You have a choice for your next DGR rifle, what whould you pick?

Question:
Assuming accuracy is equal, which DGR rifle would you choose and why? Thanks for the help.

Choices:
Winchester Model 70 in .416 Rem Mag
Ruger M77 RMSL MkII in .416 Rigby

 

Can't vote,don't like the 416 Rem and don't like the Ruger RMSL. Leaves me no choice. Sorry. Why can't there be a catagory 'None of The Above' included in these polls?

Zim,
What do you like? They will used for buff and ele.

These are the two rifles that have been offered to me at the same price.

Thanks

Voted for the Winchester-- because it was a ruger MkII. If it was a tang safety .458 -- it would be my choice. I also am not big on 416.

I voted for the Ruger for the reason that 416 Rigby ammo is probably easier to find in Africa. I have an RSM in 458Lott. I chose this for the flexibility of 458WM or Lott.

My good buddy shoots a Winchester 416 REM. I will admit that the action is tighter and the feeding seems to be more sure than my RSM.

I voted for the Win. in 416Rem. I like that combo for a 416cal rifle, nice and trim, plus the weight won't be a bother.

I would love to hear some to the low down on why people think the .416 is so crappy....

I voted for the REM 416 IT IS A Great Gun. I also own the CZ458 Lott another great gun.

If the calibre was 375 or 45 - I'd choose the Win. Since you specified 416, I opted for the more versitle rigby vs the high pressure rem. I own a 416 Rigby in a Ruger RSM and a 375 in a Mod 70. I like them both.

Both are great rifles, however my best all around go to rifle is a Win model 70 in 300 win mag. Ruger makes a great rifle but they are un neccesaraly heavy. This is why Winchester gets the nod from me.

I voted for the Ruger in 416 Rigby. I like that cartridge.

Winchester if scoped and Ruger if not scoped.

I would vote for another make and round.

The Ruger RSM in 416 Rigby. The Ruger is an outstanding value for the $$, and the Ribgy ammo will be easier to find. Best, Starcharvski.

If these are the only two choices, I can't vote either.

I have a Ruger Safari Magnum in .375 H&H. It is a fine gun but as one poster said, it it too heavy and far too barrel heavy. I am not a Model 70 fan. I think the quality of the more recent Model 70's has been terrible. I opted for a CZ .416 Rigby in a laminated stock. It works like a charm.

Dave

I could go with either, but I voted for the Model 70 Winchester in .416 Rem, simply because that is what I have and took my Buffalo with, and had no problems. I also own a Rigby in #1 Ruger. Those that complain about quality should see my rifle, while not fancy it certainly is very nice, functions flawlessly and shoots one holers. I also would dare say that the .416 Rem is as numerous in Africa today as most and one would have no problems finding replacement ammo. Good shooting.

I don't think pressure is an issue with the .416 Remington...... this is a myth that may have been true when the round was introduced, but it doesn't ring true any more...... So don't make your choice based on rumor. Which rifle feels better to you??

Buy and then bed the Ruger. I have the 375 H&H version...they're tanks with out tracks. But heed the bedding warning......do it right away. If you don't, you have a high degree of probability that you will get some split wood....especially with the Rigby.
Also, I'd install a Timney trigger. It's very easy to do yourself and gives a VERY NICE pull.

There's my $.02.

Gary
DRSS
SCI
NRA Lifer
DSC

Sorry....forgot to mention....yes the RSM is heavy for a 375...but appreciated in a Rigby .

Gary

I voted for the Win M70 in 416, although the quality has gone to the dogs, those things can be fixed (bedding, Williams spring steel extractor, Williams one piece bottom metal, etc.) and you have a lighter well balanced rifle. And as most have found out the pressure-extraction problems of the 416 Rem. mag. are mythical especially using a CRF rifle. I like the 416 Rigby caliber better overall but in the Ruger your looking at a heavier rifle although built well, so have at it, either one will get the job done well.

I voted for the Winchester. Since you said it was a dangerous game rifle, I presume it is for a dangerous game hunt. For buffalo and elephant that means walking. If walking weight, even a pound or two, makes a big difference. The RSM is heavy and would be a pain to tote over considerable distances compared to the Winchester. In terms of bullet performance, I do not feel that there is any appreciable difference between the Rigby and the Rem Mag.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
I would vote for another make and round.

