THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM AFRICAN HUNTING FORUM

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  African Big Game Hunting    "Americans hunting illegally in Zimbabwe"?

Moderators: Saeed
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
"Americans hunting illegally in Zimbabwe"?
 Login/Join
 
One of Us
Picture of Karoo
posted
From a letter in South Africa's Farmer's Weekly, a pro-hunting magazine 7 March 2008:
"on a visit to Zimbabwean Kazuma Pan National Park an SA tourist came across entries in the visitors' journal detailing the animals hunted by an American group. They also discovered many fresh elephant carcasses with bullet-holes in the heads and the tusks removed. There is a photo of a journal entry '169 elephant bulls in 8 days. Nowhere comes close.' (Many other animals are listed in the visitor's handwriting.)
Animals were very skittish.
With ivory imports to the US being illegal, it is speculated that hunting could be helping to prop up the Mugabe regime."
This looks authentic and anyone have any knowledge of it? The park is advertised as not allowing hunting.
 
Posts: 787 | Location: Eastern Cape, South Africa | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Yeah I'm sure that Americans killed 169 bull elephant in one week (like the ele would stand around waiting to be shot day after day)...and then they wrote it in the visitor's journal? This looks authentic? Pure ca-ca.


_______________________________

 
Posts: 4168 | Location: Texas | Registered: 18 June 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I'm surprised a "pro hunting" magazine would publish such drivel.


____________________________________________

"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett.
 
Posts: 3527 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 25 February 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Bwana1
posted Hide Post
Maybe they SAW(not killed) 169 in 8 days....
 
Posts: 795 | Location: Vero Beach, Florida | Registered: 03 July 2004Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of MSsafari
posted Hide Post
There is no place in Africa that you could see 21 bull elephant per day for 8 consecutive days.
 
Posts: 51 | Location: Jackson, MS | Registered: 11 December 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
MS

Sorry but in the Hwange corridor you could easily see 21 bulls in one day. I can give you Mokore safaris references that will tell you of seeing 30-40 bulls in a day and seeing over 200 bulls during their hunt. That area in the late season can be absolutely loaded with elephant.

Karoo

'169 elephant bulls in 8 days. Nowhere comes close.' It does not say they shot 169 elephants. And what about US ivory imports being illegal? What BS.

Unfortunately the damage is done as some bunny huggers will embrace this as pure fact.

Mark


MARK H. YOUNG
MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES
7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110
Office 702-848-1693
Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED
E-mail markttc@msn.com
Website: myexclusiveadventures.com
Skype: markhyhunter
Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716
 
Posts: 13062 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I was at Save Valley Safaris last October. Ellephant were dam near a hazard last year. I was not counting bulls alone but there were many days where I estimate seeing over 200 elle in a given day and I wasn't hunting them. Coming down the river road at night was hair raising each time we did it. Ellephant are extremely thick in that conservancy.
 
Posts: 2826 | Location: Houston | Registered: 01 May 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Cunningham
posted Hide Post
Could it have possibly been a Photo Safari the journal recounts and the participants were finding the remains of poachers?


Global Sportsmen Outfitters, LLC
Bob Cunningham
404-802-2500




 
Posts: 580 | Location: I am neither for you or against you. I am completely the opposite. | Registered: 23 December 2004Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of L. David Keith
posted Hide Post
Why would any Hunters post their hunting stories or reports in a Nat'l Park register? That's more than odd. Illegal to import ivory? I think not. I was one of 10 persons who submitted testimonials to Hague (CITES) last June via SCI to block Kenya's efforts to ban ivory exports. We won (the entire hunting community). It is not illegal to export and import legally hunted elephant ivory from Zim. It is however, illegal to import (to the US) any trophies taken from previously white owned land. Those properties will be on the US Gov't's list. My take is it's bogus.
LDK


Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris
http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333
Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com
NRA Benefactor
DSC Professional Member
SCI Member
RMEF Life Member
NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor
NAHC Life Member
Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer
Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262
Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142
Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007
http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007
16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409
Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311
Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added
http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941
10 days in the Stormberg Mountains
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322
Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232

"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson

Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running......

"If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you."
 
Posts: 6825 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 18 December 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of N'gagi
posted Hide Post
It is pure BS. The line about the elephants was taken out of context and the author surely knows little about elephants "they bury their dead".

Here is a link to the article:http://www.swradioafrica.com/Documents/The%20Elephant.pdf


Mark Jackson
 
Posts: 1123 | Location: California | Registered: 03 January 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Safari-Hunt
posted Hide Post
quote:
There is no place in Africa that you could see 21 bull elephant per day for 8 consecutive days.


