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Bullshit. ![[Mad]](images/icons/mad.gif){kind=icon} Pure, unadulterated bullshit. They admit that they seven 'long-standing' orders, but prefer to handle new orders first (hoping perhaps that those waiting a year or longer will just give up and go away?). Laying the blame for non-delivery on external factors is just more bullshit. If they are able to fill new orders, they can fill old orders. NOW. The fact that that they preferred to communicate with you privately (as opposed to 500grains publicly) is just more evidence of how chicken-shit they are. George | |||
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George, maybe they don't like your NYC attitude. It seems to me that GS has had a very common problem with "new success" in small business- Unanticipated demand. They are like a friend of mine who had a good,small T-shirt mfg. company. He got an order from Wal-Mart for 10,000 dozen to do a "test market" and it put him out of business. He couldn't supply and it demoralized the company who's employees had been waiting for the "big order". He folded soon after. | |||
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I placed an order (5 boxes)with Mike at Northfork and receieved my order the next week! I'm extremely excited about his bullets and glad to buy products made in the USA. | |||
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I agree with George. GS has invested more time making excuses than they have making bullets. If you want to chalk all this up to growing pains, then go right ahead. However, four things stand out: 1. GS has been less than honorable and honest with its customers. 2. They quickly took money knowing full well they could not produce product. 3. They still have not corrected these mistakes after two + years. 4. They continue to blame everyone else rather than admitting they have mislead their customers. If the company operated in the US, they would be guilty of mail & wire fraud and would have been permanently shut down. Good bullets or not, I would not have any further dealings with GS. Many around here are of the same mind. GS destroyed their market before even getting out of the gate. There are too many exceptional hunting bullets readily available from reputable manufacturers to put up with this type of crap. You only get one shot to make a good impression, GS blew theirs... | |||
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Read the thread: "Help getting rifle back" This is the kind of crap I'm sure GS has to deal with. What a nightmare... Leaving RSA sounds like a real good plan to me... s | |||
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quote:Dr. Duc... I believe your example is inline with GS, but in both cases they "bit off more than they can chew" your friend should not have attempted to fill an order he could not, as the case with GS. This is especialy true when your product expendable and customers can go else where to get similar products. Not to mention GS is being a dishonest man. There are many many, small custom bullet manufactures who have a great product and only take long orders, they tell you the circumstances and are honest. A good example is Bitterroots that man has been in business longer than most, and at times he has been backlogged by something like 2 years, but he is honest about it, which makes the choice made by his customers an informed one. GS's bullets maybe good, but the world for hunters and handloaders existed and will, without GS. | |||
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Gentelmen, the best bullet in the world is not worth shit, if you can't get it! Sounds a little like Art Alpin to me! you guys sure he isn't in RSA? DE Boolits no come, and me cash no come too! ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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I wonder how many of you have ever had to deal with things as they now stand in RSA, I don't think that any of that is BS, in fact I know what they say is absolute fact.... The postal dept., in fact the whole Indigenous Gov. is a damn mess of theives and hoodlums..Taxes are unbelieveable, it is an unfit place to live by our standards and I would never invest in business in Africa. The standard of living since the demise of apartied has been driven down, atrocities are up more than ever and on and on.. I don't know how anyone survives yet we as Americans are so quick to compare to our standards where we can operate a business, become successful overnight and never have these problems to deal with as we accept most of what hurts them as non problematic, We do have production problems but nothing like in RSA...I have tried to go into business there several times and it just never came about because of what we speak.. As for the excuses, refusal to communicate, thats all probably true and out of line, but they are probably about exhusted on the reply line... They should have been forthright with everyone as they were with Alf .. I think they are up to their neck in alligators with great product that they can't deliver for the reasons listed...I have no doubt of that.. I have no vested interrested in them, don't even know them, but I know people that do and they do have an honest reputation locally... I hope they figure out a way to overcome these difficulties, comply with all orders and it works out for them..I like those bullets. | |||
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Several years back I had an outfitter I book for bring me some .375"/270 grain GS FNs when he came over for the show season. I took him some original Trophy Bonded bullets when I next went over (.308"s and .458"s). The GS bulletsw are the solid "designated hitter" for my .376 Steyr which I think runs best on 270 grain bullets. I ordered some .458" bullets from GS for an article I was doing on a .450 HESAM -- those bullets never came, and I had to return the rifle to the builder. Since then I have "found" Mike Brady and North Fork bullets, and I quit worrying about GS' problems. Life is to short for this sort of thing. jim dodd | |||
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I was a trip to the bank short of being hustled by GS back in January. What alarmed me was how prompt they were in getting me the "Tax Invoice", but how evasive they were in regards to the delivery schedule. Mike Brady's (North Fork Technologies) website: http://northforkbullets.com | |||
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I feel in their letter of excuses, they should have included a refund check for the bullets not shipped to everyone that has not received shipment. | |||