What would you vote for?

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
I don't think pressure is an issue with the .416 Remington...... this is a myth that may have been true when the round was introduced, but it doesn't ring true any more...... So don't make your choice based on rumor. Which rifle feels better to you??

Whitworth,
The Winchester feels the best, but that is all I used in the past. The Ruger feels a bit big and "thicker" but I have not shot it yet.

I like the actions on both and the performance of the rounds. I like the sights on the Ruger better.

dogcat,
I could not vote for the Ruger as I don't like the gun overall. They are far to barrel heavy the stock does not feel good ( far too many flat portions),bolt is ill shaped,stock cut for bolt does not look good, rib is not cleanly defined and on and on. I sold a Ruger in 416 Rigby earlier to a member of this forum and he used it sucessfully on Elephant I believe. I had modified the stock and replaced the bolt handle and still didn't particularly like it. I just don't like the 416 Remington for no real reason at all, just don't care for it period. I took my last Elephant with a 416 Rigby custom CZ550. I believe the Model 70 to be my favorite action of all and currently have 4 customs on that action. All personal choices as yours should be between the 2 rifles you are inquiring about.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
dogcat,
I could not vote for the Ruger as I don't like the gun overall. They are far to barrel heavy the stock does not feel good ( far too many flat portions),bolt is ill shaped,stock cut for bolt does not look good, rib is not cleanly defined and on and on. I sold a Ruger in 416 Rigby earlier to a member of this forum and he used it sucessfully on Elephant I believe. I had modified the stock and replaced the bolt handle and still didn't particularly like it. I just don't like the 416 Remington for no real reason at all, just don't care for it period. I took my last Elephant with a 416 Rigby custom CZ550. I believe the Model 70 to be my favorite action of all and currently have 4 customs on that action. All personal choices as yours should be between the 2 rifles you are inquiring about.

Zim,
What calibre to you prefer?
THanks

I voted for Winchester because most of my "goto" guns are winchester. In truth I would be comfortable with either. As to the Caliber - flip a coin. I'd choose based on the rifle.

Since you phrased it as "next DGR rifle" I voted for the Ruger because I already have the m70 in .416.

Overall I can't complain about the Winchester but I would bet the Ruger would be more accurate. Oh well, at least my m70 doesn't discriminate between types of ammo... it shoots everything into minute of RHINO.

Kyler

M70 416Rem. Aside from custom the others fall behind.

Has the M70 extractor FAILED anyone here?

The Ruger action (and CZ) pale in comparison to the M70. It's just plain fast.

I hear you can get a bad Winchester but I never have.

I recently owned the Classic Safari Express in 375, 416 & 458. All were well built accurate and reliable. The 375 was the only one with a shortcoming, it just didn't balance well. The same barrel blank is used for all and the smaller bore just made it too muzzle heavy. It also reversed the weight curve making the bigger bores lighter as you go up which isn't perfect but east to work over/around. Was going to cut 2" off the barrel but sold it to stoke the double rifle fund. It was for my wife and even if I lopped 2" of barrel it was still too big a gun for her and the 375 too robust. Scoped it still would weigh too much for proper handling. She'll get a CZ in 9.3 until I find or build her a 9.3 on M70 standard action. She just needs an all around rifle.

The 416 and 458 balanced perfectly. The 458 is now a Lott with all factory parts. At 9.1 lbs it's out of control with factory Lott ammo but my goal was to download Lott cases to 2200 fps. It too may become victim to the double rifle fund as the double will be the big bore for Africa and I'll just use the 416 on PG.

I will never sell the 416 and that's saying something.

Both are dogs-I had a 416 Rem. Win Mod 70-check my earlier post a year or two back-spent a fortune on a rifle that took 9 monthes to turn up on special order anyway-never would feed now how much I spent on it.Have a mauser built for you in that caliber if you want something useful or buy a CZ550 and spend a thousand dollars changing the safety,bedding and general slick-up.I have done that with a CZ 416 Rigby and it was well worth it.