Last year August/September in Kruger Park it was more difficult to find cow elephants than bull elephants, bulls in small group to loners could be spotted everywhere I would say you could see over 30 per day easily.


Frederik Cocquyt
I always try to use enough gun but then sometimes a brainshot works just as good.
 
Posts: 2550 | Location: Pretoria, Gauteng, South Africa | Registered: 06 May 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of shakari
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MSsafari:
There is no place in Africa that you could see 21 bull elephant per day for 8 consecutive days.


I hope you won't mind my correcting you on that statement. There's plenty of places this would easily be possible.






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
And the question that begs too be asked,

Is it not now even more obvious that any monetary support that goes into Zimbabwe will end up in support of Mugabe.


Walter Enslin
kwansafaris@mweb.co.za
DRSS- 500NE Sabatti
450 Rigby
416 Rigby
 
Posts: 512 | Location: South Africa, Mozambique, USA,  | Registered: 09 November 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Karoo
posted Hide Post
All interesting stuff.
While it does seem rather far-fetched, I'm sure there are foreign hunters (from all over the world) who do use the Zimbabwean situation to their selfish advantage.
The magazine is a balanced, sensible one and I am sure next week there will be a counter article or letter.
 
Posts: 787 | Location: Eastern Cape, South Africa | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
another case of shooting the bull(s) bsflag
 
Posts: 13465 | Location: faribault mn | Registered: 16 November 2004Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MSsafari:
There is no place in Africa that you could see 21 bull elephant per day for 8 consecutive days.


First, I doubt that most tourist could tell the difference between a bull and a big cow ele. And most non hunting folks here seem to think that ivory is a bull only trait, like antlers and deer.

Second, I've seen as many as two hundred or so eles in one spot, all watering at the same river junction. This was at the junction of Dande and Chewore South hunting concessions and Mana Pools Nat'l Park. There were many bulls but the majority were cows.

And I've seen maybe a hundred elephants a day many times in Chewore and also in the Save Conservancy.

JPK


Free 500grains
 
Posts: 4900 | Location: Chevy Chase, Md. | Registered: 16 November 2004Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Wooly ESS
posted Hide Post
Hmmmm! 169 elephants in 8 days. Assuming that they meant 169 elephants SHOT in 8 days, and assuming 12 hours of shooting light per day, then that amounts to one elephant shot every 34 minutes! That's what I call setting a torrid pace, althought it is not nearly as bizarre as some of the feats of shooting I have been earnestly informed of over the years.

I call BS!

It probably is an account of sightings made by a viewing / photo safari that has been misrepresented. I think South Africa's Farmer's Weekly has been had. They need a remedial lesson in fact checking and logic.


The truth will set you free,
but first it's gonna piss you off!
www.ceandersonart.com
 
Posts: 574 | Location: The great plains of southern Alberta | Registered: 11 March 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I had a customer come into my office today who has a brother living in South Africa. It was reported to him that over 120 elephants had been killed in Hwange Park in the last few days by Zim "poachers" for their ivory. This is all hearsay but is something really happening over there that could even be close to reality?? Is the country so close to collapse that it has basically turned into a "free for all"?
 
Posts: 725 | Location: Texas | Registered: 18 March 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of MSsafari
posted Hide Post
I stand corrected.
 
Posts: 51 | Location: Jackson, MS | Registered: 11 December 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Sevenmag - There has been alot of illegal hunting by a couple of safari operators, principally in Chizaria NP and to a lesser extent in Hwange.

No it is not free fall- yet, BUT - considering the average parks ranger takes home less than US$10 per month and even the middle ranking officers clear less than US$50 per month, there is bound to be corruption. Keeping a check on this is also difficult due to the slowly disintegrating phone networks and the shortage of fuel that often prevents an Investigations officer from HQ from simply driving up to the parks when a report is made. We are slowly getting on top of the current problem though- but I am sure that a new one will surface as soon as the current bad eggs have been delt with.
 
Posts: 3026 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Go get them Ganyana. I have no patience for industry types who abuse their position and break game laws. Bad eggs indeed. Zim doesn't need any more of those and this is one thing that CAN be dealt with if Parks can keep their act together.


