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If SCI was going to suspend him for past deeds, and I think this WOULD have probably been a good idea, they should have done it long ago. They should NOT do it now as a result of what is really a public relations FUBAR and not much else. Is anyone surprised that his paperwork was either A) in order to begin with or B) MADE in order after the fact as, if a law was broken, it seems unlikely that the client would know at the time. This is Zimbabwe after all and I don't run around on safari with my GPS and a map showing the concession borders. That's part of why I hire a PH. | |||
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Has anyone called or contacted SCI instead of complaining on AR? It seems like you're preaching to the choir within AR bashing SCI. If I wanted answers, I would contact SCI and ask them. I know in my field, just because my company isn't out in front of everything doesn't mean we're completely silent. And hunters need to have a united front. HSUS, Born Free, etc can come together and attack hunting groups but there are a lot of people who are trying to drive a SCI/DSC wedge. Who cares if someone belongs to one group or both? To be most effective, all hunting orgs need to work together to accomplish something. | |||
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Does speaking directly with the President Elect Count? Jeff | |||
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Many of us have been there, done that and have the T-shirt thank you. Hell, I am on the SCI Houston board. The reality is that the chapters still do a pretty darn good job. It is the Tucson organization that has lost its way. Mike | |||
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NO...I'll just continue to whine and stomp my feet on AR. If I have to call them and explain why this issue is important and why they should of already had a plan in place when something like this emerges, then I have what I need to know. Let me take a second to thank those that did and continue to work on these issues behind the scenes. | |||
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Do you blame the steering of the SCI "ship" on the Tucson or DC office? | |||
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I think the root cause of the problem is the organizational structure of SCI. They have a relatively weak and un-empowered paid staff and an executive committee that tries to function, not as a board in terms of providing oversight, setting strategy and ensuring that the right professional staff is in place in key leadership roles, but as management. As a consequence SCI ends up being run by committee and you get precisely the result you would expect, e.g., decisions are slow, action is slow, a lack of consistency, a reluctance on the part of professional staff to act, decisions being dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, etc. Mike | |||
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You don't know the difference between a marketing slogan and a mission statement? There is a whole page on what SCI's mission is on their website and nowhere does it say No1 organisation. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Do you just enjoy talking crap? Anyone can join SCI for a $100 and get their publications ... Nothing private or elite about it. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Oh I assure you I do. Jeff | |||
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This is the very reason DSC broke from SCI and formed their own organization. They were a chapter before. They tired of fund raising so the money all went to Tuscan and nothing was done for our area's needs. Today the North Texas chapter of SCI is still alive, but I have no idea what they do or do not do. Todd Williams could tell you far more than anyone I know about that chapter. Though I have been a member of SCI for may years I'm not a member of that chapter. Like Mike I believe the chapters do far more good than Tuscan does, with the exception of maybe there lawyers! The public persona of SCI is almost a secret society, where NRA is very open to the public. ............If I knew how to fix this I would certainly try, but that is above my pay grade! ......................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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That is exactly the problem. They don't represent all hunters. | |||
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...and never will. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Which is why they are useless. | |||
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Useless? So you wont be supporting SCI or SCIF any more? A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Didn't say that Matt. | |||
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Why would you support a 'useless' organisation Larry? A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Candidly, that is a question many of us are asking ourselves. As I said above, a number of the Chapters do good work, Tucson not so much. Mike | |||
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Matt, You are way too defensive here. Without an organization that is willing to represent ALL hunters from rabbit hunters to elephant hunters, we are doomed. Starting 2 years ago SCI had the opportunity to wade into the frey and assert their dominance. They declined and at every juncture since then have sought the duck and run philosophy. Sorry but it is time to move on. SCI is toast. It doesn't mean the rest of us have to go down with the ship. Carry on Matt/Nero Fiddle on brother... Jeff | |||
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Naki - If it's that easy, why not give SCI a call and give them your idea? I am sure they would like you to show them how easy it would be to enroll 5 million members. Geez. Larry Sellers SCI(International)Life Member R8 Blaser
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I am staying a member. I hope they get their act together. I do respond to the petitions, etc. I am extremely involved in the fight to preserve hunting, I gave serious money to another organization, The NRA Hunters Leadership Forum. I would have never given that to SCI. I am actively involved in the NRA HLF. They are our only salvation as I see it now. | |||
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 A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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They are apparently getting ready to discuss this on the O Reilly Show. | |||