Winchester has had some problems but I've never seen one that couldn't be fixed. CZ has real QC issues along the same line as Winchester. If you spend a grand on a M70 and can't get it to feed sounds like you need a new gunsmith. My 458 feeds upside down with the factory follower and spring. The factory followers on the 375/416 are pieces of shit. But when replaced with Wisner mag length follower and a 10% stronger spring they too will fire and feed at any extreme angle. This is what Mauser's were desined to do.

I'd spend a grand on a CZ. I wouldn't spend a nickel on a Ruger.

Buy the Ruger and sell me the Winchester- I'm looking for one and can't seem to find any.

Hang on. I've heard through the general grapevine(read it in one of my guns or hunting magazines in the last couple of months) that word has it that Winchester may be being manufactured again next year by someone. If proven to be true, that will be great news.

Woodhits, I happen to know a guy who has a new in box Winchester 375HH.....he may be willing to sell it.

Woodhits, I sent you a pm. I'm thinking I may sell ny M70 458WM/Lott but I'm not making any promises yet. I may have to wait unitl my 470 double is in hand and thoroughly wrung out.

I had both and they both shot really well. The Rigby was a sentimental favorite but the Ruger was too heavy and the stock too big for my taste. It did have a much denser grain than the newer Rugers. It also had a 24'' barrel which suits me more than the current 23'' and was more nicely finished. I've been to Africa 3 times with the M70 with no problems. I sold the Ruger but the real answer is to keep both.

I voted for the Ruger. Classic ctg.,gun is a bit heavy but reliable. My hunting partner had his two piece bolt seperate on his mod.70 and the bolt would not close! To me a very serious mark against the Model 70, and I am a Winchester collector (also a very serious Ruger collector as well ). Only 2 cents worth. Dr.C

Now the question should be New Ruger or used Winchester for the same price. I like the Ruger. It is too heavy for a .375, not for a .Rigby or Lott.

Sorry to be so long responding but I am in Nashville at my daughters for a month, I prefer the 416 Rigby and have owned several. Find them to be easy to load for and all have shot exceptionally well. In fact I have enough faith in the round that I sold my 470 double and kept one Rigby as a heavy ( I KNOW some will say it's NOT a heavy but it took an elephant for me) as I probably will never need more again. Only used the 470 once anyway. The only down side of the Rigby is the brass cost, but I don't plink with it so the Mast brass I have will probably outlast me. For me it's a work gun and I only shoot it for proficiency, not pleasure. For pleasure I shoot one of my .17 rimfires or my 257 Roberts. I'm sure the 416 Rem is an excellant caliber and the brass is more readily available and cheaper, I just never personally became attached to it. I would probably have a 416 Taylor if I didn't have the Rigby. Again purely personal not any thing factual at all.

I voted for the M70, both since I have that gun and since I think the Rem brass and factory ammo is so much cheaper. My only concerns with the .416 Rem is case pressure. Though I've never experienced it, and it appears from some of the comments on here that case pressure is no longer a concern. My concern with the M77 is the strength of the stock and bedding system. I broke three stocks on my .458 Lott in the weeks leading up to a Zim elephant hunt. I've since had the gun totally rebuilt by LeRoy Barry, and couldn't be happier with it.

Either one would be an excellent choice..

My preference in caliber is the .416 Rem and I have used it now for many years..Any pressure problems it has is caused by the nut that loaded it and I have not seen pressure in any of the factory ammo. A rumor that persisted without rime or reason, and if it were true then it would also apply to the .375 H&H. and that does not happen. Kinda like high pressure in the African heat, again that's a croc. The USA has the same climatic heat that Africa has.

As to the rifles I don't think there is a better deal out there than the Ruger 77 Safari model..It has a integral quarter rib, barrel band swivel, barrel band front sight and that alone on a custom rifle could run you $2500 or more for the barrel alone...and the 416 Rigby is certainly a nice cartridge, but to me its too big a case for what it does. I like a more compact, lean and trim rifle than most, but that's just a matter of choice. Both the .416 Rem and the 416 Rigby are equal in killing power in the field as loaded by folks today..a 400 gr. bullet at 2400 FPS...The 416 Rigby can be loaded to 2700 FPS plus, but that is a recipe for recoil and bullet failure in some cases...Same can be said for the .404 Jefferys.

My favorite new friend is a .416 Rem on a pre 64 Win. action with a 20" barrel..

Bottom line? flip a coin.