_______________________________

 
Posts: 4168 | Location: Texas | Registered: 18 June 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
B.S. As usual Please see the official responce below. I have the maps and will forward them to whomsoever requires them. fishunt@zol.co.zw

Don Heath

For Zimbabwe Professional Hunters & Guides Association


It was disturbing to read Sara Webster’s article, “The Elephant Killing Fields of Zimbabwe†in a recent issue of The Farmers Weekly. What Mr and Mrs Webster and their children came across would seem to portray a picture of the large scale slaughter of elephants in one of Zimbabwe’s game reserves, namely, Kazuma Pan National Park in the extreme northwest of the country. The scenes described suggest what many people are apt to think, that Zimbabwe is a pariah state that has no feeling for its national heritage. It is understandable that these views are held, given that no good news stories seem to come out of Zimbabwe. Unfortunately, however, Mrs Webster and her family did not enter the area in full possession of the facts. Naturally, furthermore, they would have been spared from their ordeal had the section of the park they drove into been signposted to indicate that they had entered an authorised hunting area and that the majority of the elephant remains they came across are those of legally hunted animals. Regrettably, they had to endure the sight of a considerable number of elephant carcasses out of context. Their conclusions are understandable, but the subsequent article, although well written, is damaging in its lack of research.

We hope it is some consolation to the Websters and to your readership to learn the following facts:

1. Kazuma Pan National Park is bordered by Botswana in the west, the Matetsi Safari Area in the east, Pandamasuie Forest in the north and Kazuma Forest in the south. Pandamasuie and Kazuma are Forestry Commission estates and both are controlled hunting areas. A sustainable hunting quota is allocated by the Zimbabwe National Parks and Wildlife Authority each year. The combined annual quota for trophy elephant bulls in Kazuma and Pandamasuie Forests since 2000 has been seven. Ngamo Safaris, a registered hunting and photographic company, has been running all safari operations in Kazuma Forest for over 25 years. Forestry Commission game scouts accompany each hunting party to monitor the trophies harvested in the area and to ensure that the stringent regulations pertaining to ethical hunting on Commission land are adhered to. The Kazuma Forest hunting camp is situated in close proximity to the southern border of Kazuma Pan National Park.

2. Often the skulls of trophy elephant that are harvested by safari hunters are carried back to the camp where the ivory is removed by experienced skinners. Once this operation is complete, the skulls are taken to a spot relatively near the camp and placed in the bush.

3. Descriptions given by Mrs Webster in her article would suggest that she and her family inadvertently travelled into the Kazuma Forest hunting area during their visit to Kazuma Pan National Park. This is easily possible as a certain section of the road on the southern boundary of the Park has not been well maintained and is overgrown with grass. There is, however, a well used graded road which branches inland into the Kazuma Forest hunting area. It would need to be confirmed, but it would seem likely that the family took this road and ended up driving passed the area where the skulls of trophy hunted elephant are scattered (what Mrs Webster described as a “Killing Fieldâ€), which is only a couple of hundred metres from the camp.

4. In October 2006 the area surrounding the camp was destroyed by a fire, hence Mrs Webster’s description of young sprouting Mopani trees. The blackened bones were likely to have been caused by the bush fire.

5. Professional Hunters and their clients often comment about their stay in the camp’s visitors’ book, including numbers of elephant and other wildlife sightings during the safari. Understandably, after seeing all the carcasses, and unaware that they had entered a legally sanctioned hunting area, the Websters will have interpreted the visitor comment of “169 elephant bulls in 8 days†as relating to the wholesale killing of these animals. The person who wrote this comment is John Moore who conducted a safari in Kazuma Forest in August 2005. The 169 elephant mentioned in his comment pertain to the number of bull sightings during his 8-day stay in the camp.

6. The dearth of elephants seen by the Websters can be attributed, not to the fact of what they interpreted to be horrific slaughter, but to the fact that at the onset of the rains the elephant move out of the area, no longer dependent on the boreholes which have been established in the Forest and which provide water to the animals in the dry season.

7. The carcass of a young elephant bull was discovered near the Botswana border along the Kazuma Pan National Park/Kazuma Forest boundary road at the start of the 2007 safari season. The bull had died of suspected poachers’ gunshot wounds during the previous rainfall season. This may well be the first carcass that Mrs Webster refers to in her article.

8. Professional Hunters that regularly conduct safaris in Kazuma Forest and who have read Mrs Webster’s article have expressed concern about the second sighting of a rotting elephant carcass with the skin still intact. It is mandatory for the meat and hide to be removed from any trophy-hunted animal. Mrs Webster quite rightfully mentioned in her article that the hunting season was over when her family visited the Kazuma camp in December. The last hunting safari in the area was completed in October. Perhaps this particular animal had, in fact, been poached

9. Professional Hunters in Zimbabwe work closely with the Parks and Wildlife Authority staff to curb poaching in Safari Areas, including Kazuma. Hunting parties usually travel long distances each day, both by vehicle and on foot, and often cover large areas that are not regularly patrolled by Park’s scouts. Any sign of illegal hunting activities are immediately reported to the authorities. Professional Hunters and their clients occasionally encounter dangerous situations with armed poachers. During a hunting safari in Kazuma Forest in August last year, Barry Style, when out with a Californian client and a cameraman from Bloemfontein, intercepted an armed gang of five Zambian ivory poachers. A contact ensued and the poachers fled the area, dropping their packs and some of their weapons. Had the gang not been detected by the hunting party they may well have gone on to shoot or wound several elephant.

