I ran into a guy at the range last week who was sighting in for a hunt in Tanzania 30 or 35 days and Big 5 is that possiable, also said he was trying to take 50 animals total, he said the hunt was going to cost him $120K without taxidermy.

He could not shoot worth a crap huge flinch on his 375 alone worst on his 416 I figure his PH will get lots of trigger time.

I guess you could back to back a 28 day and a 7 day, not sure how he was planning on a "Big 5" hunt in Tanzania which would include a Rhino. Maybe Tanzania and SA?

Now that I have afforded the bennefit of the doubt, I think the guy is full of

Probably is full of it.... It really is amazing how many guys run around telling people about how they are hunting Africa etc but really have no idea what a Kudu looks like.

Let me say one thing about the guy he had $$$$ from what he was driving and the two new Sako W/Swarovski scopes, binoculars spotting scope and range finder all Swarovski.

Jim I see your in Redding my nephew lives out in Palo Cedro, Are you in construction? Redding sure has growen.....

quote:

Originally posted by Hunt-ducks:
Let me say one thing about the guy he had $$$$ from what he was driving and the two new Sako W/Swarovski scopes, binoculars spotting scope and range finder all Swarovski.

Jim I see your in Redding my nephew lives out in Palo Cedro, Are you in construction? Redding sure has growen.....

No, just a long retired "Old Guy".

When I lived in CA I went to a big private range. The South Bay Rod and Gun Club. It was a great place. $50 a year membership and a 100-200-300 yard range for rifles and 2 pistol ranges and trap. Trap was the only extra $$ at $5 a round. It is one of the few things I miss about CA.
I was always supprized at the amount of guys with big bores that were not going to Africa. They just bought them because wanted them. Or guys that at one time wanted to go to Africa and the first thing they did was buy a 460 WTHBY and it just never happened. There are a lot of guys out there with guns they don't need and can't shoot. Oh yeah, there are a lot of bullshiters also.

I live in northern Maine now and I am amazed at the ammount of guys bringing 338 and 375 ultramags, with 44 mags on their hips to hunt whitetail. Every year I get asked by at least one guy if his 416 will be big enough for moose.

quote:

Every year I get asked by at least one guy if his 416 will be big enough for moose.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, quite possibly, in a pinch

That's what life is all about. You know, there are tons of people who have been dreaming of going on a safari all of their lives. Chances are that they will never have the time, money or opportunity. But buying DG rifles is a way that they can keep their dreams alive. I'm all for it. I would never talk someone out of buying a 460 Wby or any one of the big bores. Hell, I've dreamed of going on safari since I was a young child and just now, at 34, I am finally getting into position to do it. I purchased my first DGR almost 15 years ago when going to Africa was about as likely for me as winning the lottery.

I guess I'm just saying to keep your dreams alive. And if that means buying a Rigby and only shooting at the range, so be it.

Well if the guy is going on said hunt in Tnz it sounds like one hell of busy trip.

50 animals, in 28 days is that even possible?

quote:

I guess I'm just saying to keep your dreams alive. And if that means buying a Rigby and only shooting at the range, so be it.

Life without dreams would be very dull indeed. Not worth living without dreams! I bought a .458 WM about the same time I first qualified as a PH - in 1982. Sure shot a lot of impala with that one - using downloaded 405 grain cast bullets. Then I got a .450 Lott. Shot a couple of warthogs with that one - using full house loads! Ended selling both many years ago. Finances and the realization that unless it's got two barrels, it's not really for me were amongst the main reasons.

Now I'm dreaming of getting a .470 NE double with external hammers! This particular beauty also have 9.3X74R exchange barrels! What a dream!

At least now I am in a position where I have an 'own' DG concession in Zimbabwe and I can go elephant or buffalo hunting. Must now just get that double to make this dream come true!

Yes, life is about having dreams - some turn into nightmares, but some can be made to come true.

Let me help you make your African Hunt dream come true!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren.

Encourage the dream.

I bought my first 460 WBY nearly 10 years before my first safari. Not because I "needed" it. But, because "the dream" needed support.

Have since had the great good fortune to visit Africa multiple times. And, on one excursion, to collect all of the Big 5 in a single trip.

Long live the hard working dreamer!

quote:

Originally posted by JBoutfishn:
I guess you could back to back a 28 day and a 7 day...

One can buy a hunt for as many days as they want. I hear of at least half a dozen 30 day hunts a year...The 21 day license, does not restrict one to just 21 days, you pay for the extra days at $100 a day in Gov fees plus whatever the outfitter charges for outfitting. You won´t get more animals than your 21 day license allows though. I know of 1 client that has purchased 3 consecutive 21 day hunts with 3-4 days break in between for a total of 63 hunting days with 3 full bags....

