quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
WHY wern't these people in shape? They left a wounded Buff and went to the truck? Shit Show

probably an elderly couple and been there and got the T shirt

Having just wounded his buffalo the client ought to have given some consideration to his responsibility to assist Greg in the follow up. We will never know the reasoning behind his turning back; if it was exhaustion they'd have been wiser resting up as opposed to expending more energy walking back to the vehicle. I'm sure he has 20/20 hindsight now and regrets his decision.

Having known Greg for over 40 years, his passion for hunting and his experience would ordinarily have aided him 98% of the time but this industry has its risks and Greg knew them, as we all do. Nobody is at fault here really, we all become victims of circumstances at some point in time. Lessons are learnt and knowledge applied as best we can going forward.

Rest easy Greg, you were a good man and will be sorely missed by family and friends.

Sidagwa, Sidagwa.......

This is horrible news.

We nearly booked a leopard hunt with Greg in 2018. I enjoyed my chats with him at the hunting shows.

May be the professional hunter thought the client would be a hinderance??

I have heard stories where professional hunters have said they would prefer that certain clients NOT follow up on dangerous game!!?

Some actually said they were scared of being shot! by the client!

I only have a few comments. First, what a tragic accident and my prayers go out to Greg and his family. Second, I've done the wounded buffalo in the long grass thing and hope to never repeat the experience. It's the closest I ever came to getting hurt by a buffalo. And my final comment is that I'll hunt as long as I can, but the day I can't finish a follow-up is the day I hang it up. In fairness to the client, he may have been concerned about his wife, but he could have sent her back with the game scout and gone on. That said, the PH might have called it and figured out he was more of a liability than an asset. We'll never know.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I only have a few comments. First, what a tragic accident and my prayers go out to Greg and his family. Second, I've done the wounded buffalo in the long grass thing and hope to never repeat the experience. It's the closest I ever came to getting hurt by a buffalo. And my final comment is that I'll hunt as long as I can, but the day I can't finish a follow-up is the day I hang it up. In fairness to the client, he may have been concerned about his wife, but he could have sent her back with the game scout and gone on. That said, the PH might have called it and figured out he was more of a liability than an asset. We'll never know.

I completely agree. If I'm not physically fit enough to finish a follow-up, then I'm NOT pulling the trigger on a buffalo.

One thing I know for certain, I would not have allowed my wife to go on the follow up.

My wife was with me in 2023 when I shot two broken horn bulls in the space of a couple of minutes. But, she stayed put after the fust bull was down and didn't chase the second. She was accompanied by trackers and I think the game scout was back there too. We were running and not looking back. She's been on some buffalo hunts, but I don't like follow ups and she hasn't seen one. But I agree, I wouldn't take her along if it happened.

I suspect at $5+million, no PH is going to turn away such a client from hunting with him anymore. Dangerous or not, the client would probably just find another PH willing to take him and his family on safari. I suspect this scenario repeats itself many times every year in Africa.

Having known Greg for over 30 years and hunted with him on a number of hunts in Zimbabwe I think that Greg would have told the client and his wife that it was not a problem for them to go back to the vehicle with the game scout, he would continue and try and finish the buffalo off. Thats just who Greg was. But in my personal view if the client can not continue then it is up to him to take over and say nobody must continue. He should take responsibility for the bad shot and call the hunt off. Too many lives are at risk. Try and get the vehicle in and continue the follow up from the vehicle. If the vehicle can not be used then another PH called in to assist, another plan can be made. I agree that everyone has bad shots and shit happens, but when lives are at risk then the best plan to keep everyone safe must be made, even if it means leaving the wounded animal for the lions to sort out. A trophy is not worth someones life.

quote:

Originally posted by ifnotwhynot:
Having known Greg for over 30 years and hunted with him on a number of hunts in Zimbabwe I think that Greg would have told the client and his wife that it was not a problem for them to go back to the vehicle with the game scout, he would continue and try and finish the buffalo off. Thats just who Greg was. But in my personal view if the client can not continue then it is up to him to take over and say nobody must continue. He should take responsibility for the bad shot and call the hunt off. Too many lives are at risk. Try and get the vehicle in and continue the follow up from the vehicle. If the vehicle can not be used then another PH called in to assist, another plan can be made. I agree that everyone has bad shots and shit happens, but when lives are at risk then the best plan to keep everyone safe must be made, even if it means leaving the wounded animal for the lions to sort out. A trophy is not worth someones life.

It does not work that way and what seems like a quick follow-up ends in a death march and water runs out but the PH wants to conclude the hunt. No There are always ifs and buts.

quote:

Originally posted by ifnotwhynot:
Having known Greg for over 30 years and hunted with him on a number of hunts in Zimbabwe I think that Greg would have told the client and his wife that it was not a problem for them to go back to the vehicle with the game scout, he would continue and try and finish the buffalo off. Thats just who Greg was. But in my personal view if the client can not continue then it is up to him to take over and say nobody must continue. He should take responsibility for the bad shot and call the hunt off. Too many lives are at risk. Try and get the vehicle in and continue the follow up from the vehicle. If the vehicle can not be used then another PH called in to assist, another plan can be made. I agree that everyone has bad shots and shit happens, but when lives are at risk then the best plan to keep everyone safe must be made, even if it means leaving the wounded animal for the lions to sort out. A trophy is not worth someones life.