10. In her article, Mrs Webster makes serious allegations about what she believes to be the Zimbabwe government’s sanctioning of large scale killing of elephants “for financial gain from the American trophy hunters’ fees as they plunder the last remaining game from Zimbabwe’s national parks.†There are several issues that need to be addressed here. Firstly, no safari hunting takes place within the boundaries of Kazuma Pan National Park, or any other national park for that matter. Hunting is limited to the concessions alone. Secondly, it is not only American hunters that visit Kazuma Forest, but others from Europe as well. Thirdly, the money derived from the daily rates and trophy fees in the concessions is not being siphoned off illegally, as the article seems to imply. A considerable amount of the safari revenue is ploughed back into conservation projects: maintenance of borehole pumps, employment of Forest guards, anti-poaching exercises, creation of fire-breaks, etc. The expenditure is controlled and monitored by the Forestry Commission of Zimbabwe. Fourthly, the game in the area is not being plundered recklessly. CITES determines the number of trophy elephant to be hunted in Zimbabwe, and the Parks and Wildlife Authority allocate the limited permits between the numerous hunting concessions throughout the country.

11. Allegations are also made against Rob and Barry Style whose family pioneered game ranching in Zimbabwe and have a proud history of wildlife conservation in Zimbabwe. The fact that they are still managing to operate ethical hunting safaris is, in no way, an indication that they are “cronies of Mugabe†as Mrs Webster is wont to believe. Their conservation efforts are clearly documented in a number of books, magazine and news articles, and even on television programmes, including Carte Blanche and the BBC. Barry and Rob’s passion for wildlife sees them currently involved in rearing two orphaned black rhinos on Buffalo Range at a considerable expense, much of which is being covered by their safari operation.

12. Mrs Webster’s claim that “the game hunters have now claimed this land and game watchers are no longer welcome†is far from the truth. A number of reputable companies conduct photographic safaris and game viewing tours in Kazuma Pan National Park. They too keep an eye out for illegal hunting activities in the area. Had there been a mass slaughter of elephant in Kazuma the Professional Guides would have reported the incident to the appropriate authorities long before Mrs Webster’s visit to the area. Photographic safari companies that are reliant on revenue derived from tours in to Kazuma Pan are extremely concerned about the negative implications that Mrs Webster’s article will have on their business. Furthermore, the guides’ frequent visits to the Park are critically important for the survival of the wildlife. Without their presence, particularly during periods when there are no legal hunting parties on the ground on the adjoining safari concessions, poaching activities could escalate.

13. Had Mr and Mrs Webster and their children stayed within the boundaries of Kazuma Pan National Park they would not have come across what to them was the disturbing site of elephant carcasses. No such sites exist in the Park, where hunting of game is banned. It is not always possible, however, to stop the poachers. Mrs Webster must realise that the Zimbabwe Professional Hunters are on her side when it comes to the preservation of the country’s National Parks and its wildlife heritage. A number of people are uncomfortable with the death of animals caused by hunting. However, were it not for the presence of hunting parties in an area that is renowned for its elephant bull population during the dry season Kazuma Forest would surely be a prime target for ivory poaching activities.

It is hoped that our response to the Websters’ story has helped to put the record straight and to alleviate them of their concerns for the welfare of elephant populations in Zimbabwe. We commend them for this concern and trust that they, and your readers, are now suitably informed.

The survival of the wildlife in Kazuma Pan National Park is largely dependent on the presence of tourists. As far as Zimbabwean Professional Hunters and Guides are concerned, the game is far from over. They remain dedicated to protect the country’s wildlife.
 
Posts: 244 | Location: Zimbabwe/Sweden | Registered: 09 January 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Thanks for the good info. To clarify, my "go get them" remark was intended for the bad operators that were mentioned by Ganyana, not the phantom American poachers.


_______________________________

 
Posts: 4168 | Location: Texas | Registered: 18 June 2001Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  African Big Game Hunting    "Americans hunting illegally in Zimbabwe"?

Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia

Since January 8 1998 you are visitor #: