is my opinion any less valid that say Boarkiller, who believes tho opposite of me?

I wish to continue to hunt Africa and the other far reaches of the planet. I just see a short train-ride to the no more international hunting station coming. I think these beliefs are valid. If you don't agree, that's fine, I won't beat anyone up here over a difference of opinion.

We are on a discussion board, correct?

Absolutely agree with you Steve
We all disagree at times and as it should be

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
Would be wise to keep one's exploits to themselves: "what happens in the bush stays in the bush".

“Not on Accurate Reloading”

Why is it AR’s fault if anyone wishes to post his experience??

Saeed, It wasn't meant to be disparaging to you or AR. Its a general comment about social media and how it is destroying this sport and interestingly enough, by our own hand.

I get into trouble here with you and others by sharing my opinion on this.

I am experienced enough and have had a bunch of these "situations". I don't feel the need, on social media to talk about things that make our entire demographic look bad. We all understand (or should) that what we do in the bush at times doesn't look to the great un-washed masses like it makes sense. It wasn't me who made things the way they are. The difference is, I see this with a clarity of vision that other don't. That doesn't make me right or wrong, its simply my observation.

Posting stories about shooting at or being shot at by poachers make us appear to be heartless and savages.

Yea, I know, "I REFUSE TO BE ASHAMED OF WHO WE ARE AND WHAT I DO" blah, blah, blah. We do so at our own peril. Hunting isn't a spectator sport. It shouldn't be either. Purposely tugging at the heartstrings of a very well funded and determined opposition just makes no sense to me.

So, Saeed, is my opinion any less valid that say Boarkiller, who believes tho opposite of me?

I wish to continue to hunt Africa and the other far reaches of the planet. I just see a short train-ride to the no more international hunting station coming. I think these beliefs are valid. If you don't agree, that's fine, I won't beat anyone up here over a difference of opinion.

We are on a discussion board, correct?

Absolutely agree with you Steve
We all disagree at times and as it should be

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
Would be wise to keep one's exploits to themselves: "what happens in the bush stays in the bush".

“Not on Accurate Reloading”

Why is it AR’s fault if anyone wishes to post his experience??

Saeed, It wasn't meant to be disparaging to you or AR. Its a general comment about social media and how it is destroying this sport and interestingly enough, by our own hand.

I get into trouble here with you and others by sharing my opinion on this.

I am experienced enough and have had a bunch of these "situations". I don't feel the need, on social media to talk about things that make our entire demographic look bad. We all understand (or should) that what we do in the bush at times doesn't look to the great un-washed masses like it makes sense. It wasn't me who made things the way they are. The difference is, I see this with a clarity of vision that other don't. That doesn't make me right or wrong, its simply my observation.

Posting stories about shooting at or being shot at by poachers make us appear to be heartless and savages.

Yea, I know, "I REFUSE TO BE ASHAMED OF WHO WE ARE AND WHAT I DO" blah, blah, blah. We do so at our own peril. Hunting isn't a spectator sport. It shouldn't be either. Purposely tugging at the heartstrings of a very well funded and determined opposition just makes no sense to me.

So, Saeed, is my opinion any less valid that say Boarkiller, who believes tho opposite of me?

I wish to continue to hunt Africa and the other far reaches of the planet. I just see a short train-ride to the no more international hunting station coming. I think these beliefs are valid. If you don't agree, that's fine, I won't beat anyone up here over a difference of opinion.

We are on a discussion board, correct?

Absolutely agree with you Steve
We all disagree at times and as it should be

+1

I almost posted this last night but thought better about it. But after seeing Fulvio's and Andrew's comments, which are very sage, I think I'll weigh in. This is not a good internet topic. Not legal advice folks, but someone is liable to say something that could turn out to be regrettable for them.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I almost posted this last night but thought better about it. But after seeing Fulvio's and Andrew's comments, which are very sage, I think I'll weigh in. This is not a good internet topic. Not legal advice folks, but someone is liable to say something that could turn out to be regrettable for them.

Here we go again.

Hide the truth!

Be afraid everything.

Be ashamed of everything.

What has one's experience with criminals in the bush got to do with legal advice?

I am a hunter.

I follow all legal laws.