A wounded buffalo killed the armed PH and you would just abandon the hunt because this is a possibility? What about the hapless villager that might stumble upon the wounded Buffalo after you put your poorly placed bullet into it?

When a buff is wounded, he doesn't generally go where a vehicle could follow. Not an option.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
When a buff is wounded, he doesn't generally go where a vehicle could follow. Not an option.

You don’t know what you are talking about!

According to the greatest professional hunter that has ever lived, the one who has balls of brass the size of ocean tankers, who is hated by all other professional hunters, because they are jealous!

And incapable of doing what he does!

Wounded buffalo ALWAYS find a nice open place.

And wait for the above mentioned professional hunter, to walk up to it, and shoot it between the eyes with his 600 Nitro Express!

He would use a bigger gun.

But non is available!

You don’t believe me?

Just watch any of his many videos!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
When a buff is wounded, he doesn't generally go where a vehicle could follow. Not an option.

You don’t know what you are talking about!

According to the greatest professional hunter that has ever lived, the one who has balls of brass the size of ocean tankers, who is hated by all other professional hunters, because they are jealous!

And incapable of doing what he does!

Wounded buffalo ALWAYS find a nice open place.

And wait for the above mentioned professional hunter, to walk up to it, and shoot it between the eyes with his 600 Nitro Express!

He would use a bigger gun.

But non is available!

You don’t believe me?

Just watch any of his many videos!

Now hold on, right there.......

I followed a lone Dugga bull for some hours up the steep mountains in the Zambezi Valley, supplied every Mopane fly with all the sweet tasting sweat they desired, what tsetse thrived in those days were nourished well with O negative flavour and the Courtney boots I wore were tested beyond their capabilities.

We happened upon the equally exhausted beast unleashing upon him the full wrath of our 416 Rigby's downing him where he stood in obvious awe of the valley below.

My first reaction was one of joy followed by a less joyous and understandable question of recovery, to which my elderly and knowledgeable tracker, Sonto, smiling answered.

We had shot the buffalo a mere 10 yards from an old and disused tsetse fly control road which needed some effort to repair but not to difficult, thus enabling a swift, simple and painless recovery of our trophy.

So, MS could be somewhat forgiven for his statement. Our buffalo did in fact choose an "open" area, of sorts; but that is just one example.

Ha! Saeed.

Not buffalo, but I remember sitting on an eland for some hours in the dark listening to the crew hacking a road to get to us for recovery. Not a wounded animal, just shot him a long way from any road.

I swore I saw someone suggest following up in a car, but don't see it now. Maybe I imagined it.

Could his family apply for benefits from the DSC program? I hope Karl Evans is reading.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I swore I saw someone suggest following up in a car, but don't see it now. Maybe I imagined it.

I heard that bloody idiot was doing it.

Mark Sullivan!

Whenever a buffalo goes into thick bush.!

Can't be done. Nor should it even if you could.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Can't be done. Nor should it even if you could.

I am afraid I don't agree, in certain circumstances.

Like the story I heard of a leopard, wounded, and followed on foot.

Jumped up at close quarters, mauled 2, then ran off into the bush.

They followed by truck, and shot it as it was charging from the grass.

quote:

They followed by truck, and shot it as it was charging from the grass.

Never have and never will.

It is paramount that you are properly armed, have trackers who know how to react, and the fewer you are, the safer and more successful it will be.

No rush as following up on wounded DG is like letting a good wine to sit and breathe a while before sipping.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

They followed by truck, and shot it as it was charging from the grass.

Never have and never will.

It is paramount that you are properly armed, have trackers who know how to react, and the fewer you are, the safer and more successful it will be.

No rush as following up on wounded DG is like letting a good wine to sit and breathe a while before sipping.

Remember Jushka?

Attacked twice by a wounded leopard.

Then killed by a lion.

We have always followed wounded animals on foot.

But, in certain circumstances, I have no objection in using the truck.

My utmost aim is that no one gets hurt.

quote:

Remember Jushka?

Yes, I was called in to run his camp on the Luwegu and finished the season while he was in Nairobi hospital after the Lion mauling.

Shit sometimes happens when following up on wounded DG but in most instances, can be attributed to negligence or being too cocksure of oneself.

We all have our methods of approach and am thankfully satisfied with mine.

Over 40 years of hunting.

Several hundreds of dangerous game shot.

Many were followed in extremely bad thickets.

And I have absolutely no objection to using a truck if that is the only option we have to avoid anyone getting hurt.

My pride can take a backseat!

I was in Zambia hunting buffalo when we received this news. It will make you think seriously about being very careful. Even then there is no guaranty. Prayers to the family and friends. RIP sir.

A number of people I know who have been attacked by animals they never knew existed!

Either wounded by other animals, snares, or just being cantankerous!

I know one PH who has never been charged all his life, except by a cow he got too close too without knowing, and it charged him.

