Can someone in the know explain the difference between "hunting" and "killing"? I apologize for being so dense, but I cannot figure out the difference.

Thanks,
Casey

You could not be farther from the truth (and I bet you are about to hear about it too!)

Buffalo are very tough. In addition to being tough, they are none too friendly. No matter why you are shooting him, you need to use a rifle adequate for the job at hand...i.e. a 375 or larger.

Hunting for sport or culling the Buffalo has the exact same goal. Kill the Buffalo as quickly as possible with as little amount of suffering to him.

A 308 or 7mm is not sufficient to do the job. A buffalo shot with this small a caliber will not expire very quickly. You stand to loose the Buff or risk getting injured while sorting him out.

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Wendell Reich

Hunter's Quest International
wendell@huntersquest.com

[This message has been edited by Buffalobwana (edited 05-10-2002).]

That is exactly what I was thinking, but there are people on this site that say you can get by with the smaller calibers if you are only culling buffalo instead of hunting them. I admit to have no experience with buffalo hunting so I am confused here.

Casey

Let's say someone told me that I am going to hunt one buffalo and then cull a bunch of buffalo, I can use a 7mm for one and a .416 for the other.

If I had to make this decision, I would rather hunt the one buffalo with a 7mm and cull with the .416.

While hunting one buffalo I could take my time and get close and get a properly lined up shot (and then as many follow-up shots as possible).

In a culling situation (especially in a herd), I would think the ability to set-up your shot and to make follow-up shots would be more limited.

Just my thoughts.

Regards,

Terry

quote:

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Originally posted by CASEY:
Wendell,

That is exactly what I was thinking, but there are people on this site that say you can get by with the smaller calibers if you are only culling buffalo instead of hunting them. I admit to have no experience with buffalo hunting so I am confused here.

Casey

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They are in the minority, that is for sure. I think maybe one or two guys arguing the marginable rounds (45-70, buckshot, slugs etc.) might have led you to believe this.

While I know you can kill a Buff with a 7 mm or 308, I don't personally plan on ever shooting one with anything less than a 375. Actually I like my .450 just fine for this job.

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Wendell Reich

Hunter's Quest International
wendell@huntersquest.com

Actually I think he was culling single Buffalo and used the only gun he had available at the time. He will readily admit it wasn't his first choice.

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Wendell Reich

Hunter's Quest International
wendell@huntersquest.com

I had two choices, stay in camp and drink up their Whiskey or use one of the lesser rifles, not an easy decission...Head shots set up a very close range with solids and its risky business I suppose. Most shots taken very near the truck and the whole idea is to get the quota shot as required by law, it is a gov. program. It is not hunting, it is not fair chase, it is merely killing.

Many Buffalo were shot up by Hoof and mouth cull hunters at one time by all kinds of calibers, whatever the citizen hunters had, and the wounded bulls were followed up by professional hunters hired by the game depts...

When I "hunt" Buffalo, I hunt them on there ground and on their terms...I use a 450-400, 404, 375 H&H, 9.3x62 or 416 Rem. and I recommend a 40 cal. everybody here knows that. Should the ocassion arise to give me an opertunity to hunt Buffalo and for some reason all I could use would be a 7x57 then I would do so again. I love to hunt the black bulls and I am willing to risk all to do so and have...No different than a race car driver, bull rider or pro ball player.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I had two choices, stay in camp and drink up their Whiskey or use one of the lesser rifles, not an easy decision...Head shots set up at very close range with solids and its risky business I suppose. Most shots taken very near the truck and the whole idea is to get the quota shot as required by law, it is a gov. program. It is not hunting, it is not fair chase, it is merely killing.

Many Buffalo were shot up by Hoof and mouth cull hunters at one time by all kinds of calibers, whatever the citizen hunters had, and the wounded bulls were followed up by professional hunters hired by the game depts...

When I "hunt" Buffalo, I hunt them on their ground and on their terms...I use a 450-400, 404, 375 H&H, 9.3x62 or 416 Rem. and I recommend a 40 cal. everybody here knows that.

Should the ocassion arise to give me an opertunity to hunt Buffalo and for some reason all I could use would be a 7x57 then I suppose that I would do so again. I love to hunt the black bulls and I am willing to risk all to do so, and have. I would do it again for anyone that's willing to pay my trophy fee and license fees..

No different than a race car driver, bull rider or pro ball player.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Another thing to consider is the "quota" system mentioned earlier. All it would take is one screw up and a fellow would wish that he had the larger bore. In culling the odds are increased greatly of a problem.

The "ethical" part of it sure ought to come into play. We all ought to strive to give hunting a good name. I use .375 H&H on deer and love it, yes I've been looked at sideways when they see my belt loop. It's a wonderful cartdrige. I've also seen hunters use 22-250 on deer. I tell them I wouldn't do it (although its leagal in Nebr.) and I leave it at that. On smaller cartridges you do not have an UP side, but on larger bores you have all that BOTTOM side that you don't have to worry about.

Regards,

Coon

It always appeared to me that smaller calibers were used for "cull" hunts just to save money, compared to the big bores. I'm not sure that is much of a consideration nowadays. Nor much need for culling of buffalo except on fenced ranches. Why cull when you can sell them?

quote:

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Originally posted by CASEY:
Wendell,

That is exactly what I was thinking, but there are people on this site that say you can get by with the smaller calibers if you are only culling buffalo instead of hunting them. I admit to have no experience with buffalo hunting so I am confused here.

Casey

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Casey,
There is a difference between culling, and hunting Buffalo. Not the Buffalo, but the method of shooting them.
Culling is usually done from the hunting car, sometimes at night with lights, and is usually done by several people at the same time, confuseing the members of the herd. This fact gives the shooter time to place his shots very precicely, so he can use a smaller caliber rifle. One reason some use the smaller rifles is the amount of shooting,with less recoil, and the cost of ammo is much less. How would you like to cull buffalo with a 470 NE @ $280 per twenty round box, not to mention the shoulder damage? Make no mistake culling is not hunting! One other difference is, there is no trophy fee to pay if one is lost, and buffalo are not dangerous in the culling thing, simply because of the car, and the range at which these animals are shot. 30-06, 303, and 308 with hard ball ammo is cheap, and shoot through is common, but that only gets two for one in this shooting, and that is the whole purpose of culling, to thin the populations, and for meat.

If, however, you are trophy hunting the Cape Buffalo, the drill is to single out a particular bull, and hit him from close range, while standing on your feet, and backed up by only one other person. In this case the bullet must be placed right, and must do the maximum damage to vital organs, from any angle,and have the where with all to defend you, and the other members of your party. Here if you wound,and lose, you pay, and if he decides to fight you don't want to depend on a little rifle to get you out of trouble. It's the same animal, in both cases, but the shooting is different!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

I do believe that we Americans have a tendency to get carried away with this big caliber thing, myself included...the old timers got by with the 303 and 7x57 pretty well and the Lions of Tsavo bought the farm with a couple of well placed 303's...Bell did OK and died of old age...

Bottom line is now and forever will be nothing takes the place of good shooting.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com