If I encounter poachers the game scout can deal with them.

If they shoot at me I will shoot back.

What is wrong with this approach?

Oh, I might get a deranged stupid lawyer saying I should not have used deadly force?

We were in Deka safari area in Zimbabwe.

We saw people far away where they should not have been any.

The subject of poachers came up.

Then someone said what happens if they shoot at us.

I said I will shoot back.

Someone said we should not get involved by shooting back.

I said I will NOT sit back and take pot shots from criminals shooting at me.

I will shoot back, and I will make sure I hit what I shoot at.

The rest of the world is not like America.

Where lawyers rule every aspect of live!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The rest of the world is not like America.

True.

In many places they dispense entirely with a trial (or give you a sham trial with a foregone conclusion), then poison you, lock you up or shoot you at their whim.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The rest of the world is not like America.

True.

In many places they dispense entirely with a trial (or give you a sham trial with a foregone conclusion), then poison you, lock you up or shoot you at their whim.

That's why you need a good PH mate.

True, Andrew.

Still, there are some places I wouldn't go even with Seal Team Six at my back!

I have helped chase some down.

We also went to a village with game scouts to confront some poachers. They were not treated kindly.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
I have helped chase some down.

We also went to a village with game scouts to confront some poachers. They were not treated kindly.

Jeff

Well done

Saeed, I agree with you. If someone shoots at me, I'll shoot back and likely to good effect. But I don't think it's prudent to talk about it or the results. I've hunted with a "shoot to kill" order in place by the President of the country. Personally, I think those orders are ill-advised because the poachers know they are in place and shoot first. But that's just me.

I heard of a famous poacher in Zambia using a 375H&H magnum for elephants years ago.

As you can imagine, ammo was a big scarce.

So someone arranged for a box of reloads with solids full of Hercules BULLSEYE!

That was the last anyone heard of him

Well a full .375 case of that powder would be an impressive explosion.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I heard of a famous poacher in Zambia using a 375H&H magnum for elephants years ago.

As you can imagine, ammo was a big scarce.

So someone arranged for a box of reloads with solids full of Hercules BULLSEYE!

That was the last anyone heard of him

Yes, I remember that story rather fondly. Perhaps a croc got him when crossing the Zambezi, or...

For a fairly recent incident, here’s one from October of 2018. I was hunting Sitatunga with Richard Bell-Cross on his Lunga Luswishi concession, just across the Kafue River from our friend Mr. Baldry. Andrew had spotted a large Sitatunga in a marshy area straight across the river from his camp, so naturally that’s where Richard and I were every morning in the dark, hoping to catch it out in the open. We are down to the last day, and Richard and I are at the head of the marsh in the dark, while his tracker, Tom, and the game scout, Chris, are about 1/2 a mile away, watching another area. As it begins just getting light enough that we can see shadows of Sitatunga moving around with our binoculars, Richard suddenly whispers “Here come two poachers”. Shit, I ask where and he tells me where to see them. Sure enough, here come two fellows walking along in the dark, about 100 yards away but walking towards us.

We sneak back into the bushes and pretty soon, they are walking past us, totally unaware of our presence, about 20 yards from us. Richard starts sneaking from behind them and when he gets to about ten yards, it was like a safety blitzing at the snap of a football (real football, not soccer for you non-Americans). Richard broke into a sprint, with his .458 held out in front. The poor poacher who was his target had no chance as he turned to see what ‘that sound’ was, just as Richard hit him across the face with his rifle and they tumbled in a heap. Now, poacher #2 may not have been a rocket scientist, but he was no dummy, either. He took off into the forest at a run.

When I see shitbag #2 take off, I do what every middle aged, overweight guy with bad knees would do, if he didn’t think. I took off after him without taking half a second to tell myself “You’re 60, overweight and out of shape, you’ve got messed up knees and besides, that shitbag is half my age and runs from stuff in the forest just to stay alive, let him go”. Nope, I took off sprinting after him, for about 15 yards. I wasn’t a rocket scientist either.

