I have been out of the loop the past few months so perhaps something happened. I cant get in touch with him I keep leaving messages to which he hasnt returned my calls to me or my assistant. Does any know anything about where he might be or what he is doing, Its a bit eairly for him to be Coues Deer hunting in Mexico and I have been trying for over a month to get a hold of him, I spoke to him at SCI an a friends cell phone this past Jna and that was the last time and he seemed off center a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by LV Eric:
I have been out of the loop the past few months so perhaps something happened. I cant get in touch with him I keep leaving messages to which he hasnt returned my calls to me or my assistant. Does any know anything about where he might be or what he is doing, Its a bit eairly for him to be Coues Deer hunting in Mexico and I have been trying for over a month to get a hold of him, I spoke to him at SCI an a friends cell phone this past Jna and that was the last time and he seemed off center a bit.

Maybe he screwed another Drug Dealer out of a $50,000 rifle?

Mickey-That's not nice!

i dont sell drugs, however he is MIA with some of my $$$. I hope he calls.

LV Erich,

David Miller is in his shop in Tucson. I saw him Sunday and I spoke with him on the phone Monday. In fact, I just spoke with him on the phone and he couldn't understand why you're having problems. He told me he would call you.

Hope that helps.

Tom

Tom

LV Eric,

I know you already have some nice guns.

So, what is your next project with David Miller? Are you going for a big bore or a long range deer shooter? He sure makes some nice rifles.

Tim

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:
Maybe he screwed another Drug Dealer out of a $50,000 rifle?

I'm definitely out of the loop! What does this comment mean???

I was in his shop twice this week, most recently yesterday. He is very busy, and it is hunting season. I am sure he will get back to you. I may have distracted him from calling you by stopping by. Sorry. If you send me a PM with your name I will gladly stop in and ask him to call you on Friday when I am in his neighborhood.

quote:

Originally posted by trathner:
I may have distracted him from calling you by stopping by.

Are you serious? He hasn't called LV for weeks and you stopping by out of the blue prevented him from doing that?

That doesn't pass the laugh test.

I'm with AnotherAZWriter on that one! sounds more like planned damage controll to me!!

I'm not sure why he isnt calling me, we have awalys been cool. Guess I'm just going to jump on SouthWest and have a look for my self.


Something isnt right, I awalys return calls. I even left my assistants # for him to call incase i'm unreachable, he hasnt hesitated to call her for $$$ in the past.

I'm not going to pass any judgement yet, and let it slide for now, however I dont have much more patients and it will be a bad thing if it keeps its current course. It is a mistake to take me lightly.

quote:

Originally posted by Tsquare2:
LV Erich,

David Miller is in his shop in Tucson. I saw him Sunday and I spoke with him on the phone Monday. In fact, I just spoke with him on the phone and he couldn't understand why you're having problems. He told me he would call you.

Hope that helps.

Tom

Tom

Tom, Please check your "Private Messages"

quote:

It is a mistake to take me lightly.

I have heard that phrase before; fortunately never directed at me. When the talking stopped is when I knew to have the on call hand surgeon paged to the emergency department. Medicine, Chicago style.

lawndart

I often lurk at this site to get great info from experienced hunters.

As some of you may recall, I wanted to build a custom rifle or two and get rid of my factory ones.

Not that I can afford David Miller, but is what I am reading an indication that he is either not providing service or else is witholding money that a customer wants back?

Seems odd that Mr. David Miller would not return phone calls in so long unless he was avoiding a customer for some reason. That is bad business.

Am I missing something here?

quote:

Originally posted by BrooksRange:

Seems odd that Mr. David Miller would not return phone calls in so long unless he was avoiding a customer for some reason. That is bad business.

Am I missing something here?

I don't think so. It is not only bad business, it sets the tone for a lack of trust.

I don't care how good of a rifle the man builds or what he charges. If he has a deposit on a rifle and the customer has questions or concerns, he better be returning phone calls.

It is an uneasy feeling when you send someone a load of $$, and simply hope for the best.

I've never had a problem with communication with the smiths I've used.

But Miller has a long standing reputation, and I'm sure, a certain level of arrogance/confidence has come along with it. It doesn't matter, he is still a servant of the public, just as I am.

I agree. If that happened to me, I would not trust David Miller anymore either. BUT, there are two sides to every story. What happened to you guys with David? Details please...

Luckily, there are 2-5 other top smiths that get mentioned here quite often. D'Arcy, Gene Simillion and Mark Penrod come to mind.

This thread is heading the wrong way FAST, I do trust David, and like him, however i cant seem to contact him, I know that there are people here who know him and can sort things out for me, simple as that, my statment that i'm not to be taken lightly wasnt directerd at Mr. Miller it is a statment of fact.


I just need to talk to David and see what the status of my guns are, nothing more nothing less, Lets pass judgement after I speak/see Mr. Miller. There are 2 sides and I am a forgiving person as well,


Hell all I want to do is hunt 60-75 days next year and I have every intention of doing so.

silence is what i have got thus far...

every time something like this happened to me it seems like the results are the same. no product, no returned money.

Eric,

It's time for a registered letter. He may have a bug up his ass about something, but he should answer inquiries about work in progress, even if it is perfunctorily.

George

Eric-

I had to get in touch with David back in July to get an estimate for replacement cost of one of my rifles for the insurance company. I left him a couple of messages and didn't hear anything. That being the case, I sent him a fax requesting the information and he called me back right away.

Pete

Are you willing to pay his hourly rate to speak with him?

TIME is MONEY. And yours probably one of many many rifles he has going at one time.

There is no way in Hell that David Miller would screw someone. His reputation is too valuable for that.

And what do you do when the other person you are dealing with has the same attitude as you do. "it is a mistake to take me lightly". He might feel the same way about you.

