quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I don't think there are many people who have used the Barnes X 300 grain 375 caliber bullet on as many game animals as I have.

And I have never encountered a single failure.

I have seen them penetrate as much as a round nose solid in a zebra - lengthways.

I would not use them out of choice on elephants, but, if there is no choice, I dount there is any better bullets.

I still say for a dedicated heart/lung shot they might be the best choice.

No need for expansion. As 465H&H said well, elephants are "soft" when it comes to succumbing to heart/lung shots and die quickly. (Possibly because their lungs are not "free floating" like other animals and are instead attached to their rib cages?)

The greater issue is ensuring that the bullet reaches the heart/lungs of the elephant, or breaks the bone required to get there at some angles.

JPK

I've considered this scenario (X on ele) in the past but only as further justification to using the X bullets when hunting anything other than elephant in elephant country, such as in a .375 "light rifle" being carried for buffalo and plainsgame.

I would never consider using an X in any caliber out of CHOICE, as was pointed out, the shot dynamics change rapidly and even if you get and make a perfect H/L shot, you need to keep shooting and the angles thereafter will not be perfect. And hey, who knows, your PH might miss!

Too, there are big elephant then there are FREAKING BIG elephant. There were some Hwange brutes that I walked up to where the feet got real heavy, and whatever you are carrying is going to feel real small.

quote:

you need to keep shooting and the angles thereafter will not be perfect.

I never said follow-up with a TSX. My statement was explicitly...if you had a crystal ball and you knew 100% for sure you were gonna take a broad-side H/L shot 1st...a TSX "might" be the best choice.

Ceratinly, solids would be the best choice for follow-up raking shots...as well as both brain presentations. For a side-brain, a TSX "might" work fine. For a frontal, it would probably be iffy!

Again...I am only talking hypothetical! When hunting ele...only solids will be chambered in my rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
Too, there are big elephant then there are FREAKING BIG elephant. There were some Hwange brutes that I walked up to where the feet got real heavy, and whatever you are carrying is going to feel real small.

Jeez Bill, when I'm making that final approach, on any elephant, my rifle starts to feel like a toothpick!

It seems to get smaller by the step too!

JPK

John, yea, especially the first couple of approaches of a hunt, after not being around elephant for a year or more, the "What the hell am I doing" thought crosses my mind! But I do find that the longer one tracks a particular elephant, the easier it becomes!

quote:

Originally posted by levdm: I am only talking hypothetical!

Copy that!

One of the most beneficial consequences of this forum is the opportunity to allows less experienced (or just curious) individuals to benefit from objective, fact-based information from those who have been fortunate or lucky enough to gain a greater degree of experience in a given area. Bullet performance and selection is certainly one of those areas.

I've used Barnes X in many calibers and on DG and large, thin-skinned game, 99% with good to excellent results. That means from the .375 to the various 40 calibers, and then taking many head of game with the 570 grain X bullet in the .510 out of a .500 NE double. I've taken close shots, running shots, distant shots, quartering shots, head on shots, point of the shoulder shots and so on. No failures, no disappointments. Of course, this information is all anecdotal and a very small number for any scientific result; nonetheless, my use of the bullets have been very similar to the comments of Saeed and his use of the 300 grain.

As a lifetime handloader, my rule is if my barrel will shoot Barnes bullets, then I will usually use them first-- on some game. Not for elephant. I have to agree completely with Ivan's comments (and MJines for that matter) about what one should carry in one's firearm when hunting elephant. I want my rifle to be loaded with solids, 100% of the time. In London-made doubles, I use a lead centered solid such as Woodleigh; not monolithic. Most of the time, these Woodleigh solids are reloadable after being recovered under the skin at the back of an elephant's head, following a frontal brain shot. I often roll the recovered bullets on the hood of the cruizer as a field test to see if it is still concentric. Most are.

Would a Barnes X in a heavy caliber kill an elephant with a side brain shot, properly placed from a close distance? I would think so, but I don't like those academic arguments. Just for me, I will stick with a tried and true solid traveling at about 2100 fps, properly aimed from a close distance. It is deadly.

As a field test of the 570 grain Barnes X shot from a .500 NE 3" double, I tried to recover the expanded bullet from feral hogs here in Texas. I knew there would be a problem with overpenetration and an inability to recover the bullet, so a shot was taken at a mature, 350 +lb sow running straight away at about 60 yards. The bullet entered in the right ham, three inches from the tailhead. I thought this would be great. The hog folded and skidded on her side upon impact. When I examined the hog, there was a clean, 3/4" exit hole just above her right eye -- meaning end-to-end penetration. No recovery. I tried the experiment again at a slightly different angle and was able to recover the bullet from this second hog and the pedals were fully opened and perfectly formed. I've noted many similar results on cape buffalo and the bullets looked the same. Again, this is just my experience and I will continue to use the X bullet, now TSX. But not on elephant.