He shot it before it could cause any damage.

It was not wounded at all!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Can't be done. Nor should it even if you could.

I am afraid I don't agree, in certain circumstances.

Like the story I heard of a leopard, wounded, and followed on foot.

Jumped up at close quarters, mauled 2, then ran off into the bush.

They followed by truck, and shot it as it was charging from the grass.

In my thinking - be smart or be foolish. I will use a truck for follow up any time anywhere. If it keeps everyone safe, then by all means do it.

Only had one problem with a DG animal - a problem elephant that the chief wanted dealt with asap.

We chased that elephant around for hours one morning, it chased a couple of our trackers, we followed in into and out of a marshy area, waist deep muck. Finally it went into a mopane thicket, and we proceeded very cautiously. It charged us about twenty yards away, PH grabbed the sticks and turned to run away, probably the smartest move.

The elephant stopped, just short of us, then turned away, I used that chance to put a 416, in her brain from across a small room. The PH, jumped, his assistant jumped and they looked at me, why did you shoot then? I replied, you know our rules, if I see a shot and can take it OK, I can, so I did.

On inspection, the cow had a rear leg with a snare around it, made from packing straps. It was deep in her leg, the leg was probably out of joint, as she was limping on that side. She was so pissed off because of the leg, she had been thrown out of the herd, and was taking it out on anyone that happened by.

Followup is not just to relieve the animals suffering, it's also to protect innocent people from aggravated animals. If we pull the trigger on an animal, we have a bit of duty to that animal, as well as the host community, not to let a wounded animal wander about.

Sad to see a PH losing his life doing his job. My condolences to his friends and family.

Mike E frigging snares are a huge menace.

I wonder how many locals get nailed by wounded animals because of them.

I nearly got caught on the edge of a clearing but one of the locals, who may have set it, stopped me just in time, I couldn’t see it at all. No ele there but Kongoni etc.

My only point about using the gari, is that in my experience, a wounded animal does not go where a vehicle could follow and second, you can't shoot from the car in Tanzania and I know of no exception for wounded animals. I question whether it would be legal in Tanzania to intentionally use a vehicle in a follow up. Defer to fulvio on that point.

Most everyone who hunts DG abhors sniping from a distance but relish the idea of getting up "close and personal" and experience that rush of adrenaline.

When the shit hits the fan though there seems to be a general change of mind as the hapless quarry is now in a position to "shoot back".

PHs know of the dangers they are faced with in such situations but most take it in their stride and get on with the job to the best of their ability; most win, a few lose.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
Most everyone who hunts DG abhors sniping from a distance but relish the idea of getting up "close and personal" and experience that rush of adrenaline.

When the shit hits the fan though there seems to be a general change of mind as the hapless quarry is now in a position to "shoot back".

PHs know of the dangers they are faced with in such situations but most take it in their stride and get on with the job to the best of their ability; most win, a few lose.

You mean like Mark Sullivan??

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Reply

My first day in Zim we came across three eles. I wounded one and we followed up. Suddenly it charged out of bushes but its aim was off by a small angle. I raised my rifle but all I could see were trackers jumping in all directions. I shouted to the PH to "shoot it." He completely missed two shots at the whole critter with a .458.

At that point the PH sent me back to the safari car with one of the trackers. We found the bull two days later, dead.

A few days after that I wounded a buffalo. We followed up and found it looking very sick. I killed it with two more shots.

So I'm not sure if there is any consistent rule about letting the client follow up DG. I'm just glad I didn't wound a leopard.

This thread has gone sideways and the most important thing is sympathy to the family.

Indy, I've been on a leopard follow up and you are right. You don't want to experience that.

I agree with lavaca. Sympathy to the family is more important. I am in Zambia at present. What should also be recognised is the heroism of the trackers and game scout. Having spoken to the authors of the report posted earlier on this thread, they wanted to include the word "heroic" but decided it was inappropriate for an official report.
Well, having heard even more detail, I think heroic would have been very appropriate.

The story was quite grisly and upsetting

Trackers are the heroes of all safaris.

They put their trust in people they don’t know, most of the time.

It is wonderful hunting with those you have shared a few safaris with.

We got into long grass with lions mating!!

We could hear the racket going on less than 50 yards from us.

Told our tracker to go back!

The lion finished his business and left, we couldn’t see him.

Our tracker was up a tree.

Which had only one branch growing sideways!

Two meters above the ground!

He said he thought he looked so stupid if the lion came after him sitting there the lion would have died laughing!

Totally agree about trackers. They put their lives in your hands, going in ahead of you tracking an animal that could kill them, with you, behind them, with a rifle that could kill them. I've had the fortune to hunt with the same trackers multiple times and they have confidence I won't shoot them or break and run and leave them hanging. Agree it's nice to hunt with a familiar crew.

Everyone of us will miss and wound if we hunt long enough.
Lack of experienced folks do so much more often.

Missing and wounding consistently,
any shooter NEEDS to figure out why,
and either correct their problems,
or stop shooting at game.

Much more so on DG.

This case proves what the results can be.
Best wishes to the family and trackers.

George