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quote:The only thing that is fact is the BS meter is redlined by GS and their supporters. quote:If things are so bad why do you have a business booking hunts there? Why are the airlines able to work? Why do thousands of people hunt there successfully every year? How do those hunters get their trophies home? quote:that is your fault and has nothing to do with GS Custom. QB][/QUOTE] | |||
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Yep, A foul wind blows out of Port Elizabeth. Seven long outstanding orders? Is that all? I wonder if they are counting me, outstanding only since December 2002, and only out of pocket just over $500US? When they first started up here, I got orders in 3 weeks, then six weeks, then 6 months, then nothing. Not even an explanation or response of any kind for many months. When they stopped taking credit cards and required wire transfer of funds, I should have known not to mess them anymore, since this was a significant change in their modus operandi. I suppose the complaints got back to the credit card companies and GS got canceled on the credit card billing schemes. I was a fool for a bullet. The letter to Alf is nothing more than a rerun of what we have heard many times in the past. This is my final crybaby post on GSC's business failure. Never more. | |||
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Alf I think you made my point for me. Others have found ways around the problems. You can sit and wring your hands and point fingers or you can make things happen. It is too bad, what I hear is happening to RSA. Alf what do you think will happen in the next 5-15 years with the country. | |||
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quote:First of all, I haven't ordered from him; people I know from here have, so you can kiss my 'NYC attitude'. Second, these people have not placed huge orders (unless you consider 10 boxes of bullets to be a 'huge' order!). Third, the vendor charged at time of ordering, not time of shipment. Fourth, this vendor no longer even responds to customer inquiries (unless it is for new orders). Now, maybe folks in Florida are more patient, more trusting, or just too stupid to know when they're being bamboozled (see Election 2000 ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} ), but this constitutes a screwing of customers in NYC.George | |||
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Howard, I was not defending them and so stated, I was trying to explain the problems so that some would understand the reasoning behind a part of that...but since your so damn smart and have now chosen to judge my actions in Africa and them, I will gladly allow you or anyone else to pass judgment on them as I would have allowed you to in the first place.. As for me and your quick judgment on my business in Africa! I found your post rude, stupid, and uncalled for. | |||
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quote:I'm wondering the same thing. I'm still waiting for the order I placed in October 2001. | |||
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Not a problem Ray. I stand by what I said. I don't think anyone will read your post and see it as anything other then an excuse for and in defense of GS Custom. My orginal questions still stands. If things are so bad there that "I don't see how anyone survives" they why in the hell are you taking money from people and booking hunts for people in RSA? | |||
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quote:I think he summed it up pretty well, although I can see how his figures of speech may be left open to petty nitpicking. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} Karl. | |||
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I'm reminded of a talk by Gene Sacanlon, a Ph.d economist to the American Association of retail grocers. He stared by saying "The most ruthless creature in the world is the consumer. IRS gotcha by the throat? Tough. Union making your life miserable?Too bad! Can't get Fedx to deliver on time? That's your problem! I want it now at the cheapest price and I don't care about your problems." That is a paraphrase but it sums up GS. I've ordered from them and eventually got what I ordered. I might order again but I won't do it if I need anything in a hurry. I think Nosler can do anything I need. George you better thank God every day that BUSH won in FLA or CHUCK Shumer would already have your rifles in the bag> | |||
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GeorgeS, Speaking of elections, Y'all elected Hilary Clinton. | |||
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Dr. Duc, Believe me, NO ONE was happier than I when Bush was declared the winner in Florida. What appalled me was the antics of those blatantly stupid voters ('it's not MY fault'), and the attempt by the Democrat party to get invalid votes counted (for Gore, only). I am glad that Florida had enough idiots voting for the Democrats to ensure a Republican win. Ralph, I was born and raised in NYC; I now live outside NY and had NOTHING to do with Hillary's election. The downstate Democrats outnumber Republicans 5:1, and with a weak GOP candidate, many Republicans didn't bother to vote (Rudy would have blown Hillary's doors off!). Also, I think her 'celebrity/notoriety' helped her with the riff-raff (I call it the 'Jerry Springer' factor). I have voted for two Democrats my entire lie: Jimmy Carter (once, because Gerald Ford was a boob; little did I know how weak Carter would turn out to be ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon} ), and Ed Koch (three times).George P.S. A 'President Gore' would have gone after your guns, too. [ 07-21-2003, 19:41: Message edited by: GeorgeS ] | |||
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Howard, Your posts are ridiculas and without merit, they are simply troll like flames...you took my post and disected it just like a good Democrat would one of Bushes speaches, you took everything out of context.... I have no vested interrest in GS Customs and I do not use their bullets since all this took place..I am now using Bridger bullets which are near the same...I will be testing Bridger bullets this year on Buffalo and I have offered them as alternatives to those who want GS bullets. Apparantly your one trip to RSA has made you and expert on So. African politics and you know all about doing business in that country...Fact is you don't know anything about RSA and that becomes more apparant with each post you make. | |||
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When GS says they shipped bullets, and later admit that they did not, then they lied. That has nothing to do with the RSA postal service, local government regulations, material supply, etc. It has to do only with dishonesty. | |||