I just think its B.S. to go on a public forum like this one and complain about a very reputable builder like Mr. Miller without privately exploring all other options first.

quote:

Are you willing to pay his hourly rate to speak with him?

Are you kid'n me?

If the man gave him money for a project he should be able to at least speak with the person working on the project. Now there may be circumstances surrounding this matter, but it seems to me that he's has the man on a retainer!

I spent the better part of a year not being able to talk to the gunsmith I had given money and part to build 2 rifles. When I got the parts back, nothing had been done.

He has every right to talk with the gunsmith in question!

Rusty is right!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Are you willing to pay his hourly rate to speak with him?

TIME is MONEY. And yours probably one of many many rifles he has going at one time.

There is no way in Hell that David Miller would screw someone. His reputation is too valuable for that.

And what do you do when the other person you are dealing with has the same attitude as you do. "it is a mistake to take me lightly". He might feel the same way about you.

I just think its B.S. to go on a public forum like this one and complain about a very reputable builder like Mr. Miller without privately exploring all other options first.

You assume too much. The world is full of people with high public profiles that end up screwing someone. Gunmakers are certainly not immune to this as many posters here can tell you.

Public forums keep us all as straight as we are able to be kept.

It's always nice to have both sides of a story before getting ones panites bunched up.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Lou:
It's always nice to have both sides of a story before getting ones panites bunched up.

Dr. Lou

You said it much better than I did, although I believe women's underwear is spelled p-a-n-t-i-e-s.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Lou:
It's always nice to have both sides of a story before getting ones panites bunched up.

I'm sure Eric would love to hear Miller's side of the story. Unfortunately, he doesn't appear to want to give it.

It's difficult to have a conversation when the other party ignores you.

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Are you willing to pay his hourly rate to speak with him?

TIME is MONEY. And yours probably one of many many rifles he has going at one time.

There is no way in Hell that David Miller would screw someone. His reputation is too valuable for that.

And what do you do when the other person you are dealing with has the same attitude as you do. "it is a mistake to take me lightly". He might feel the same way about you.

I just think its B.S. to go on a public forum like this one and complain about a very reputable builder like Mr. Miller without privately exploring all other options first.

You assume too much. The world is full of people with high public profiles that end up screwing someone. Gunmakers are certainly not immune to this as many posters here can tell you.

Several years ago, I took a stock that had been shaped and inletted from an exhibition piece of English Walnut to a well known gunsmith to have him finish sanding, final inlet, glass bed, fit a recoil pad, checker, and apply an oil finish. I gave him a $250.00 deposit. He told me it would take 8 to 10 months for the project. After 2 years, I still didn't have it in my hands, so I decided to stop by to see how it was coming along. They hadn't even touched it after 2 years. After the first 10 months had gone by, they kept telling me that it would be another 2 months due to backlog. This went on for the next year. I decided to take the barrelled action and stock back. When I asked for my deposit back, they refused. So, yea, there are enough people with high profiles out there that will screw anybody.

"Are you willing to pay his hourly rate to speak with him? TIME is MONEY."

EXACTLY...I pay a gunsmith money and I expect a certain amount of his time throughout the process of building my weapon! I want regular communication detailing the specs of the rifle, any changes that may need to be made on either side of the bargain, updates as to the progress being made and finally conversations about estimated delivery time. Time spent talking to actual or potential customers is built into the price of a product or a gunsmith had better not expect repeat clients! The day gunsmiths start billing like therapists is the day I take up archery.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

I had a best grade mauser commissioned a few years ago,wasnt well known but did great work,paid him upfront,he had plenty of time to talk,but none to do the job! He kept doing and completing work taken after mine,while mine collected dust.
Eventually I pulled the job,he kept money for work he didnt complete,and also "lost" some blackburn parts without reimbursment. Eventually I was glad to finish with him.It was no loss,actually a real blessing for the future.
Moral of the story is,How he treated me is different to how he treated others, same can be said maybe for Mr. Miller.
It is possible to be too nice in business,be you customer or provider.

I've been chastised here once already but I guess I am a glutton for punishment.

I have spent alot of time around at least one custom gun maker in Arizona (not Miller although I do hang out with him a few times a month at the range). But with this other fellow, and there is one thing I noticed. His dang phone never quits!!!! People order rifles and expect to be able to spend a few hours a week on the phone with the guy!! I am not exagerating. God bless you if you can afford one of those high dollar rifles that Miller and others produce, but let the guy get off the phone and build flippin rifles!!!!

I test shoot and sight in rifles for this one guy sometimes, and I'll stop in to pick up a rifle to take to the range and this guy is on the phone forever, with customers.

There are some gun builders out there that are jerks like all other businesses.

But if you think that paying the guy to build a rifle gives you the right to get a certain number of therapy sessions from the rifle him each week, then don't expect to get that rifle done on time.

Let em build the dang rifles and shut yer yaps!

Mr. Miller is a great craftsman, but it's not his craft alone that got him to the top of the ladder. He had to be a great salesman as well to sell his craft and build a strong referral base; and just like any other top salesman in his field, there comes a time when you get complacent and forget that true value of customer service.

I don't understand sales people not returning their phone calls. I don't care if you are the king of the world, if I have paid you for your services you can find two minutes of your time to atleast return my calls.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
I just think its B.S. to go on a public forum like this one and complain about a very reputable builder like Mr. Miller without privately exploring all other options first.

i dont need to put any details in the srteet. lots of people here know me and thats enough to establish my credibility, i just need to find david simple as that, beyond that its none of your business.

Just curious-Any luck reaching him yet?

I know that I would be concerned if I could not get through after several weeks of trying.

found him, everything is cool. were going hunting!

I'm glad things got worked out for you.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeh416Rigby:
I'm glad things got worked out for you.

me too