Some people are full of shit, others actually do the things they "tell" (often mnore like bragging) about but the most interesting people are the ones that just do it without a lot of fuss.

H-D,

I'm sure he had both Sako customized to be chambered in 45-70

Uglystick:

On my one and only trip to Africa for buff (using a 375) I was in camp when a man arrived from a certain country(I don't name it because I don't want to insult the country and its people whom I respect) This guy had a rifle that my PH told me was in fqactory grease with open sights and, of course, had never been fired. (He was going for elephant) MY PH told me that he wished his fellow PH "Good Luck". We actually saw him and his PH a few days later coming into camp -and the guy had a bloody nose.(He fired at an impala) My PH said it was the "Weatherby kiss" - but then he was a hard guy! Another story- I often hung around a small town gunshop on weekends. A guy picked up a 700 Weatherby Mag. By sheer coincidence I saw him on a local rifle range that same day. The range had about 70 firing points so I didn't see him fire his first shots. What I did see was him peddling the rifle for sale up and down the line! Fact. I well understand your post about people asking whether a 416 is OK for moose. (BTW, did you ask whether it was the Rem. or the Rigby?)

I know this guy was not me I have seen him at the range 2-3 times before with another guy, this time he was alone and in the bench right next to me, I just don't think he knew what he was talking about, he looked familiar to me like I have seen him on TV or something other then a milk carton, I asked him what he did for a living and he side stepped it several times.

Both his Sako where 75 one in 375 and the other in 416, he really did not no much about ammo as he said the PH just told him what to bring and his buddy told him what to buy in the way of guns and optics.

One good thing he gave me his brass and I got to shoot both his rifles, that 416 lets you know it's there.

I still don't know if he could do what he said he could on the hunt, I was just wondering if it was possable, you don't drive a $100,000+ toy and think the guy was a BS

quote:

Originally posted by cewe:
Some people are full of shit, others actually do the things they "tell" (often mnore like bragging) about but the most interesting people are the ones that just do it without a lot of fuss.

Truer words have never before been spoken.

I've only been once, but as soon as I finish paying for weddings, automobiles, houses, and Universiy Educations, I am going to go back and spend the kids' inheritance.

When I booked my first African hunt I didn't own a single firearm (never had), had never been to a range and had never really hunted before in my life. Plus, I didn't know a single person to ask for advice; not a friend or family member who hunted.

That's a fact.

It takes all kinds of people to make up a world.

quote:

but the most interesting people are the ones that just do it without a lot of fuss.

We need more folks like this. The ones you never know about till you go to their homes to visit.

I've always thought it was interesting that many African hunters have very little other hunting history or experience. PH's will tell you of guys that show up that hardly know which end of the gun goes "boom". I suspect these types are in the minority, but there's no doubt the African hunting dream has a way of smoldering in the hearts of many people for years, regardless of how much mud they've had--or have not had--on their boots.

quote:

Originally posted by gerrys375:
Uglystick:

Another story- I often hung around a small town gunshop on weekends. A guy picked up

a 700 Weatherby Mag.

By sheer coincidence I saw him on a local rifle range that same day. The range had about 70 firing points so I didn't see him fire his first shots. What I did see was him peddling the rifle for sale up and down the line! Fact. I well understand your post about people asking whether a 416 is OK for moose. (BTW, did you ask whether it was the Rem. or the Rigby?)

Speaking of BullShit!

Ducks,

The guy may have been reffering to the animals available on a 21 day license. If it is not fifty it is close to it. Of course you would need to visit at least three areas to see most of them. Some are really not worth shooting and some are not active during the day.

Best regards;
Brett

Maybe when the guy said he was going to be hunting the Big 5, he really meant the Big 4 plus Hippo. I say this because I have heard many people refer to the Big 5 plus Hippo as the "Big 6". Maybe he's just substituting the Hippo for the Rhino. Actually, in my opinion, it doesn't make very much sense that the Hippo isn't included with Ele, Buff, Rhino, Lion, and Leopard. It's the 2nd biggest out of the 6.


MacD37,

Yeah. I'd be interested to hear more about this "700 Weatherby Mag". Maybe he meant to say something else.

quote:

Originally posted by Spring:
I've always thought it was interesting that many African hunters have very little other hunting history or experience. PH's will tell you of guys that show up that hardly know which end of the gun goes "boom". I suspect these types are in the minority, but there's no doubt the African hunting dream has a way of smoldering in the hearts of many people for years, regardless of how much mud they've had--or have not had--on their boots.

Vic:

Boy, you can say that again. I am a bit dumbfounded by the number of people who only hunt Africa. I mean, it is nice, but in no way is a buffalo a better trophy than a six by elk shot in a public area. Look at Canuck's sheep photo - boy, if he did that all by himself, that guy is a hunter.

I have often said it before, but I will say it again...you can be out of shape, a crappy shot, etc. etc. But if you have enough dinero, you can fill a house with African trophies. of course, some African animals are harder than others, but the physical challenge just isn't there.

Maybe Saeed needs to add a gossip forum?

Spring, you are probably right. There are no doubt worms going to Africa with little or no hunting experience, but I have run into so many people with the same qualifications in a deer or elk camp in the western U.S. that it is not worth a comparison.

Money doesn't always seperate them either. I went on an RSA plains game hunt that was less expensive than the elk hunt I went on in New Mexico two years earlier.

I like to stay away from worms, lead throwers, and people that can't tell legal game before they pull the trigger. To me, finding a good hunting partner is more difficult than finding a good wife. That's why I've hunted alone the last twenty five years.

Kensco,
The thrill of an African hunt can scratch a variety of itches in the hunting community; for some it's a new hunting challenge beyond what they've experienced previously, while for others, it's a bold attempt to suggest some machismo where it may have been questioned earlier.
One from the latter group had just completed his hunt in Zim when I was there in 2003. This guy was from NYC, appeared to have recently retired, but obviously had rarely if ever hunted previously. He was a meek looking older man, probably around 65, that looked as if occasionally visiting Central Park on Sunday afternoon was his type of true outdoor adventure.
He was in Zim to elephant hunt. The new gun he had looked as if it came from H&H. To commemorate his late arrival at manhood, he had hired a videographer.
To make a long story short, the PH had put him on a big bull, one that would surely prove to those on Park Ave that this little fellow was a man after all. On the raw video, I watched as the ele approached at about 15 yards as the trembling hunter was told to shoot. Two wild and off hand blasts were hurriedly fired in the general direction of the big tusker, neither of which neared their target. This didn't sit too well with brute, forcing two follow-ups by the PH that quickly brained the ele. Suddenly, the market-savvy PH grinned and rushed to the Park Avenue Pansy and thrust out his hand in congratulations! Still dazed and in shock, the novice, looking like a deer in headlights, sheepishly gave a little smile and accepted the grand congratulations normally given to someone that accomplished great achievements.
Hero pictures were then taken as the wannabe stood proudly over "his" kill. The locals came, as they customarily do, and celebrated the visitor's success......
Today, somewhere in NYC are pictures of a proud elephant hunter, as glistening tusks adorn an expensive Manhattan apartment. The great adventure is recounted often I'm sure, but somehow I bet the video that came with it has been highly edited!

Several of you brought this up and made me think. I asked about others hunts and all he said was this will be my first trip to Africa.

I hope the guy is having a great time and becomes a confired gun owner and hunter we need all we can get here in Kalifornia.

I thought about the hipo angle vs the rhino and i'm sure that's what he was talking about as he didn't say anything about buying a paintball gun if he was a novice to hunting he might not know what a true Big 5 was.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Spring:
I've always thought it was interesting that many African hunters have very little other hunting history or experience. PH's will tell you of guys that show up that hardly know which end of the gun goes "boom". I suspect these types are in the minority, but there's no doubt the African hunting dream has a way of smoldering in the hearts of many people for years, regardless of how much mud they've had--or have not had--on their boots.

Vic:

Boy, you can say that again. I am a bit dumbfounded by the number of people who only hunt Africa.

I agree there are a lot of rich folks who hunt expensive hunts without a lot of real hunting background! However, I find a bigger percentage of them to be on Brown Bear hunts off sea going camps, or Elk hunts in fenced in private ranches where the "REAL TROPHIES" are hand fed, right here in North America. I also find the kind of hunters you speak of in Africa, tend to be repete customers of the RSA's shopping cart ranches. I'd say the reason most hunters in Africa are old is, because they spent their whole lives trying to make enough money to educate their kids, and to save a little to hunt Africa one time before they die.

Then there are those who lived in the west all their lives where hunting was a step off the highway, where one could climb mountains that touch the clouds, and have hunted all their lives, and Africa is simply the Holy Grail, and once they hunt Africa, the rest looses something that never comes back.That is my case. I have absolutely no desire to shoot another deer, of any size, or prong horn, or another elk, and I was never interested in sheep of any kind. I like hunting bear,caribou, and Moose, and of all things wild hogs. I'm fixated on cape Buffalo, and little else interests me today!