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I don't. That's why I left 7-8 years ago. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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I wouldn't take a very long search to find that Dallas Safari Club was first to come out with a statement condemning Palmer as being a POACHER. I was very offended by that comment as there was no evidence that he was a poacher. Both SCI and DSC should make a public apology for their handling of this situation and for their willingness to throw a fellow hunter under the bus during an obvious organized attack against legal hunting. This is just another disgusting example of how hunters can be and are our own worst enemy. | |||
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He was a poacher . . . pled guilty in 2007. If you need a handkerchief to cry for him, I will send you mine. Mike | |||
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Well he sure as fuck didn't poach this lion for which DSC called him a poacher and SCI suspended his membership. We love to attack ourselves so readily if someones hunting activity doesn't exactly align with ours. The anti movement doesn't have to do much to create negativity against us and they are laughing our inability to counter their attacts. So yes, send me your handkerchief because I am crying for the future of our right to hunt. | |||
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A suggestion . . . instead of crying try doing something constructive to preserve our future right to hunt. Defending Palmer does not fall into that category. Mike | |||
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I agree 100%..but the opposite is also true. Trying to make him sound like he's to blame in this situation doesn't do any good either and please dont bring up the bear hunt it has nothing to do with cecil the lion. He made a mistake and paid for it, doesn't mean he deserves to automatically be guilty of whatever you want/need him to be in this case | |||
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I will probably not attend the SCI convention this year and the handling of the Cecile thing is one of the reasons why.The other is the pay money theme of the whole convention.If it is all about money interest maybe I should be looking at my own money interest. | |||
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I knew that would be the result. The media blew it out of all proportions. That is why I rarely comment early on, because I prefer to judge after all the facts are disclosed. Congrats on a beautiful lion. Sue all the libelous bastards. BUTCH C'est Tout Bon (It is all good) | |||
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Wise decision! LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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As far as I know the doctor paid for his mistake and was not put on life long probation and is legally allowed to hunt. Damn! Murderers get out of jail every day with less condemnation than the doctor has gotten from the rank and file here or at SCI. I can understand it from the antis but not other hunters. We seem to forgive most of the early elephant hunters who were nothing more than poachers who killed thousands of elephants for nothing more than profit! Because they wrote a couple of books they get a pass! Sounds a little hypocritical to me, but who am I to have an opinion? ..................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Getting off of the topic of this thread, but for you guys that don't support SCI (I'm not saying whether that's good or bad), what would you like a true hunting organization do? I guess what I'm asking is if you were to be able to have a perfect organization to support hunting, where would they put their efforts? I'm curious, if anyone doesn't want to get blasted for putting their thoughts out in the open, please feel free to PM me. I heal fast and don't scar. | |||
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As others have mentioned previously on AR, Peter Flack has some interesting ideas. http://www.peterflack.co.za/ You might look there. | |||
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Personally, I think SCI was in a no win situation. If they did nothing, they were going to get blasted. They are getting blasted now for doing something. Would they be blasted if Palmer was guilty? | |||
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I agree that when Cecil happened SCI was in a no win situation. It was a situation that they made by not being prepared however. If SCI had a real Public Relations program going on they would have monthly/quarterly lunches with all the major news organizations. They would feed stories on a monthly/quarterly basis to those organizations of success stories regarding hunting and conservation. Reporters/News Organizations love it when they get a story handed to them. When a Cecil event happened SCI's public relations guy would be the individual that those reporters and news organizations would call for an opposing view. Think of all the lies in the news reports on Cecil. Most of those would have been questioned or debunked prior to the piece going global and putting hunters in a much better light. Hunters had no one speaking out on there behalf regarding Cecil. I give complete credit to John Jackson for his performance and don't want to take anything away from him but there needs to be a true PR individual involved who is polished, smooth, knowledgeable and quick on his feet in an interview. News outlets were looking for an opposing view and NO one was there. The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times ran opposing views and were having to get a girl who grew up in Zimbabwe to give an opposing view. The anti's have there act together. They have PR people with close ties to the media and respond immediately to a phone call by a news agency. Hunters don't have an organization representing them to the public. If SCI was a business the President and Public Relations department would have been fired over Cecil. SCI's handling of Cecil could be a case study on how not to handle a public relations crisis. This 120 pound elephant could very easily become Cecil 2. Hopefully SCI, DSC, or another one of our hunting organizations is ready. | |||
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Spot on. Mike | |||
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Good point on the PR - but often the PR from the 'good side' is actually ignored by the mainstream media. Also - Why would SCI (or any other organisation) wish to discuss the case with the media - once Theo Bronkhorst was charged? Would they do it if one of their members were charged with a similar crime in the USA? I doubt it. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Remarkably you missed the whole point. The point was that SCI should have been regularly and aggressively communicating, educating and discussing hunting and conservation issues publicly, with the media, on social media and the like long before Cecil. The battle was already lost as soon as the Cecil story broke. Mike | |||
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