Mind you, it’s still very dark and I’m running after this poacher on uneven ground. My right foot lands in the bottom of an unseen hole and I crash...HARD. I’m maybe 25 yards from Richard and shitbag #1; Richard is on top of that guy and has his prisoner subdued. The second I crashed, I knew I was injured rather badly. I’m laying there groaning and can’t get up. Richard calls over asking if I’m OK. “No, I’m not F**king OK”. “Are you just hurt or injured?” “Injured”, I respond. Richard’s reply was classic, “I’m kinda busy, you’ll have to figure it out on you own”. I finally get up, limping badly and we get a call on the radio, it’s Tom. “Bwana, come now, he’s here, he’s crossing the Dambo, hurry”. Richard replies that we’ve apprehended a poacher and I’m injured, so we cannot come. “But Bwana, he’s coming, he’s big-like a kudu, hurry”. I’m standing there kinda on one leg, and I’m in agony. My ribs hurt and my shoulder is killing me. (It turned out I sprained my right knee, cracked a couple ribs and tore my right rotator cuff). I can’t lift my arm at all. Tom keeps telling us to hurry and we keep telling him and Chris to get their butts over to us NOW. F the Sitatunga, we’ve got a situation on our hands.

The guys finally show up and we get back to the truck, with me using my rifle as a walking stick. We load our poacher into the back of the truck and head toward camp. A mile or two on the way back to camp, Chris has us stop the truck as he’s decided to deal with our poacher on the spot rather than take him to camp for law enforcement to pick up. Chris takes the poacher a bit away from the truck while we stay there, and they have a ‘Come to Jesus’ episode. After Chris finishes meting out his punishment, he turns the guy loose in the forest to walk to his village, and we return to camp. I immediately take two Tramadol, which for all the good they did I might have as well used them as suppositories and shoved them up my arse. I was in significant pain, and my girlfriend figured we were gonna pack up and head for Lusaka. She was wrong.

That evening, we were back where Tom & Chris had seen the Sitatunga in the morning. I couldn’t raise my right arm at all, but we had a plan. If our bull showed up, Richard was going to lift my right arm to the gun so I could shoot. I was dreading how bad my .338 was going hurt with my messed up my shoulder, but figured I could endure it for one shot, so I’d better make it count. Right before dark, 2 Sitatunga appeared from the forest and walked past me at 15 yards. But, it was a female and her young. We never did see the bull.

Once I got back home, duck season started, so I went through the entire season shooting a 20 gauge with my torn rotator. It was very painful and I usually couldn’t even get the gun to my shoulder on the 2nd day, so it was a rough duck season. I finally had rotator cuff surgery, which went very well until my surgeon informed me that I couldn’t shoot a rifle for a year, and if I tried and RE-tore it, to not even call him. I was taking my son to Tanzania on a buffalo hunt 8 months later, so instead of going 2x1, I instead went just as the guy to take pictures and pay the tab.

All is well now, but if I’d have just paused for that half second to tell myself not to bother trying to catch a poacher I’d have never caught up to, it all would have ended differently. I might have even shot that Sitatunga!

DLS. We're the same age. It's a bitch. But the good news is we ain't buying it.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
DLS. We're the same age. It's a bitch. But the good news is we ain't buying it.

Damn right! I drew a Desert Bighorn tag last season, here in California. My knees were terrible, but I immediately made arrangements to have stem cell therapy on them. It made a difference and I enjoyed a great hunt, taking a nice ram. I’ve got a 3 buffalo hunt coming up in 6 months and my knees are better now than when I sheep hunted so I’m really looking forward to it. I’ll also be hunting Bighorns with my son in Wyoming in a few years, so AGE BE DAMNED! I don’t have time for that getting old bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
DLS. We're the same age. It's a bitch. But the good news is we ain't buying it.

Damn right! I drew a Desert Bighorn tag last season, here in California. My knees were terrible, but I immediately made arrangements to have stem cell therapy on them. It made a difference and I enjoyed a great hunt, taking a nice ram. I’ve got a 3 buffalo hunt coming up in 6 months and my knees are better now than when I sheep hunted so I’m really looking forward to it. I’ll also be hunting Bighorns with my son in Wyoming in a few years, so AGE BE DAMNED! I don’t have time for that getting old bullshit.

You are a good man and it was a pleasure to have met you. Damn shame you did not shoot the Sitatunga I found for you.