I started hunting at the tender age of six years, on my own with a single shot .22, and a single shot 410 ga shotgun, and never missed a hunting season of any kind till I was 43 years old, when I first made the jump to Africa, and little else other Africa, Alaska, and Canada, and the rocky Mountains interests me today in my 70th year!

If being rich were the only thing that lets you hunt Africa, I'd never have gone there, and I can hunt Africa cheaper than a outfitted Elk Hunt in a good trophy area!

Two pennies spent!

I'm with cewe. If the guy were the real thing he'd shut the hell up about it. Nothing worse than a guy that wants to impress people. The real impressive people are the ones who've done it for themselves and don't need to brag about it. Let us all aspire to that state.

There are some people with serious money out there. I met a man from Calif. in Vic Falls that was going for three elephant (females as I recall). It would be fun to be an observer on a hunt like that.

Also, this man didn't tell me what he was there for, the people he was staying with told me. I agree with Cewe and Bwanna. A real amateur hunter is one that runs around going "look at me". They probably didn't get enough attention as a child.

Toward the end of my second hunt in Africa, the ranch owner and PH came to me and told me that if I wanted, I could take their hunting vehicle and one of their trackers and shoot what ever I wanted. Somehow, in the 10 or 12 days I had spent hunting with them, they had developed enough confidence in my own judgment and ability to make me such an offer and I very much appreciated their trust. They had, after all, taught me almost everything I knew about hunting. Two years earlier, when I first arrived at the ranch and told them that I had never hunted before, and that 3 months before that I didn’t even own a rifle, they had not been so enthusiastic. But it became obvious to them after a short while that I had prepared myself well, and that I was eager to learn. I listened closely to their instructions and did what I was told and I didn’t have any of the preconceived and often incorrect notions about hunting in Africa that they said so many Americans often brought with them. So we had a fine time and a good hunt and I learned an immense amount about hunting, about wildlife, about Africa, and about Africans.

I have taken a liking to almost every African that I have met, black or white. They are almost always helpful, cheerful, positive about life and willing to give one a chance, and the benefit of the doubt. They are big hunters - and big men; knowledgeable, capable and humble.

On the other hand, and I almost hate to have to say this, but there are a lot of American hunters who are complete jerks. They brag incessantly about what great hunters they are, and seem to think that that translates into them being great men. (It does not.) They are often as arrogant as they are ignorant; knowing a great deal about ballistics, but little about life, and almost nothing about themselves - and delight in taking cheap shots at those they consider lesser hunters than they are. They may be big hunters, but they are little men.

I am now planning my fourth African hunt, for buff, and at some point down the road will go after ellie. I have no doubt that they will be great experiences, but I can’t say they will be as great as that first hunt. I am damned proud of that first hunt, and I won’t let anyone take that away from me. Everyone thought I was crazy. Some said it was just plain wrong. Others said that I wasn’t qualified, that I hadn’t earned the right to hunt Africa; that I should start out hunting squirrels, and after a few years try white tail, then maybe elk; or that Africa was only for those who grew up hunting. No one, and I mean no one, gave me one ounce of support or encouragement at all. – until I got to Africa.

As an afterthought, each of my sons has hunted with me in Africa, and, God willing, their sons will grow up hunting. Also, my niece’s husband, inspired by my own small adventures, took up hunting himself and now hunts every year with his young son. And he did it the same way I did, starting from scratch, hiring someone to teach him to shoot, and learning as he went. Good for him – and good for me.

S.

Great post, Seq.

Couldn't agree more with your observations of "little men." Here and abroad. Well done on seeing through it and rising above it.

Seq,
A great commentary and insight into your personal experiences. No doubt your initial crash course on hunting has worked out very well for you--and later your sons--which should be a wonderful legacy for them and an eyeopener for those that are surprised when a novice heads to Africa.

Seq,

Way to go. I respect what you did and the way you did it. There is no pre-approved "formula" for this thing we do.

As for braggarts and bullshitters, they can be found in every walk of life. Every conversation they have involves them, all that they have done and all that they intend to do as the main subject. It's not just hunters.

My problem is generally the opposite. I'll be at the range, minding my own business, practicing with one of my big bore rifles, and then someone or two near me will start asking me what I use such a cannon for, if they can see the cartridges up close, what's Africa like, etc., etc., etc. . . . .

Sometimes, if the range is crowded, I can hardly get my shooting done, and I'm not kidding, either.