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500 grs., I said that in my post, I also said that the causation for lieing probably had come about from answering so many calls, and the frustration of not being able to produce..I have seen this many times when folks are doing their damndest to make a business go and it all comes down on them at once... this has happened to a hell of a lot of gunsmiths in the USA who take down payments on guns to feed the kids and then don't have the money to make the gun..You know that. I don't condone it but it happens all the time.... This is my last comment on the subject, if you guys want to hate'em have at it, its no skin off my a$$, but you will suffer more than they, and thats the shame. I have been in your shoes more than several times and I know how it smarts if you let it.... I, am going back to posting the things I like to talk about, guns, hunting, and shooting and conceed that those who chose to challange my post in anger are not wrong, but they gain little from their approach to it... | |||
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quote:Ok Ray whatever you say. | |||
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quote:Ray, I am not trying to rebut what you said. I just wanted to focus my complaint about GS on their dishonesty. Financial difficulties and delays are one thing, but dishonesty pure and simple is quite another. Gerard had a chance to build a fine business, but now he has branded himself as a con man. | |||
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500 grains, have you ever been broke, had a payroll stare you in the face, and the bill collector on the other line? If you had, you could more easily distinguish between dishonesty and desperation. Been there, done that. I won't cast the first stone. Dutch. | |||
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Dutch, GS has shipped other peoples' orders successfully during 500grains' long wait. They are still taking orders, although they are not delivering bought-and-paid-for orders to some people. Apparently, they have little regard for customers, and hope their 'Ponzi' scheme works long enough for them to get out from under whatever liquidity issues they have. It isn't the customer's fault if the vendor cannot run their business properly. EVER! George | |||
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quote:I do not understand why you would condone falsely reporting that orders have shipped. Then the blame the post office. But if all that were true, then filing an insurance claim and shipping replacement product would be no problem. But since it is all a lie, GS just wants to keep the cash and not ship the product. If I were broke and staring payroll in the face, would it be ok for me to break into your house and steal a few things to make ends meet? | |||
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Okay, GS service SUCKS... wish 500g could chargeback on his CC.... I'll never know how their bullets work... as I won't be buyign them... even if they moved in Porter and setup shop on my way to the range. jeffe | |||
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quote:I have and I think I can distinguish. As GS said they are shiping orders and expanding production. | |||
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500grains, I see you remain willing to cast the first stone. I know you are able to understand the difference between understanding and condoning. So quit putting words in my mouth. It's immature, as well as immoral. I have advised people NOT to play Postal Roulette with GS for at least a year. Look it up. I do not condone lies, I just happen to have been tehre. You took a KNOWN RISK, and now you are balling for sympathy. Boo-hoo. Secondly, the break-in analogy is hogwash and intentionally misleading. There is a difference between premeditated crime and inability to performed as intended. A lie in a desperate effort to buy time is not the same as a pre-meditated scam. I KNOW you understand that. You took a known risk, and it didn't work out. Deal with it. Won't be the last time that happens. Dutch. | |||
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quote:Bullshit. GS was not known as a bunch of thieves when I ordered more than a year and a half ago. But their reputation sure has gone downhill fast. By the way, when you say, "Been there, done that", what exactly do you mean. | |||
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| <Rusty> |
You mean folks have actually recieved their entire order while all this crap has been going on? There is no defense for what they have done. Honest people would have at least refunded the money. The two best quotes in all of this are Mac's and Jeff's. I have never ordered from them and, I never will. When it looks like a pile of crap and smells like a pile of crap, that's just what it is! There isn't enough PR or perfume to make it anything else. Unless y'all hire someone to get your money back, just chaulk this one up as a loss and find somewhere else to buy bullets you can get. If you don't, next year we will still be here piss'n and moan'n about bullets you haven't gotten! [ 07-22-2003, 19:42: Message edited by: Rusty ] | ||
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Rusty, you are so clueless. "just refund the money"? With WHAT, exactly? Elephant droppings? A guy who's broke, is broke. You know, someone who has just invested everything. It's possible he doesn't have a trustfund, you reckon? Yeah, there are guys that do that, you know, mortgage everything trying to make a go of it. Here's a newsflash for you: a guy who is BROKE CAN'T pay anyone back. That's the definition of broke. Just be DAMN glad you don't have a clue what it is like. Cause a lot of know it all's will be glad to kick you when you are down. As far as been there, done that, yeah, I've BEEN broke, about 15 days from a bankruptcy filing as a matter of fact. I MIGHT have embellished, exaggerated, and promised a few things to get over the hump. I simply had a choice between making a promise I wasn't quite sure I could keep, or close up shop, lose the house, and throw four breadwinners on the street. I chose to keep the house and keep the guys employed. I feel so EVIL making that choice. Ooohhhh, how COULD I have done such a thing? In my case, things worked out, and I turned out to be may banker's hero. Could have been his biggest enemy, just as easy. So I am sure you righteous, upstanding citizens would never, ever do that, and not ever would an exaggeration cross your lips. Not you! You would make your kids sleep under a bridge, but you would never fib! Sigh, Dutch. | |||
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Dutch are you invested in GS Custom? You seem to be taking this personally. | |||
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